BrainKing - Panouri de discuţii (Backgammon)

Subiectul: Plakato

Ok I lied. I have another question.

When bearing off, if I become pinned, does that stop me from bearing off my other checkers? Or can I still bear off my other checkers and only the pinned checker must of course wait to be freed?

25. Februarie 2008, 17:24:09

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Subiectul: Plakato & Autopass

Has autopass been implemented for Plakato? I'm playing 15 or so games of Plakato, and none of them seem to have autopass enabled; but I do not know whether that is because Plakato is in the class of games that do not have autopass, or whether that's because none of my opponents have autopass enabled.

25. Februarie 2008, 17:25:15

Carl

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Subiectul: Re: Plakato & Autopass

AbigailII: I have it enabled.

25. Februarie 2008, 17:31:41

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Subiectul: Re: Plakato & Autopass

Carl: Yeah, I checked my settings - it was disabled (I guess that when a new game is added, everyone "autopass" settings for that game is set to disabled, even if the player prefers to play with autopass). I had turned on the "Select this option if you want to use auto pass" when creating the invitations, but I guess that was silently ignored.

25. Februarie 2008, 17:49:02

coan.net

Subiectul: Grasshopper

Is any Bishop (or higher) interested in playing on the Grasshopper site team tournament?

The site team tournament starts in about 4 days, and there still needs to be at least 1 more team to join. (a team of 4 players)

My fellowship, The Gammon Cube is looking for 2 more players.

If you are interested, PLEASE come and join our Grasshopper team:

◙ The Gammon Cube ◙

25. Februarie 2008, 17:51:01

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Subiectul: Portes

On brainking.info, Fencer says that he plans to three games that make up Tavli. Portes is one of them, and he says Brainking has it already, because it's just backgammon without the doubling cube. That's not quite correct. The rules of Portes state that the winner of the opening roll rerolls. A subtle difference, meaning that the player going first may start with doubles, which is impossible in regular backgammon. (There's also a slight difference in counting points, but that's only relevant for point matches).

Of course, it means that implementing Portes will not be difficult, as it's almost the same. Just not exactly.

25. Februarie 2008, 17:57:42

joshi tm

How does Tavli work?

25. Februarie 2008, 18:27:53

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Subiectul: Re: Portes

AbigailII: It is almost correct.

What I mean is that there will be no standalone game called Portes.

25. Februarie 2008, 19:53:08

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Subiectul: Re: Portes

Fencer: Will there be a stand alone game with the same rules IE opening doubles possible, as Portes?

25. Februarie 2008, 19:59:52

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Subiectul: Re: Portes

Czuch: Nope.

26. Februarie 2008, 02:28:11

Sylfest Strutle

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Subiectul: Fevga

From the rules at bkgm.com: "You are not allowed to block all six points in your starting table."

Does this apply in the middle of a move?
If I for instance occupy all the points in the starting quadrant except the 19-point and have a bunch of extra checkers on the 24 point, then roll 55. Am I allowed to move 24-14, 24-14, even though the moved checkers will temporarily complete the prime on their way?

26. Februarie 2008, 09:13:35

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Subiectul: Re: Fevga

fakar10: Yes, it does.

26. Februarie 2008, 17:21:14

dresali

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Subiectul: Plakato images not working?

Modificat de dresali (26. Februarie 2008, 17:33:50)

I just placed a black stone on top of a white stone in Plakato
and the corresponding image isnt displayed correctly.
maybe its a temporary prob, but i just thought i'd mention it.

Plakoto (Stingette vs. dresali) after black's 3rd move
http://i.brainking.com/back/bpudo40h-2.gif -> 404 - Not Found

Edit: Thats odd, my opponent seems to see it, but i dont, while i see everything else (its the same after refreshing the page multiple times)

Edit 2: Ok nevermind, it all works now, probably some odd local problem or something, sorry for the bother ;-)

Edit 3: it only works when i am not logged in, cause then a different image is used, the above mentioned file is not found.

26. Februarie 2008, 17:32:40

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Subiectul: Re: Plakato images not working?

dresali: I am also having problems with that game not loading correctly....

26. Februarie 2008, 17:34:49

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Subiectul: Re: Plakato images not working?

dresali: The images are not available in the bigger size yet.

26. Februarie 2008, 17:39:42

dresali

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Subiectul: Re: Plakato images not working?

Fencer: ah, thank you :)

26. Februarie 2008, 21:23:49

Thad

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Subiectul: Autopass bug?

I have a prime block in my home row and my opponent just doubled while on the bar. I accepted. Now it's his turn. Shouldn't autopass fire and make it my turn? Here's the game, although things might not be evident once he takes his turn:

Backgammon (Thad vs. sascham)

26. Februarie 2008, 21:44:39

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Subiectul: Re: Autopass bug?

Thad: The double probably threw the autopass out of whack. I wouldn't worry about it, just sit back and collect your winnings. Maybe he'll get what he deserves for that double, and you'll gammon him ;-)

26. Februarie 2008, 21:47:57

Thad

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Subiectul: Re: Autopass bug?

alanback: Yeah, I'm not too worried about it, I just wanted to ask here before I reported it on the bug tracker page.

26. Februarie 2008, 22:13:25

grenv

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Subiectul: Re: Autopass bug?

Thad: Seems like you should redouble

26. Februarie 2008, 22:39:04

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Subiectul: Re: Autopass bug?

grenv: isnt that a bit too much advice for an ongoing game?

26. Februarie 2008, 22:40:21

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Subiectul: Re: Autopass bug?

Thad: Fencer might not consider it a bug, but it should work the way you described, I would report it as a bug!

26. Februarie 2008, 23:07:27

grenv

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Subiectul: Re: Autopass bug?

Czuch: hmm. maybe so... i thought it was obvious, but could be wrong.

26. Februarie 2008, 23:07:46

Thad

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Subiectul: Re: Autopass bug?

Czuch: It's a 7-point match. The cube is now at 8, so the advice is moot.

I'll report it as a bug. Priority 1, right? j/k. ;-)

26. Februarie 2008, 23:07:59

grenv

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and i can't delete it unfortunately. I thought delete was an option.

26. Februarie 2008, 23:11:21

Thad

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Subiectul: Re:

grenv: Pawns can't delete posts. I had the same trouble when I downgraded my membership before.

26. Februarie 2008, 23:11:48

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Subiectul: Re:

grenv: If you edit and delete all the text, the message will be deleted.

26. Februarie 2008, 23:12:14

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Subiectul: Re:

alanback: Don't know about the pawn thing.

26. Februarie 2008, 23:12:15

Thad

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Subiectul: Re: Autopass bug?

It's reported: http://brainking.com/en/ReadBug?bgi=1499

27. Februarie 2008, 00:03:41

Subiectul: Fevga: Passing opponent's starting point

In this game I first have to move my checker on 1 past my opponent's starting point. I roll 6-3; either 1-7 or 1-3 would move my checker past the opponent's starting point.

Yet the system doesn't allow me to play 1-3, insisting I play 1-7. Am I missing a rule, or is this a bug?

12. Martie 2008, 18:23:40

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Subiectul: MATFixer

Modificat de toedder (12. Martie 2008, 18:46:51)

To those of you who want to import backgammon matches from BrainKing into external software and that don't want to wait for the bugs to be fixed: I didn't want to be patient too and so I wrote a small Java application as a temporary workaround. It fixes bugs 1181 and 1534 (But can't do anything about 1533) . In case someone wants to try it, here's a link: http://toedder.net/bk/matfixer.zip.

12. Martie 2008, 21:40:14

nabla

Subiectul: Re: MATFixer

Gordon Shumway: That is GREAT ! Your tool seems to work perfectly and is very easy to use. Especially helpful is the possibility to fix many files in one batch.

Thank you so much, this gives me some motivation to play more backgammon on Brainking again !

12. Martie 2008, 21:46:04

nabla

Subiectul: Re: MATFixer

Gordon Shumway: Two more thoughts :

- As it is written in Java, it should be easy for Fencer to integrate it in his .mat generation code.

- Errr... do you have any plans to fix the Nackgammon files as well ?

12. Martie 2008, 22:41:48

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Subiectul: Re: MATFixer

Modificat de toedder (14. Martie 2008, 14:35:01)

nabla: Thank you so much, this gives me some motivation to play more backgammon on Brainking again !

Great to hear that this is so helpful!

As it is written in Java, it should be easy for Fencer to integrate it in his .mat generation code.

It might be easy to integrate it, but it would be very bad style as it would mean that BrainKing first produces a broken mat code and then reads and manipulates it to remove the bugs, instead of not producing them in the first place. And I don't even think fixing the bugs right where they are would be any harder

Errr... do you have any plans to fix the Nackgammon files as well ?

Not yet, as I don't really play Nackgammon (so far). I've just looked at a Nackgammon mat file from dailygammon.com at it looks kind of interesting though weird. The first move is always an "illegal play" which sets up the Nackgammon position and the first dice roll, the rest is exactly the same as for Backgammon. I just can't really make too much sense out of this "illegal play" string. Maybe you can? I'll attach a few examples.

All I can tell at first glance is that I would need to analyse the match and game data more seriously than I do now


 5 point match

 Game 1
 Rich In Bunly Goodness : 0          natureseeker : 0
  1) 12: Illegal play (5;0;1;0;0;natureseeker;Rich In Bunly Goodness;\
        0;0;0;1;0;0;-2;-2;0;0;0;4;0;3;0;0;0;-4;4;0;0;0;-3;0;-4;0;0;0;2;2;0;6;3;)\
        63: 24/18 23/20

 [...]

 Game 2
 Rich In Bunly Goodness : 0          natureseeker : 1
  1) 12: Illegal play (5;0;1;0;0;natureseeker;Rich In Bunly Goodness;\
        0;1;0;1;0;0;-2;-2;0;0;0;4;0;3;0;0;0;-4;4;0;0;0;-3;0;-4;0;0;0;2;2;0;6;4;) \
        64: 24/18 24/20

[...]

 Game 3
 Rich In Bunly Goodness : 0          natureseeker : 3
  1) 12: Illegal play (5;0;1;0;0;natureseeker;Rich In Bunly Goodness;\
       0;3;0;1;0;0;-2;-2;0;0;0;4;0;3;0;0;0;-4;4;0;0;0;-3;0;-4;0;0;0;2;2;0;2;1;)\
        21: 23/21 21/20

[...]

 Game 4
 Rich In Bunly Goodness : 0          natureseeker : 4
  1)                                 12: Illegal play \
        (5;0;1;0;1;Rich In Bunly Goodness;natureseeker;\
        1;0;4;1;0;0;-2;-2;0;0;0;4;0;3;0;0;0;-4;4;0;0;0;-3;0;-4;0;0;0;2;2;0;6;1;)
  2) 61: 13/7 8/7                    11: 23/22 23/22 22/21 22/21

A lot of numbers are the same in every line, so I guess that this is just the routine position setup. the last two digits are the dice rolled. But all that stuff in the beginning?

13. Martie 2008, 00:40:02

playBunny

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Subiectul: Re: MATFixer

Gordon Shumway: The segment within brackets is parsed as a Snowie .txt file. The following is taken from import.c of the GnuBg source code.

/*
 * Snowie .txt files
 *
 * The files are a single line with fields separated by
 * semicolons. Fields are numeric, except for player names.
 *
 * Field no    meaning
 * 0           length of match (0 in money games)
 * 1           1 if Jacoby enabled, 0 in match play or disabled
 * 2           Don't know, all samples had 0. Maybe it's Nack gammon or
 *            some other variant?
 * 3           Don't know. It was one in all money game samples, 0 in
 *            match samples
 * 4           Player on roll 0 = 1st player
 * 5,6         Player names
 * 7           1 = Crawford game
 * 8,9         Scores for player 0, 1
 * 10          Cube value
 * 11          Cube owner 1 = player on roll, 0 = centred, -1 opponent
 * 12          Chequers on bar for player on roll
 * 13..36      Points 1..24 from player on roll's point of view
 *            0 = empty, positive nos. for player on roll, negative
 *            for opponent
 * 37          Chequers on bar for opponent
 * 38.39       Current roll (0,0 if not rolled)
 *
 */

13. Martie 2008, 10:04:52

nabla

Subiectul: Re: MATFixer

Gordon Shumway:
It might be easy to integrate it, but it would be very bad style as it would mean that BrainKing first produces a broken mat code and then reads and manipulates it to remove the bugs, instead of not producing them in the first place. And I don't even think fixing the bugs right where they are would be any harder

Shshshsh ! This is what I was trying to subliminally suggest

A lot of numbers are the same in every line, so I guess that this is just the routine position setup. the last two digits are the dice rolled. But all that stuff in the beginning?

Yes, it is a routine position setup. I didn't know about the Snowie .txt format though, and thought that inserting the same string everytime would do it. The dice rolled shouldn't be of importance since they are given with the next move anyway. Having the good values in the first places is probably more important than I thought though.

13. Martie 2008, 19:09:54

playBunny

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Subiectul: Re: MATFixer

Gordon Shumway: Might I suggest that you edit your post and split those long lines in the [pre] block? Now that we understand what they're about, they don't need to be correctly formatted. As they are they force the page to be scrollably too wide.

14. Martie 2008, 13:59:03

wetware

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Subiectul: Re: MATFixer

Gordon Shumway: Thanks very much for the workaround!. I haven't tried it yet, but it sounds like it does an admirable job.

I'd long ago given up hope of ever seeing a fix, and never found the time to create my own .mat reformatter.

14. Martie 2008, 14:37:54

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Subiectul: Re: MATFixer

playBunny: Thank you for the infos on Snowie .txt format! I think I'll integrate a Nackgammon fix on the weekend. About the pre tags: I hope they're now short enough. In Firefox 2 the scrollbar appears inside the post, so it didn't screw up the page for me...

14. Martie 2008, 15:11:55

playBunny

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Subiectul: Re: MATFixer

Gordon Shumway: Thanks, the Internet Explorer forum's back to normal!

You're welcome. I thought it was overlkill for posting here but if you'd like me to send you the full text of import.c that can be done.

14. Martie 2008, 16:55:49

coan.net

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Subiectul: Plakoto & Fevga Strategies

I was wondering if anyone has any strategies for the 2 new backgammon games that they would like to share.

17. Martie 2008, 17:34:40

coan.net

Subiectul: Fevga

Fevga Strategy:

1. After you move your first piece to your opponents side, it is best to try to get it to the #5 or #6 spot on the board. At first, I tried to keep in the opponents starting block, but the rules say they they can not block all 6 of those spaces - so there will always be an opening there (so like an invisible piece). So moving your one piece to the #5 or #6 space will not allow your opponent to block anywhere on their starting side of the board.

2. At the same time, try to make a block of 6 spaces - like #5 - #10 on your side of the board. Of course now I try to block #5 & #6 as quickly as possible since I find those spaces to be the 2 most important when starting the game.

3. In a recent game, I ignored my (2) above and went strait to getting as many pieces to my opponents side - this has led me to almost putting a 6 space block on THEIR side of the board, possible blocking the rest of their starting pieces from advancing. If you are able to get some good rolls, if you can put 4-5 of your pieces over on your opponents side early - it can be very good for you.

OK, those are 3 of the strategies that I have started to use in the Fevga game. Any others have any tips?

17. Martie 2008, 19:19:50

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Subiectul: Re: MATFixer

Gordon Shumway: OK, I didn't have the time yet to fix Nackgammon mat files as I was playing too much poker, but I fixed a small bug. So if you experience problems while converting mat files, try if it is fixed by the new version: MATFixer.

22. Martie 2008, 15:58:31

saeco

Nichts

25. Martie 2008, 01:12:30

Carl

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Backgammon is dead,long live tavli.

25. Martie 2008, 01:51:44