I said I had a winning streak and I gained 62 points -- did not mean to imply any cause and effect beyond the fact that all the rating adjustments were positive.

alanback: thats only 4.769 points per game average which makes sense with a max of 8 for you alanback.
Very good going and a well deserved #1 spot I say

wayney: Thanks -- I was lucky against some very able opponents!

alanback: LOL
That's certainly more of an achivement than beating the disabled ones if that's what you mean alan :)

JamesHird: And that remark is supposed to mean what exactly?

JamesHird: LOL funny one James.
I plan to end that winning streak although I am off to a slow start.
I think he bribed the dice Gods

wayney: good luck wayney. You will need it.
I hope you are able to pull off a win

wayney: It's shaping up as an interesting game. Too late to break the streak, though!

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alanback: Gotcha !!!!
I now have a win against the best Backgammon player on Brainking:)

wayney: Not the best, just the one with the highest current ranking :-) good game!

Anybody win a hypergammon match with nothing but double sixes?

We have a new ratings king -- but for how long? ;-)

until he starts finishing the lost games...

Pedro Martínez: What is that, 23 straight wins? That strains even my credulity. However, a day of reckoning will come :)

I just took a look at penteman's unfinished games, about the first 15 are sure losers. Well, that tarnishes his accomplishment a tad ;-)

I find this a bit stupid if it's true..... I mean to delay some lost games, in order to be first for a while.......
Perhaps Fencer or anyone else has a secret prize for the 1st at Backgammon on the 1st of May. It maybe 100.000$ ............. So he knows what he is doing.......

This happens in many of the games unfortunately.

grenv: Stupid me, I just play the games. I had never thought of delaying them while losing. An interesting way to achieve a high rating, but when the crash comes it'll be a swift one. Holding the top spot is the trick. I was top for one day in Extinction Chess and am still the top rated in Dark Chess after a year. Though I think that won't be the case much longer. Still nice being the top rated while it happens. If I win a few more games my Backgammon BKR will pass my Dark Chess rating.

alanback: Yes I noticed that too after finding he'd stopped making moves on the games he was loosing aginst me then I saw all his unfinished games and realised what he was doing. Sheeeeesh! it's v. annoying.

maybe he hopes the longer he delays the more chance he has of winning by forfeits.
If he is actually intentionally not playing some games while playing others, Fencer should
1. Give 1st and final warning
2. Force a forfeit

JamesHird:
If he is actually intentionally not playing some games while playing others, Fencer should
1. Give 1st and final warning
2. Force a forfeit

I disagree in both 1) and 2).........
He has every right to play whenever he wants in whatever game he wants. He has also the right not to play at all.......

Plus look on the bright side - since he held up losing all his games, his rating will be worse then if he would have lost the games in the first place - so they are only hurting themselves & their rating.

You must be kidding, JH...

JH, he won't win any games through forfeiting on the games he's not moving on unless the other person resigns the game.
Although I'm not impressed by the way he's 'playing' the BKR system I have to agree with Chessmaster1000 in that it's up to him how he plays his games. I guess the only disspointment is that it's not playing in the 'spirit' of gamesmanship.
BigBadWolf makes a good point, I only hope that I get my 8 points for each win and not 1 point because his BKR has fallen so low from all the losses he'll have taken by the time he finishes his games
Shouldn't really single him out as many people do this but this is the first time I've played anyone who's so obviously working the system, I guess he's on a mission of some sorts

BIG BAD WOLF: since he held up losing all his games, his rating will be worse then if he would have lost the games in the first place

If it's who I think you mean he is now 389 in the league table. Nearly as bad as me!

If so, and you are not already a member, please feel free to request membership to join

***Bry's Backgammon Fellowship***

The majority of top Backgammon players are members. There are regular tournaments, usually with over 40 top players competing.

The standard is very good and all winners are acknowledged on the main Fellowship page.

There is no pressure to chat or join any tournaments. It's just good competitive fun.

BIG BAD WOLF:
True your better to lose first,just dislike everyone when the hide in the basement due to losing.

Marfitalu: I don't see any "bug" there, everything seems to be perfectly OK.

Marfitalu: she rolled 64

she rolled a 6-4, and you rolled a 4-1 in the previous move

correct and you moved 7-3, 6-5 in other words 4-1

easy to do

even if B Itch had to make another forced move of 1, 21-22 would have been nice and safe anyway so even if you were right about the dice, still would not have made any difference

Marfitalu:
1st roll - Marfitalu: 25, moves 13-11, 13-8
2nd roll - B Itch: 22, moves 2x 19-21 2x 12-14
3rd roll - Marfitalu: 24, moves 11-9, 13-9
4th roll - B Itch: 55, moves 2x 17-22, 2x 12-17
5th roll - Marfitalu: 61, moves 24-18, 13-12
6th roll - B Itch: 24, moves bar-2, 17-21
7th roll - Marfitalu: 65, moves 13-7, 12-7
8th roll - B Itch: 43, moves 14-18, 18-21
9th roll - Marfitalu: 43, passes
10th roll - B Itch: 41, moves 1-5, 1-2
11th roll - Marfitalu: 33, passes
12th roll - B Itch: 35, moves 21-24, 19-24
13th roll - Marfitalu: 51, moves bar-5
14th roll - B Itch: 14, moves 14-15, 15-19
15th roll - Marfitalu: 24, moves bar-23, 20-16
16th roll - B Itch: 65, moves 5-11, 11-16
17th roll - Marfitalu: 41, passes
18th roll - B Itch: 26, moves 2-4, 4-10
19th roll - Marfitalu: 24, moves bar-23, 8-4
20th roll - B Itch: 35, moves 2-5, 5-10
21st roll - Marfitalu: 24, moves 6-4, 9-5
22nd roll - B Itch: 34, moves 16-19, 10-14
23rd roll - Marfitalu: 46, moves 9-5, 8-2
24th roll - B Itch: 51, moves 10-15, 14-15
25th roll - Marfitalu: 56, moves 8-3, 8-2
26th roll - B Itch: 64, moves 15-21, 15-19
27th roll - Marfitalu: 41, moves 7-3, 6-5
28th roll - B Itch: 64, moves 17-21

Fencer : Let me see if I have your stated intentions right.

You are going to add options to the Backgammon that already exsists here that will enable people to play with the doubling cube or continue playing the game as it is now without creating a whole new category of Backgammon called "Pro Backgammon"?

Walter Montego: I was talking to Fencer the other day about this.

What he would NOT like to do is create a different game for the (Pro) "cubed" gammon games - since it would take more stats and stuff, plus it would just multiply into a version for the other gammon games (Pro Nack, Pro Race, Pro Crowded, Pro Hyper.)

What he was thinking if I understand it correctly, is just add a new option for the current backgammon game.

Option like: Points using the cube: (3-21)

That will go along with the current non-cube options of: (1)Normal game (2) wins match (3)points match (4) games match.

Doing it this way will make it more easy to add to each game type rather then having to create new games.

= = = = =

My suggestion is if it is done this way, is if possible, put the point total next to the name (So instead of just saying "Backgammon", mabe have it say "Backgammon (5)" - meaning it is a 5 point using the cube match.

BIG BAD WOLF: there are also plenty of other options if you wish to play Pro Backgammon. Just play it on another site. No need to leave here but you might find some other sites good too.
Gold Token
Its Your Turn
Daily Gammon

Here are some notes that I wrote up awhile back about the double cube. If you see anything below that is wrong, or needs added - please let me know!

= = = = = = = = =

Some random notes about double cube:

Good match point games would be 3, 5, 7, 9, 11, 15, 21


Scoring:

1) Winning a single game is worth 1 point.

2) IF you bear off all your men BEFORE your opponent has borne off any, then that is called a "gammon" and you score double points (2 points if cube is still on 1)

3) IF you bear off all your men and your opponent still has one or more men either on the bar or in your home area (6 places nearest where you bear off), then that is called a "backgammon" and you score triple points (3 points if cube is still on 1)

NOTE: As long as the person has borne off 1 man, even if now some of their pieces are on the bar - it is NOT considered a gammon or backgammon - since at least 1 piece had been borne off.



Double Cube: 1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64

1) Either player can decided to offer the first double (to 2 points) At that point the opponenet has the option to accept (bringing the game worth to 2 points, or decline - and forfeit the current game for 1 point. If they accept, then only the opponenet will have the option to re-double - bringing the game total worth up to 4 points, if their opponent accepts.

2) Double cube is NOT AN OPTION on the very first turn. So if a person wins the "roll off", they do not have the option to offer the double. The person who lost the roll off will then have first option to offer the double.

3) If a person is 1 point away from winning, there is NO POINT in asking them if they want to double - since 1 point will win the game for them. (IYT still asks if they want to double at this point and it annoys many many users!)

4) When the double cube reaches the point where it will win the game for a person, there is NO POINT in having the option of doubling anymore for the player. So if it is a 5 point match, and the cube jumps to 8, then there is no need to offer it anymore.



Crawford Round:

1) If either player reaches a score which is only 1 point away from winning the match, the next game is played as a Crawford Round. In a Crawford round, the double cube is NOT USED and the winner will only score the standard 1 point. Crawford Round only last for 1 game. After that 1 game, the double cube can then again be used for the rest of the match.



Other Things needed:

1) Need a way to resign game for MAXIMUM cube value without resigning the game (to help speed things up) So if I still have men on the bar and try to resign, it would be for 3 points. If I had not borne off any men and resign, it would be for 2 points. If I have at least borne off 1 man and resign, it would be worth 1 point. (values are for when cube is still on 1)

So possible when they try to resign a game, a "are you sure - this resign will cost you X points" should come up so they don't think they are resigning just 1 point when they may be resigning 2 or 3 points.


2) Need a way to resign COMPLETE MATCH


3) So basicly when the turn comes to a player, they will have the options to: Roll Dice, Double Cube, Resign game (for current max value), or Resign complete match. Plus I guess the current options of a draw of complete match would also be needed.

= = = = = = = = =
Plus if you scroll back far enough, Alanback made a pretty good post about the subject, which I'll repost here:

A doubling cube is an object used to record the current value of a game that has been doubled one or more times. It's shaped like a die and has the numbers 2, 4, 8, 16, 32 and 64 on its six faces. A player who wishes to double the value of the game picks up the doubling cube before he rolls his dice, and offers it to his opponent with the side labelled 2 facing up. If the opponent accepts the double, he "owns" the cube and places it on his side of the board. The owner of the cube can choose to double at any later time when it is his turn, before he rolls the dice. He would offer it to his opponent with the "4" facing up. The original doubler then owns the cube, and can double again on his turn, and so on.

Here is an explanation of the doubling cube and of gammon and backgammon from Backgammon Galore!

I forgot to mention in an earlier post that multipoint matches would require the system to recognize gammon and backgammon as well.


Doubling
Backgammon is played for an agreed stake per point. Each game starts at one point. During the course of the game, a player who feels he has a sufficient advantage may propose doubling the stakes. He may do this only at the start of his own turn and before he has rolled the dice.
A player who is offered a double may refuse, in which case he concedes the game and pays one point. Otherwise, he must accept the double and play on for the new higher stakes. A player who accepts a double becomes the owner of the cube and only he may make the next double.

Subsequent doubles in the same game are called redoubles. If a player refuses a redouble, he must pay the number of points that were at stake prior to the redouble. Otherwise, he becomes the new owner of the cube and the game continues at twice the previous stakes. There is no limit to the number of redoubles in a game.



Gammons and Backgammons
At the end of the game, if the losing player has borne off at least one checker, he loses only the value showing on the doubling cube (one point, if there have been no doubles). However, if the loser has not borne off any of his checkers, he is gammoned and loses twice the value of the doubling cube. Or, worse, if the loser has not borne off any of his checkers and still has a checker on the bar or in the winner's home board, he is backgammoned and loses three times the value of the doubling cube.

Just so I make sure I have this correct, here are the current "problems" with the backgammon game.

1) If a player can, they have to use both dice. If that requires him moving a certain piece first to make sure the 2nd dice can be used, it must be done. If a piece can be moved to block the use of the 2nd dice, that move should be forbidden so both dice are used.

2) If A player can only use one of this dice, but has a choice of which dice to use - they must use the higher of the 2 dice.

Is that correct or am I missing anything?

BIG BAD WOLF: A draw is not a possible outcome of a game of Backgammon and I believe should not be allowed under any circumstances. I feel the same way about this in Keryo Pente too.

As for resigning a game. As it is played now with each game being valued at one point, it doesn't matter. If gammons and backgammons are counted it will make a difference when playing a match and the match is where it takes more than one point to win it. The problem with playing a resignation as giving the opponent the maximum value would be to cause the games to continue on when a player knows he's going to lose, but not get gammoned. One of the sites listed James Hird, I believe Daily Gammon, has a way around this. When someone resigns, the opponent gets to decide on the game's value. If the resigner is asking for a one point loss and the winning player thinks he has a chance at a gammon, the resignation is not allowed or the resigner must accept the two point loss. This option should keep a moving along.

BIG BAD WOLF: I believe you have it correct, and I also agree with Walter M's posting that there is no such thing as a draw and he raises a valid point on resigning. I reckon the person being offered the resignation should have the right of decline at 1 point if they feel they would have got a gammon.

i think resigning being worth the maximum is a good compromise. It may take a few moves to rule out a gammon on some occasions, but it would be much quicker than not allowing a resignation at all.

I would love to see the doubling cube used here, but please don't call the resulting game "Pro" Backgammon -- it's just backgammon, plain and simple. The game without the cube might be called "Amateur" backgammon, but that's another issue. Please don't import the ridiculous ItsYourTurn terminology here!

I agree......But it doesn't matter.....

Sorry for sounding pedantic, but backgammon started out centuries ago WITHOUT the cube and it was used purely for entertainment, not for financial gains - the latter started happening when the cube was introduced. Calling it "pro" may be ugly, but it is the truth, there is no hiding from it...

From what I understand, unless someone really comes up with a good reason not to do it..

I think his plan is to just introduce the new option to use a cube in the current backgammon game (and then hopefully in Nack, Race, Crowded, and Hyper) - where a user can choose to play a cubed game for something like 3-21 points.

So at this point, I don't think there is going to be 2 "versions" of the games - just an additional option to the regular game.

Anyone have any suggestions or comments? Post them now so Fencer can read them! :-)

BIG BAD WOLF: Sounds fine. There are no financial gains anyway :)

Marfitalu: OK, maybe I should have used my native tongue and said Tavli instead :) What matters is the board and the piece arrangement... Anyway, there will be no Pro Backgammon, just an extra option in our regular favourite...