thats amazing.Funny how we choose without thinking,at a young age.I rebuilt my first 440mag when I was 16.Then it seemed like fun....now its still fun and a living:)

Friday, October 5, 1984 I got my first Macintosh. I had been programming on the Apple IIe before that. I rolled out The Sniper, my chess program, in 1986 when I was 19.

chess has really been replaced by electronic toys in the younger generation..it's too bad.

Computers aren't really important in any of these games as they are exactly that, games, reacreational activities for humans.

I don`t think that chess can be "solved" anytime,but the chessprograms today are very much better than in 1989.It is only a question of (short) time that we have computer as worldchampion.

Strange how black has a better winning percentage in both gothic and regular chess.

how long have you been writing programs,Ed?

Statistics
White won 1931 (48.19 %)
Black won 1992 (49.71 %)
Draws 84 (2.09 %)

4007 total

To solve chess, a computer the size of the universe is needed. There is a very famous paper on this, I forget where it is. There are more chess positions than atoms in the universe, so with "information density" such that a solution to one position could fit on one atom (an impossibility) you would need a universe to solve chess.

great strides have been made since 1989, as demonstrated in the difference between the Kasparov matches with Deep Thought and Deep Blue. Also, now that checkers is on its way to being solved, fat chance beating Chinook again! I wonder if chess will ever be solved..

WOW..over 4000 games....and not a single one played by pimple!!

Go to "New Game", select Gothic, then "Show Rules". Last time I looked there was over 4000 I think.

how many games of Gothic Chess have now been completed on BrainKing? Anyone know?

I know there is a pretty long list of people who have defeated the Chinook highest level and I did see Ed's name there. But it's still a tiny minority of those who have played it.

I think people believe computers are infallible. This is far from the case. I think I am the only person to have defeated a World Champion calliber program in chess and checkers.

Programs do have weaknesses!

I am wondering if anyone is aware that International Master Mike Valvo played Deep Thought in a correspondence chess game and won! Deep Thought had 3 days to make each move. At times it could search 34 plies ahead (17 moves for each side to move).

And how did Valvo win? With a piece sacrifice!

Look at this game:

Deep Thought vs. Valvo and just try and grasp the complexity in the King's Gambit game.

Computers are strong at tactics, but not at strategy. Grandmaster Savielly Tartakower had a great quote:

Tactics is what you do when you have something to do. Strategy is what you do when there is nothing to do.

And therein lies the weakness of programs.

Some people need a boost to be tall enough to go on some rides at Disneyland. LOL.

of course the obvious responce is..theres always boosting :/

The generic reason for popularity of variants was not only to have a game where there was a chance against the masters but also to defeat program users. Once someone even hints they have access to program then their every victory is tainted whether they use one or not. I have webtv which can't use one but if I could I would when playing another admitted program user. Then it would be machine againt machine. Otherwise there is zero chance. But the best defense against the accusation is to point to your loss record which in my case is substantial and which would never happen if a program was used. I have played checkers against people who have played over the board in Las Vegas so I know how good they are but even they can only hope for a draw against most programs,,and only then if they play perfect checkers. Chess I know nothing about..still less about Gothic Chess.

these are good points,and brings up the issue of resignations.Perhaps with matches between advanced player who use certain forms and strategies...an early resignation may be considered proper.But for an uneducated player like myself,using "homespun"strategies...it can be rather difficult to forsee the end result of a match.Granted....when the more seasoned player has eliminated the majority of the threatening pieces...odds are very much n favor of a win,but having played a great deal under this type of pressure...its entirely possible for a comeback.IMO

What Mr. E.T. said about "bookworms" in regular chess is very true, but I don't agree with his whole article completely.

1) It's not only about openings, middlegame strategies/tactics/patterns and endgames can be studied and learned similar way too, little difference is there is some creativity required mostly in combining and taking advantage of those patterns.
2) But I don't see any real difference in Gothic chess here. Of course what Mr. Trice wrote is always true until some chess variant becomes more popular, not many masters games are available and the area is not covered by computer programs with huge books yet. But then, some point will be reached when all this starts again.
3) There were some tries to avoid book openings, let's mention Fisher Random Chess here. But different starting positions don't give always, in fact they give almost never, the same chances for both parties. Just look at differences between Capablanca and Gothic chess starting positions, with same pieces Capablanca setup leads to huge advantage for the starting player, as Mr.Trice described on the way to his patent for Gothic Chess.

So, I don't see any real solution here. Of course, one could always play some new chess variant where such book knowledge is not present yet. But again, looking at some top rated players and their repertoire can substitute the books absence or accessibility and give you some advantage over your opponents.
But I think, when you play for fun, without looking for some breakthroughs, money and fame, you can have it even against those "bookworms" here and there, you can sometimes suprise them as their memorized repertoire cannot cover the whole area. But as I mentioned in 1), it's not only about openings... And of course, even when you lose, you can gain something good, at least you had some brain training etc.
And those looking for fame, tourney wins, money, well the only way is to study and play and study and play again if you think it's worth it and/or you really like the game.

Just my opinion.

Redsales,Januschess was invented in the seventies bei Werner Schöndorf+.There are no books or something about this variant. The Januschessfederation (www.janusschach.de) has his place in the western part of Germany, in Saarbrücken.The people play this game in the normal chessclubs.One time in the year there is the international Saar-Lor-Lux Open with Januschess,sometimes are grandmasters aboard,Kortschnoi for instance.Generally you can say the most German chessplayers play only standard chess.

Follow your heart...
Your intuition..
It will lead you .. In the right direction!!

Gothic is not based on Janus at all! Just look at the castling differences. In Janus, in one direction the king leaps 4 squares, and in the other, just 3. This is a huge difference. In fact, Janus plays like a "colors-reversed" game because when the king ends up in the Knight's file on one side of the board, it is exactly like the opposite color does in chess.

Gothic is actually more closely related to Bird's chess in 1875 than Capablanca's chess from 1925.

See the paper at:

this link for a comparison between Bird, Capablanca, and Gothic.

I just read the rules. My head is spinning.

redsales...I'm no expert...but Janus is actually a 2faced God.the brainking dog(?) is just an easy facsimile:)

Bad hair is often covered up by hoakie looking hat designed to also make dwarf look taller.

i'm curious, and maybe Caissus can answer this too, is there a large "book" for Janus? I'm assuming the game has been around for awhile, and in fact it seems gothic chess is loosely based on it, with the Janus and board size and all. Not to mention Janus is German chess and Goth means German. How popular is Janus in Germany? Could you give a ratio of normal chess to Janus tournaments or clubs? And how long has it taken to acuqire that status. How long before Gothic chess can achieve a similar ratio in N. America?

I guess that just demonstrates that anyone can have a "bad hair day" ;)

While I was giving a 20 board simul in Kansas City in 2001, I lost one game to an 11-year old participant in the Supernationals-2 National chess tournament.

At the end of the game, I asked him his rating. I was surprised when he said it was 1340 or something like that.

I allowed a skewer of my Chancellor and Queen, loosing the C for just a Bishop. I was embarrassed by this miscue, and thought I could surely trick this youngster and recover.

No chance.

So, I would have to say this singular example demonstrates players of any strength can pull off amazing wins.

Most tournament players are "booked up" in chess. You are not playing them, you are playing every master game they have studied and incorporated into their repotoire.

Gothic Chess levels that playing field. The truly talented players shine in Gothic, even if their ratings are held back due to battling so many "bookworms".

Shouldn't a person be of at least average ability at regular chess before they took up Gothic?

It depends. If my opponent has a Chancellor and I have an Archbishop, then the Archbishop is stronger. If I have a Chancellor and my opponent has an Archbishop, then the Chancellor is stronger :)

Look at the last game between ChessCarpenter and I. He snagged my Chancellor earlier, leaving me with just an Archbishop, but I felt I had the greater attacking chances.

The Archbishop is, in general, weaker than the Chancellor, but the question is, by how much? Would you trade Archbishop + Pawn for a Chancellor? How about Archibshop + Knight for Chancellor and 2 pawns?

See it gets complicated!

Even stranger is Archbishop + Rook vs. Chancellor and Bishop! These are made of the "same pieces" once you decompartmentalize them (Rook + Bishop + Knight) but I think the Chancellor + Bishop is stronger since you can have a "Chancellor's Vortex" occur with this piece combination.

See this paper for a complete discussion on the derivation of the piece values.

Well I will be the head nurse!! LMCAO!!

Sorry, couldn't pass that up!!

So.. what would you consider to be the stronger of the two.. the Archbishop or the Chancellor? and Why??

Oh... he has always had that sense of humor.. just no one ever cared to notice.. too concerned with the challenge!

even not the worst have a good income by pushing buttons under robo-command ~*~

That is incredible. A lot of work.

Click on this link at the University of Alberta for more information.

And yes, that is my name there for helping out with that project.

I don't play tiddily winks, jacks, jump rope, house or any chess games. I might however play doctor under the right circumstances, :)

dang...2 invitations declined...guess he's just scared:(

are you trying to say Gothic Chess isnt a mans game?
are ya scared???

I only play real men's games. I challenge (note correct spelling) to checkers, Halma8 or Five in a line.

I challange you to a game of gothic chess!!

yes - you already look toasted again ~*~

Unless you birds are fueding over a broad how can this be important? You are both invited to check into the Purple Rehab Center. TWELVE steps. :)

I sensed just that it's time for spammocrap noise alert ...
- and it's kwoh-ISS-kweh ... ( until when ) ... ~*~

well Dano...its kinda good to see our dear dear friend,Richard Cranium,aka..Gothic Chess Pro,aka..Gothic Inventor,aka..I dont know how to pronounce that....has somewhat a sense of humor! LOL:)

Maledicta homine docto indigna esse videntur ~*~

ok Mr. Buttox

how little respect some people have even for the reward of their own name *grin* ~*~
btw
the whole humbug was saved of course and is available at the known reliable source

ok Mr. Buttox

who dare name true are dangerous too ... 0:) ... ~*~