Now the repetition is allowed because the administrator has decided my game with redsales as a draw.

Tromyr: I've had a draw forced on me by CaoZ. I didn't like it but I accept the rules as they are and agreed to the draw regardless. Besides, logically, you can see that even if Fecner DID change the rules, it would be unfair to apply them to existing games.

okay.
but now i want to discuss, if it is possibel to change the rules. because i think it's to easy to force a draw.

i pretty much have figured out that you can force a draw everygame. there should be something put in that prevents this glitch! the game was a lot of fun until i figured it out. if anyine can beat me now tht i have figured it out all challenges welcome. i ahd to sacrifice a few games to figure it out though.

i was playing 2 differnt people recently and both were draws but when i got done the one game there were no points change in our ratings but hte other draw i again lost nothing but my opp lost 7 pts to his his rating both players were rated higher... but the player who was rated hihgest lost nothing.

maybe it depends not only on the rating but also on the number of games which the person has played?

I'm surprised that you didn't carry on against LightningBolt, it looks to me as if you could win by bringing your dog to F9, your wolf to D6 and then your leopard to B7.

i saw that he had a clear path down the center and my dog was the strongest defense vs his dog. so i had to defend with the dog if i attacked with my dog his dog had undisturbed path to my lair. i missed a move by my tiger to jump water 3-4 moves earier. this got his tiger mobile. his dog was just to fast..

I see what you mean. I guess if you transfer your leopard to the central path before moving your dog to attack his wolf, the two fronted attack would be insufficient?

the method of this attack would take forever. adn could be countered indefinitely and wouldnt be worth the trouble unless it was a tournament. im sure he could stop me with out a mouse im pretty much helpless vs his elephantmy lion is rendered useless and must hold his ground. as does his elephant must stay or loss additional material thus giving me a win!

I played a game in which I had available a winning plan, it was clear that it couldn't be stopped but would take around 40 moves to play out, I dont think jungle is a game suited to long time limits (or auto-vacation).

i check what you were saying since getting htem pieces to the squares you mentioned would take so long he could counter by moving cat out and replacing it with the leopard thus stoppingmy dog, if i move my leopard down the middle he can still take it with his tiger, although it would let my tiger in im now down a leopard and now he has major material and my dog cant win vs anything in the red squares.

It's interesting, maybe some other players have ideas. In "normal" Chinese chess there exists a similar problem that a player can only win with specific combinations of pieces, if they dont memorise the combinations it's impossible to efficiently conduct the middlegame. Due to this inherrent drawishness and the facility to be able to agree draws, it seems excessive to also allow one side to force a draw in an otherwise lost position. Regarding the Tromyr-Redsales game mentioned earlier, (I wrote "black" when I meant "white"), of course one cant criticise Redsales for playing within the rules but I would certainly like to see this rule given a serious review.
A further point concerning shogi, in shogi the players can not agree a draw. A threefold repetition (same player to move, same position on the board and same pieces in hand) voluntarily undertaken by both sides ie not with continuous checks by one side, is considered a 'no contest' and the game is replayed with reversed colours. The only valid draws are jishogi, though effectively, at the professional level, these too amount to no contest.

" if i move my leopard down the middle he can still take it with his tiger, although it would let my tiger in im now down a leopard and now he has major material and my dog cant win vs anything in the red squares ".
Well anyway same if it was a problem I could same bring me too my leopard down the middle. To me this position is a dead draw.
In this position

You could try borrowing one of the bombs from espionage.

LOL!!!!!

In reality in our game the higher player lost points.
Here was the message after the game:

" LightningBolt: old BKR = 1679, new BKR = 1679 (0)
Nothingness: old BKR = 1738, new BKR = 1731 (-7)

Game type: Jungle "

However what is strange is it is me who was 1738 and it was Nothingness who was 1679.

The same thing happened for my previous Jungle game with Nothingness(an other draw...).

Someone could explain why?

I believe it is a known bug with Draw messages...

Like rod said, it is a known bug. The ratings did go to the correct person, just the names are switched in the message at the end of the game. (games that end with a draw)

I found the bug in the bug tracker.. It's bug #7.

in my mesage it had you as losing points lightning. but in my game vs a person higher than you he lost nothing! in real chess if your a 1500 and you draw a 1900 your rating will increase!

i have heard that one who has finished 50 games loses less points as one who has finished only 5 games if they lose. so it's understandable that one with a high ranking and a lot of finished games loses less points as a person with lower ranking and a few finished games. maybe???

I think it needs to be added to the rules that a mouse in the water can eat another mouse that is in the water.

How the rules are now, it seems like the only time a mouse can kill is as it jumps from the water onto "land".

Really?? the situation's never come up in any of my games presumably because both players know that a mouse can kill a mouse in a lake.

BBW: that's precisely the only restriction to when a mouse can kill: it can't kill an elephant when going out of the water, only a mouse... but it says nothing about the other possibilities so it can kill at any other occasion.

I guess after playing tank war, where the middle squares are "safe" areas - I thought of the water the same way. And since it did not say it is possible, I guess I assumed it wasn't possible.

Please post it to the Bug Tracker, I'll do it ASAP.

Can a mouse be eaten by another mouse in the water?

Also how can the little cuddly dog be stronger than a wolf! :)

M4tt:
Yes, a mouse can eat another in the water. (I found that out the hard way LOL)

And I thought the same thing. How is the Dog stronger than a Wolf? hehe

M4tt: yes a mouse can eat another mouse in the water.

The dog eats mighty dog dog food.

Thanks for your replies, you guys have just saved my little mouse from being eaten...Im glad I posted the question before I submitted the move! :)

Regarding the little dog, it looks like a poodle! Your right, it must eat some mighty dog food! lol :)

when an unrated player beats a rated player why does the rated player lose so many points? (perhaps there is a help page explaining this?)

the amount of bkr lost/gained depends on several factors :

• the difference in bkr between the 2 players
  
• the amount of games played by the player
  
• the variation in winning/losses (deviation)
  
• and maybe some more factors?
  

i assume you are talking about your game of jungle with volant ? as you had not played a game of jungle before your bkr was at 1500 (i think?) which was more than 400 points lower than volants bkr at that time ... 400 seems to be a break point .. when the difference is more than 400 the gain/loss in bkr is even larger

Hrqls: If I had known she would lose so many points by losing I would have just challenged her to a different game. It doesn't seem very fair for someone who worked hard for a good rating should suffer so badly from a single loss.

ColonelCrockett: she lost 39 points ... which is more than she would have lost against someone within her own bkr range ... but not that much either .. she will gain them back again ;)

you challenged her .. she accepted .. she could have declined .. she could have won because you were inexperienced but appearently you were playing very well :)

Hrqls: Your right, I know she'll gain them back and she seemed as positive about that as you are, I just thought it was kinda silly for an unrated player to get that many points from a rated one. (not a huge beef or anything, just an odd observation).

is there anyone interested in a game of Jungle, I haven't played in awhile and I thought I should get a game going.

there is a game of jungle in the waiting room if anyone is interested.

I'm number One, I'm number One! (at least provisionally, LOL)

I would like to see a variation of Jungle in which to win you either get your mouse / rat in the opponent's lair or eat the mouse. I'm currently playing Water Dancer with the honour system of this variation. Any support for this?
Regards,
prendek

prendek: with the mouse in a pond square you stand no chance of losing (you'd just have to use your elephant to block the other elephant). I don't see the purpose of the variant. Usually, variants are designed to make regular games a little more interesting, I don't see this variant being that much different (perhaps maybe even more drawable).

ColonelCrockett: I don't think a mouse in a pond has complete immunity. It can be eaten by the opposing mouse. The only way to find out if there would be too many draws would be to play some.

prendek:

what about adding a new animal peice? Maybe a croc or snake? the croc could go on land or water and be able to kill anything weaker than a lion. perhaps also make it so that it can only attack while in the water or when coming out of the water. if already on land it can't attack.

A snake could be like the crock only it could be killed by any animal. in addition it could possibly kill any other animal(poison) in return. though, perhaps not the elephant. you know, to keep it as the strongest piece in the game.

just a random idea. don't mind me ^_^;

The Hunter: I don't like the croc idea. The croc has a great power that could be easily abused and even if a lion can kill it it will be a very dangerous piece. The snake idea is good, any piece attacking a snake will be killed (so this is a kamikaze weak piece) I think you might want to make the rat immune to his powers, not the elephant. You really don't have to make any animal immune to his powers though. That way you would either have to trade snakes or get your cat out there and sacrifice him. The point is, this snake piece is a good idea because it forces each player to make moves that aren't normally considered in standard jungle. I personally usually leave my minor animals at home to protect my lair but if a snake is coming you don't want to fight it at the last minute and lose a defender (usually their are two defenders for each magenta square but with a snake nearby you can make it one, this is an invaluable tactic). I think the snake idea is great, perhaps you should take your idea to the feature request message board?

ColonelCrockett:

well, crocs are usually dangerous anyway but I can see the point. perhaps while out of water it could be vulnerable to any animal?

I'll take the snake idea to feature requests when I got a bit more time around tomorrow. unless you'd like to mention it for me.

The Hunter: you should always take credit for your own work.

why is this game so stupid

Cubs93: Not every game is for everyone. Some people see Checkers as stupid... some see backgammon as stupid. Jungle is an interesting game where you try to out-wit your opponenet, so for some - Jungle may not be interesting for them.

Marfitalu: No

Marfitalu: Oops, I missed that subtlety ... when a piece is in the opposition's pink squares (traps) they can be eaten by anything. My previous answer related to eating in the wilds not at home (so to speak). You probabaly need to reread the Jungle rules, in particular the notes right at the bottom under "Other important rules".