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Модератор: Walter Montego , Pedro Martínez 
 Languages

Ask questions or just talk about different languages. Since BrainKing is an international game site supporting many languages, this board can be kind of useful.

Since we will be dealing with pronunciation of words rather than their spelling, I think it's useful to have a link to The sounds of English and the International Phonetic Alphabet.


To see translations of some frequently used phrases and sentences in other languages see Languages


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8. Сентября 2009, 14:41:09
Pedro Martínez 
Субъект: indefinite article problem
In an average hotel, a double room with ??? shower costs 80 pounds a night.

Should there be "a" before "shower" in the above sentence?

8. Сентября 2009, 15:31:55
Carl 
Субъект: Re: indefinite article problem
Pedro Martínez: To me the sentence looks more correct without the"a".

8. Сентября 2009, 22:15:05
Pedro Martínez 
Субъект: Re: indefinite article problem
Carl: Thank you.
Can please anyone else comment on this? I would like to have two opinions at least. :)

9. Сентября 2009, 20:26:21
Bwild 
Субъект: Re: indefinite article problem
Pedro Martínez: a, seems to be a little more descriptive...yet I am always amazed at English English. lol

12. Сентября 2009, 06:40:05
Walter Montego 
Субъект: English English Re: indefinite article problem
Bwild:

England and the United States

Two countries separated by a common language? :)

Here's one I hear a lot and it concerns Czech Republic. The very use of "the" when one says Czech Republic! I usually just say Czech Republic, but it seems I am the only that says that. Everyone else I know always says 'The Czech Republic". Ukraine gets the "The" too. England doesn't. Hardly any other countries in Europe get the "The". The Netherlands is one that does. I wonder how this came about?

Around here we use "the" in ways that people from the East Coast don't, especially when talking about freeways. Interstate 5 is the most common example. It is often called "The 5". Other roads get this same treatment, The 22, The 405, The 55, The Orange Crush, The Four Level. Even bureaucracies get this. The Department of Motor Vehicles is called "The DMV" for short. I have heard a few people just say "DMV", but it's not very common compared to putting the "The" in front. I live in Southern California, so maybe we talk a different version of American English? :)

12. Сентября 2009, 21:58:29
Bwild 
Субъект: Re: English English Re: indefinite article problem
Walter Montego: do you live in United States, or the United States?

15. Сентября 2009, 06:16:04
Walter Montego 
Субъект: Re: English English Re: indefinite article problem
Bwild: The United States.

That's the original name, though the "The" and the "United" are not capitalized with number of states listed.

http://archives.gov/exhibits/charters/declaration_zoom_2.html

It was "the thirteen united States of America"

12. Сентября 2009, 06:28:17
Walter Montego 
Субъект: Re: indefinite article problem
Pedro Martínez: Sure thing, though I am not sure as to what a double room is! When I say something is with something, but not a specific thing, I always use "a". English has the two articles. "the" and "a", definite and indefinite, respectively. Your sentence sounds strange to me to just say, "double room with shower" as compared to "double room with a shower". This has me reflecting on the fact that using the indefinite article in this manner makes it very definite in the fact that it implies just one shower for the double room! :) It seems it might be better to say "double room with one shower" or "a double room with one shower" or even "a double room with shower" implying the accommodation just has one shower even though the room is double sized in other respects.

It's a trip that using the definite article to describe just having one shower doesn't seem right at all to me. I'm going to have to see if there's other instances of this. Perhaps it is a common thing and until your question I had not given it any thought.
"double room with the shower"

12. Сентября 2009, 06:50:01
Walter Montego 
Субъект: Re: indefinite article problem
Pedro Martínez: Is a double room one that has two beds? Or is it something else? I've re-read your sentence with and without the "a". Both ways seem OK to me, almost like it doesn't matter.

I think I am used to hearing a room with two beds just called a "double". The word "room" is what is strange to me in your sentence. A single has one bed, a double has two, and then there's the possibility of having a rollaway brought in for more sleeping space. More than one room is often called a "suite", whether or not there's any more beds in it.

12. Сентября 2009, 13:26:03
Pedro Martínez 
Субъект: Re: indefinite article problem
Walter Montego: I think that in the US, a double room is a room with two double beds, while in the UK it is a room with one double bed.

The reason why I was asking: I was told that the omission of “a” in such sentences is "one of those strange and commonly accepted uses of articles." Now that I've read your responses, it doesn't seem that it really is such a commonly accepted use. :) Thank you all.

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