Mélusine: I love the way you put things! That's why it's impossible to get mad at you. You make me smile. BTW, I think I've been behind that moral dilemma you speak of (more than once).

Here's another thought on having so many games that you time out. I know there are some players that jump in any tourney posted. Some tourneys have limited participants and when one joins, and then times out, they may as well not played at all. And they used up a slot someone else otherwise might have wanted. So for me, as a rule of thumb, if you are timing out in your games, play fewer games. Also, if you are committed to playing over 500 games, be sure you move many times a day out of courtesy to other players. One person dragging out a tourney is bad form and ought to be avoided.

But that's just me thinking out loud on the subject.

Vikings: Ah yes, I see. But a board too quiet doesn't interest people. I don't want to strike the match, I just say something true.

Mélusine: no worries, it's just that usually leads to flame wars, and it's been good here for quite a while, knock on wood

Vikings: Excuse me, I didn't know it was forbidden.

Please continue the conversation but without naming names

thank you

Marshmud: I like your reply full of respect (thank you !).
I totally agree with you when you say : " I have been asked "Why are you not joining my tournaments" so should I lie or tell them the truth ? " : of course, you have to tell the truth, I would do the same.
But you make me think to something : the player you are talking about (********) is in my fellowship and you also. If tomorrow, you tell me " I don't want to join your tournaments because he plays too slowly ", I must admit that it will be for me a moral dilemma ; on one side, I'd like to satisfy your request (because I appreciate you very much) and on the other side, it would be very difficult for me to punish someone who did nothing beyond the rules of the site.
Yes, you're right, I don't see you complaining (not to me, that's is sure ).
In fact, my reply wasn't about a particular player but a general thought about moves and time.

Marshmud: For the reasons you have stated, I have posted on my profile that I only want to play 3 day limit games. It's frustrating when I join a tourney and forget to check and see that it's a 7 day tourney. I know that I could die before it's finished.

Artful Dodger: I agree with you because my reply would be the same to such a poll : 3 days (1st) then 5 days (2nd).
I can't blame someone who makes his moves in the last minute, because I often play my games on the last day, because of a lack of time for playing but not for annoying people. This doesn't shock me because, on the main page, I always hide the part " Opponent's turn in games ", so I never care about slow or fast players.
I can't imagine what represents 1000 games because I've already difficulties when I play 150. But everyone is different : me, I don't have enough time to play because I work but here, there are people who stay at home (don't work or on retirement), so why couldn't they play more games than me ? And, as I said before, the number of games isn't significant, example : for the same time I can do 5 moves for Ludo while I do 1 move for Chess.

Mélusine: I respectfully disagree. Maybe some history to this matter and you would understand. Then again play 2000+or- games and see how frustraiting it is to keep up. Then blame everyone else for your time outs. (btw at one time over 4000 games in progress)

This is not a simple issue of one time out. And I'd like to see these rude messages. I can only imagine what he received but as he said its all fencers faught for his sporadic play.

We have spoke about one player only. Not pawns, knights or you....

"Get better results if your nice"

Well in that case I see why fencer doesn't respond to his HUNDREDS of complaints and sarcasium, but I'm (or others) can't complain of his massive amount of time outs? Do you have any idea what it does to a tournament? He is a very smart player, so he beats a few players and times out on the rest? It doesn't sound like a fun tournament at all to me.

Your correct that he is doing nothing wrong. I meant ask the BB to create shorter tournaments. I have been asked "Why are you not joining my tournaments" so should I lie or tell them the truth?

Also I am not the one who sent him the messages in question. In fact I never have wrote to him. But when he mention the fact of his timeouts and tries to justify them I had to speak up. How often do you see me here complaining?

Mélusine: One solution is to never play in a tourney that is over 3 days per move. Frankly, I wish there were a serious game limit here. Who needs to play 1000 games at the same time? Even 100 is tough to keep up with.

I did a poll in an fs once and found that of those that responded, 7 days was the least favorite, 5 days came in 2nd, and 3 days was hands down the favorite time limint by most. And yet, I don't see many tourneys with that time factor.

While it may not be breaking a rule, it's just plain bad form to wait until the last minute to make a move.

And that's my .o2

Gabriel Almeida:
I try to do the same (to clean my main page) but it depends a lot on the games you play. For example, it's more easy to clean games as Ludo and backgammon than games as Chess or some variants of Chess.
Me, I also try to play " easy " games first (I mean games which don't need to think a lot, as Ludo).
And games aren't the only thing we can appreciate on this site : I like to talk with people too (I know, I'm talkative ) on private messages and boards.

I think that slow players can be a problem for players having a limit for games as pawns, bishops or knights. Before being a rook, I was a knight and very often I was blocked because tournaments weren't finished because of slow players. It's the reason why I'm a rook now.

Nevertheless, I think that we can't blame a slow player when he uses the rules of the website, and I don't agree with a blocking on the games. If people want to play rapidly, they have the possibility to choose tournaments with a little limit (1 day for example).

Marshmud : I don't agree with you (sorry) when you say " I suggest those who are upset is to just not join tournaments you are part of, and explain to the BB of said fellowship and explain why you won't play " ; I think that a best behaviour would be to ask to the Big Boss of the fellowship to create tournaments with a fast limit.

From my side, I think that I'm rather medium for the speed and I try to make an effort about this but it's sometimes difficult not to join a tournament when a friend tells you that players are missing, or else when someone celebrates his (her) birthday with a tournament. Moreover, team tournaments begin without your choice when you're not the captain of the team. The consequence is that sometimes I've too many games, so I play slowly. In these moments, I wouldn't like that someone send me a private and rude message asking me to play more rapidly.

I totally agree with Rod when he says " People need to realize they may get better results by being nice. ". When a nice player tells me very kindly that he likes to play rapidly (I think to you Gabriel Almeida ), I do my best to play his games very rapidly, but I must admit that I'm a little frustrated when the game finishes too rapidly !

Gabriel Almeida: Interesting. Doesn't sound like you disagree. I said "didn't break any rule" and "doesn't deserve rudeness" I said nothing about courtesy.

Marshmud:

I timed out hundreds of games because I couldn't login into the site gateway 502 error and this was the only site I could not access so I thought that the site was down so the server would disable the timeout (losing about 15000 rating points). After that I wasn't motivated to play because of this for a bit which used up vacation. Also timing out by minutes because of the you are not the starter click pass BUG doesn't help. The lack motivation and boredom at continuously clicking pass lead to further timeouts.

Anyway that is all ancient history other than that if someone I care about has a problem or my internet fails I'll possibly lose a few timeout due to no vacation, but things are a lot different now.

Plenty of players have double my number of games or more.

Mancala any legal series moves for a player on 25 pts or more wins yet the game is forced to be played out and the loser can get a timeout victory due to the BUG in the game!
Chess a player can play on with bare king and get awarded a win due to to a BUG in variants where a lone king can't win. Playing on for months until checkmate is very disrespectful yet is common. If most move in a day is an "achievement" having a game you can't screw up the result is going to perversely reward playing on till mate.

These above issues/bugs will slow my play down needlessly.

It is news to me that anyone enters an event that has a particular time limit and is surprised that time is used. There are many opportunity to play 1 day a move or even less and no vacation games.
Anyone who plays in the real world knows it is normal to use the time you have as you see fit!

In any case I wasn't given a chance to respond to the message before they continue having a go because I don't immediately look at the latest message (usually a request for players for tournament, teams and ponds)..
Spamming/harassing someone who doesn't reply within a day is clearly uncalled for.
They weren't even a member when I timed out lots of games!

Marshmud: No clue what you are talking about. All I am saying, he has broken NO rule, and doesn't deserve someone sending him rude messages. And my point is, How productive are rude messages to him anyway? I personally react negative to rude messages, and would move even slower to someone being a jerk.

I didn't say anyone specific was being rude to him, nor do I know WHO was being rude to him, NOR do I care who. It was a general comment.

Worms? Road signs?

rod03801: Look at his threads Rod. Speaking of being rude ....I think fencer has heard every complaint in bkville that can be made.

His comments made just opens a can of worms. Its a two way street here.

My last comment on the subject. Good night all

Marshmud: I never said you or anyone was rude. I was simply responding to him saying he got rude messages.

I think this is a good and effective proposal.
If a players times out on more than acertain amount of games, he gets limited in the number of games he can start. There are many possible thresholds, for example:
Tmed out in more than 20 games in 24 h => cannot join tournaments or games for 24 h
Or:
Every time you time out (a single game), you cannot join any other game or tournament until you have no more games where it is your move. - this would force that player to make a move in all games before he can start new ones. Maybe a bit too harsh.
Or:
- after any timeout, you can only start games or join tournaments if the number of games where it is your move is less than the number where it is your opponents move (so you need to move in half of your games)

There is an infinity of other ideas, most anything would do though. Just some limitation would help.

rod03801: And with all due respect Rod, being the "slowone" a few times over the years is a bit different to this scenario I speak of.

rod03801: I wasn't rude, just to the point and speaking for many palyers at bk about his comment. I would never be rude to any player who just is a slow player, I just avoid them as I suggested and would of never mention the slow play until he first made a comment. Slow play doesn't bother me but when people have problems playing the games they currently have, and I notice they have join new tournaments I just avoid them. This also not the first time its been brought up, and imo, some players who time out constantly should be placed on a game limit.

Aganju: Thank you for that reply; a second the motion. I wanted to say the same thing, but couldn't figure out a way to do so that wouldn't make me look rude. As a result I was silent until now....

Marshmud, thisbeme: I can only agree. Starting an inordinate amount of games that you cannot handle shows bad judgement. That can happen to anybody, but continuing to do so shows carelessness and disrespect for others.
Although it does not violate any official rules on this site, it violates basic courtesy, and I would not want to play against such people anymore.

Marshmud: But there is still no need for anyone to be rude to him about it. He has done nothing wrong, and has broken no rules.

I've been the "slow one" a few times over the years, so I can relate a bit. When I have a lot of games, I play in order of time out. So of course the games with the longer time limits can last SO long, because yes, there will be times I approach the time limits pretty closely.
This is why I tend to avoid games with longer than 3 day limits. And when someone sends me an invitation to a private, friendly game with a long limit, I write back and warn them that which such a long limit, unfortunately, I may use much of it.

Anyone who asks POLITELY however, as others have said, to move more quickly for them? I'm MORE than happy to do it, as I'm not going "slow" on purpose.

This is one reason I have requested the ability to "flag" certain games, (for whatever reason), and have an additional command of "Move and go to Next Flagged Game".
(Which I STILL think is a great request, FENCER!! )

People need to realize they may get better results by being nice. I know if I got a rude message about my speed of moving, I'd probably tend to leave games with that person longer than normal!.

thisbeme: I have many friends complain of your play in the past. I've never said anything about all the time outs, but that is what happens when you have thousands of games to play. Your a smart player. When you timeout constantly it lowers your BKR. It upsets people who play their games on a daily bases. All my tournys from last year that I'm still in are because of your slow play. I can see why people get upset, but its your right to play thousands of games and time out on as many as you wish as long as we have no limit on games played. I suggest those who are upset is to just not join tournaments you are part of, and explain to the BB of said fellowship and explain why you won't play.

When someone sends me a polite request asking me to try and move more quickly than the time limits require I try and help them, especially if they include a good reason for wanting to play faster. But if I got three rude demands to do so all in the same day, I'd probably ignore them.

thisbeme: I agree with you : a message like this has no reason to be. Everyone is free to play as he (she) wants.

Gabriel Almeida: I sign up for a game with a certain time limit, then it is up to me how I use the time.
How is it kind to me to send 3 consecutive unfriendly messages within a day,

People are complaining that I'm making moves or not making moves when they think I should/shouldn't be.
Got one player who isn't on my main page list complaining with 3 message because I don't go hunting to play the game with them as opposed to the games about to timeout!

Fencer: I just played about 10 games and all is working fine, Thanks

MadMonkey: Can you please test move and go to pawn opponent?

MadMonkey: Yes, they are most likely connected. I just noticed that one of my friends had no red number on the main page, but a 9 appeared when I was on the events page and also here.

El Cid: Yes, i have just tried that, you are correct, sorry i misunderstood, though maybe the 2 are connected.

By default i have 10 set to show on my main page. If i am on my Main Page and hover, i can select from all 10 BUT when i am on here typing this message and i hover over it, i get to choose from 30

Most odd.....

MadMonkey: That was not what I was talking about. I was talking about the red number right below the "main page" words (separated of the ponds and game invitation red numbers by slashes). In the main page, if I have 15 games in my turn, but only have 5 games displaying when I hoover the mouse on this number (top left, at least on the castle layout) I can only choose bewteen the first five. However, if I go to the second sub-page of my games, or messages, or online opponents, or any game page, or whatever, I can choose between the 15.

However, now that Ithink of it, the bug you said could be caused by the same problem. If you only have 5 games showing in the main page, the red number next to friends on the right only accounts for those 5 games. However, if you go to the friends page ot accounts for the first 30 (or even all) of the games in your turn.

Edit: I think it's just a strange filter on how the site collects information about games in our turn depending on the page we are

El Cid: The bug with the red number shown in the top Right (under Friends online) i think Fencer Knows about (well, i mentioned it a while back lol). I dont really know what it is doing. If i look there now, i have 6 friends showing, and 2 of them i have 1 game waiting against.

IF i then click on my Friends list and look at my complete list, at them same 6 players.... 1 has 15 games waiting, 1 has 5, and 1 has 1.....so i have no idea what it is doing

MadMonkey: For some reason, that filter only works for the first 30 games with the least amount of time. The drop down box only shows those 30 games too, and on the main page the red number with "games on my turn" only shows the same number of games that I have per default (i.e. if I only have 5 games showing in the main page, the red number also shows only the first 5 games). However, if I move to the second page on my turn (or any other page in the site, other than the first page of my turn) then it shows the 30 games on the javascript menu

MadMonkey: Next game of this type is my default one, for the same reason. Before that, I even made anti-checkers moves in a checkers game... eheheh

Fencer: Well, i don't know. Sometimes it is, and sometimes it is not. I also tried picking a few game in the Opponent's turn in 194 games: list on my Home Page, and the same there, it is there in some games, and not in others

It's not important really, more to those who stay in games like Dark Chess, Logik etc... after they have moved to see the result of there move, and being able to goto the next game of that type.....

MadMonkey: It works for me.

MadMonkey: That's been gone quite a while, I believe.

Fencer: Something i just noticed....what ever happened to the link to next game of a certain type (if there is one waiting) that used to be at the top of the screen if we stayed on a game after submitting our move

MadMonkey: Yes, the pawn one is very useful. I often use that one, when I feel I'm caught up enough, in order to be helpful to the pawns who only have a few games anyway, so at least the ones I play can have something to do. lol.

Unfortunately, lately I'm not often caught up.

Fencer: yes.....maybe we should have a poll, and see if there are any not needed any more (or any new ones lol )

The Pawn (go to the next game with a non-paying member) is helpful i think

MadMonkey: I have been wondering how I could miss the "go to next pawn member". Now I know. Looks like I had disabled this option on my Settings page and completely forgot about it, so I couldn't see it during the testing process. I'll look at it now.

rabbitoid: That is a list of the ones not working that Fencer wanted the other day. Thay are not the ones i use

My main ones are:
Goto next Team match (my default)
Next game without Vacation (to avoid timeouts lol)
Next game with non-paying member (so Pawns can get through there games, and thus play more hopefully, then they may join)
Next game of this type (i try to play in blocks, when i have my logik or chess head on etc...... when i need to think)
Next game of this Tournament

They are my regualr ones, though i hae Stay here & Main page enabled as well

MadMonkey: Nice to have all those micro-management options, but how many of those do you really use? I have only the following enabled:
go to the next game of this type (my default action)
stay here (I use that for battleboats, logik and espionage where I want to see the results of my move)
go to the main page (which I use only rarely, when I want to play just one game)

Fencer: Found the list......

Goto Game with most moves - Getting removed
Goto Team match - Done

These ones did not do anything (unless you have altered them since), just took you to next game on your list...

Goto Message Box
Goto Discussion Board
Goto tournament
Goto list of online opponents

Fencer: I can't find the posts now about which ones are used....

Goto next Team match now works again , non-paying member does not though. Will have another look which ones were mentioned before

Thanks Filip