heyo: I agree that the system is flawed, and the unsportsmanlike players who refuse to admit that they've lost are very annoying. But I would oppose any change in the rules that turns the game into something that is not traditional Go. I don't want to play something like Go. I want to play Go.

I don't have a big problem with the rules the way they work now. The playing of Go requires a certain amount of courtesy. And the current rules force players to learn courtesy and sportsmanship.

Occasionally, this means asking Fencer to end a game. I'm sure this annoys Fencer, but he's been doing it for a while, so it can't be that bad. Previously on this board, it has been suggested that some members be appointed to adjudicate disputed games. I still think this is the best solution.

heyo: If both players pass again consecutive all stones are treated as alive and the score is computed.

No idea can be posted without it being shot down. :-)
One problem with this rule is that novice players often mark dead stones incorrectly because they don't understand how to do it. The first time this rule was used against them, a lot of them would just give up.

Also, there are tricky positions that are difficult to figure out. These would require some discussion between the players and possibly multiple attempts to mark the stones.

I suggest the following:

Keep the first rule:

1. If both players pass consecutively, then they cannot pass again until each player has placed one more stone on the board.

And add this rule:

2. If a player has no legal move or if his only legal move is to place a stone inside his own uncontested territory (that is, in territory surrounded by his own stones and which does not contain any stones of the opposite color), then the game is ended and whoever has more points is declared the winner. All stones on the board are counted as alive (this isn't right, but it will make the programming easier for Fencer ;-)

These rules would force an end to the game. I don't think they would lead to a change in strategy. And players would not be forced to fill in their own eyes. What do you think?

heyo: There may be another way to solve that problem:
If players don't agree on dead stones, they should play until no more dead stones are on the board. Passing is allowed but stones are counted as territory. (So passing gives you no advantage while your opponent fills up his own territory taking away dead stones.)

That's the Chinese method of scoring, also called area scoring. Brainking uses territory scoring, which is the Japanese method. I think it would be interesting if BrainKing added Go with Chinese scoring as a variant. But it would be nice to find a way to make Japanese scoring work.

heyo: I apologize for the lateness of my reply.

The player with more points (on the board) has more opportunities to place stones in his own territory than the player with less points, so he should win the game anyhow.

That may be true, but it changes the strategy of the game. You would have to switch from surrounding territory to trying not to play the last stone, and then you're not really playing Go anymore.

First, as I already mentioned, white may have fewer points on the board but may be leading by komi

That doesn't matter. If white has fewer points on the board but leads by komi, then he wins. Period. That's how the komi rule works.

Second: the player with more groups is in a disadvantage because he has maintain 2 liberties (eyes) for every group.

That's a good point. If players are forced to move, they may be forced to fill in their own eyes, and that would change the status of the game.

heyo: (copied from Feature requests board) "My suggestion to handle this: after the game has ended and players don't agree about dead stones both are forced to place at least one stone befor they may pass again. A player who can't legaly place a stone looses the game.
This may lead to a new problem if the game's ending is slightly in favor for white (only by komi), but would solve the problem that by the rules as they are now nobody can ever win a game of GO if the opponent doesn't agree."

I like the idea of forcing each player to place a stone before they can pass again. That's consistent with Go etiquette. If the players don't agree on dead stones, they should play it out.

I don't like the second part: "A player who can't legally place a stone loses the game." If the player with fewer points is in a position where he would end up placing the last stone, he can force a win for himself by just continuing to play.

Fencer: Thank you.

hexkid: I already reported it on bugtracker a month ago:

http://brainking.com/en/ReadBug?bgi=976

When BrainKing calculates points in Go, it does not include green areas (areas captured on the last move).

Examples:

Go 9x9 (kaluza vs. milionovej kluk)
In this game, BrainKing says that black has 15.5 points, but it should be 19.5.

Go 13x13 (Serg vs. kaluza)
Here, BrainKing says that black has 47.5 points, but it's really 61.5.