Bernice: Possibly, and possibly not. It's a cat situation.

Bernice: 1983... The russian sats thought high altitude clouds for missile launches, if it weren't for a guys gut feeling that it was a false alarm.. well. ... ...

plus many times The USA's systems have 'malfunctioned' .

Bernice: Nope.... Just read alot of history and watched documentries about in the ins and out over the last 60 years. I mean... how many people know we've come close to full scale Nuclear war twice?

Artful Dodger: ?? Which ones, the ones who need help.. or the ones who don't but it'll be good to have an enemy of your enemy on your side?

Yes.. Jobs will be lost no doubt. But how many and for how long, and maybe it'll give some of your corps more time to think together.

Artful Dodger: .... The American government has been sticking it's nose into various things around the world and in it's own country for ages under both parties...

Cold war... even though there were alot of wars, and even thinking of using a possibly unsafe element called agent green on it's own soil.

.... And it's the governments job to help the people as best it can, it won't stop all the "chips" falling, but taking the edge off is like a doc given you painkillers for a cracked rib..... You know it's gonna take time to heal, yet at least you don't have to feel the worst of the 'pain'.

"the automobile industry can file bankruptcy and then restructure in such a way that they will truly be competitive on the world market."

And the jobs lost in the process right now in the midst of a depression, when jobs are harder to find... And what if the all American car makers get bought by foreign companies?

.... How would that look and feel to proud Americans?

Democracy is not perfect, but it's the best of all the government types tried so far.

Artful Dodger: Sounds like a time when we had a conservative gov.... or those private companies who price fixed building public works.

Haven't you heard it's not all doom and gloom??

The boffins have already worked out a 'quick fix' if necessary. It's based on what happens when a volcano erupts. One of the chemicals pumped in to the air is sulphur which blocks the sun a little (or alot depending on the quantity)

So put some into a load of rockets......

Snoopy: Yep. That's the advice. Good one advice also.

Pedro Martínez: Most creation stories refer to the Earth as being feminine. For eg the Maori creation story refers to the sky being Father and the Earth being Mother.

In Judaism the Adam is formed out of the Adamah "אדםה" which is the female form of ground. And as far as I've always been taught, it is right and only proper to refer to Earth as "Mother Earth"

And no, maybe stopping the pollutants may not stop natural variations in the Earth's weather... But It'll reduce our impact.

Czuch: Over here they show the Gore film at schools, but they also state that it's not that accurate in certain details.

That's why I read and listen to the scientific community who are the ones advising our governments on what's going on.

anastasia: I remember when all the aerosols containing cfc's were banned. It wasn't a long debate... They banned them.

anastasia: Similar problems are happening in India, where men, women and kids are taking computers apart for the valuable elements with no protection against the dangerous chemicals needed to do the job or those produced from recycling them. Something that would be banned full stop from happening in the 'west'.

Vikings: Um actually the scientists from what I've seen will debate the evidence behind Global warming.... And as for Greenland.. Isn't it true that ice sheets around it are disintegrating?

And as a statement of how we can affect the planet... 14 years after the accident at Chernobyl sheep in Wales still had to be checked to see what their radiation levels were and if they were safe to sell for meat.

Artful Dodger: Sorry, but the fact that CFC's were destroying the Ozone layer is a fact. There is no point in you disputing this as the chemical reactions of CFC's on ozone is well established. That's why if you (well in the UK anyway) dump your old fridge it has to be done via a special unit (rather then just putting it on a dump) to recover and dispose of the gasses in the cooling system safely.

Artful Dodger: As I said, are you 100% sure that global warming is all hype? As you have just said we do have an impact on the planet....

Maybe those on the supreme court are not scientists, but those in the EPA are or have access to them don't they.

... And the scientists appear to be about 90% sure we are making an impact.

Also your Federal Climate Change Program commissioned By Bush states....

"....Studies ... show clear evidence of human influences on the climate system (due to changes in greenhouse gases, aerosols, and stratospheric ozone). ... The observed patterns of change over the past 50 years cannot be explained by natural processes alone, nor by the effects of short-lived atmospheric constituents (such as aerosols and tropospheric ozone) alone."

And that your supreme court has decided that CO2 is a pollutant.....

....".... under the federal air quality law and told the EPA it must determine whether CO2's link to climate change endangers public health or welfare."

Artful Dodger: Are you 100% sure we have no impact on this planets weather? If that's so then why did London pass a clean air act to stop the fumes from coal fires making the sir so bad that people were dying from it... Again with London or more specifically the Thames, we polluted that river so badly that if anyone fell in it at one time it was more then likely they died from poisoning?

anastasia: I think because it implies we ain't supposed to here. While I agree we have mucked things up and not really thought about our impact on this world and how our use of resources and chemicals has been reckless and in some cases very dangerous....

.... We live here, we may only be borrowing it (as the saying goes) from our children, but we live here.

We are not parasites, just foolish and often those in power or in industry just don't think things through.. or the tech is just not there to understand the impact.

Eg these new anti ageing agents with nano-tech.... No-one really knows the long term impact of using such agents on the skin, or so certain scientists are saying.

anastasia: Nahhh the earth won't dump us.... but we might do so much damage through not understanding our impact properly that the earth might become a hostile enviroment causing the deaths of millions upon millions.

..... people will be fighting over good living places and it won't be pretty.

Czuch: No, it's not just about today, most people actually (well the ones I know) are looking into the future and how things maybe. ... If governments were not then they'd be no action on Global Warming, no concern. No long term think tanks looking at what might be.

The changes Obama is trying to implement are needed for the future prosperity of America and to reduce the running costs of your country and hopefully therefore lead to a decrease in your countries national debt.

Czuch: Then maybe the way of things will have changed again and the USA economy will be on steady ground again. And no, we will all not be dead by then, some in this lifetime will get to see the results.... I plan to here for at least another 30-50 years... what about you?

Artful Dodger: So that's why both McCain and Obama both agreed that human caused climate change is real. So both right and left agree.

... No clubbing.

Czuch: I don't know... The schools here have very good computer systems whether in both public and what is called 'aided' schools (ie a school linked to a religion) ... My son's infant school has dozens of Pc's and laptops....

Energy saving here has become a big issue and modern bulbs are not that expensive and save big time.. we use several in our house... and modern heating systems (such as we have) are far more cheaper to run.

.... So if he enacts the energy saving program he'll have money for other things. And as for Iraq... I imagine that if some talking is done they can work out at least a partial withdrawal saving some dosh.

The medical records thing is doable, we've managed to set up systems in the UK so it can be done.

No quick fixes here, it's stuff that whoever is the next pres after will have to continue and probably on for many years. No-one can predict the future to far ahead, so unless some major spanner hits the works, progress towards these goals can be achieved.

.... And you know it's needed if America is going to maintain it's place in the world.

Czuch: He probably will need two terms to make all this happen, and quite frankly with people in the USA being a little annoyed with the Republican party he might get it.

And if the Republican party block Obama in such projects, then it'll just serve to prove they have lost contact with the needs of the economy and the American people.

Czuch: I'm sorry, but acted like a liberal? Somehow I doubt if that could be held to be a true summation of his actions while Pres.

And if you were a realist then you'd realise that a multiple party system is part of a democracy and that people will vote based not only on election promises but on the actions of the party whilst in power. That's why the Conservatives over here have found it so hard to get re-elected as the dominant party in UK politics since Maggie Thatcher.

Maybe you guys should watch this film.....

"Harold & Kumar escape from Guantanamo Bay" ... especially the bit about Bush..... I would post a link here, but some stuff is not suitable for children.

"you don't have to believe in your government to be a good American, you just have to believe in your country"

Vikings: Is that why under Bush the USA national debt has sky rocketed.

Czuch: I see certain conservatives that tend to be idealists with no real connection to the real world, with no real idea about what works and what doesn't work. With no real idea of peoples needs or what to do about problems except make up some strange political election promise that will never work.

So, you are trying to tell me that there are idealists in all parties... that's no surprise.

Czuch: You think John Lennon invented those ideas of communes and all... they go back to how we use to live before civilization and governments... Though I think some in Israel and other countries still like the idea.

.. Demons tend to be well... just shadows. Mostly made up things that we are just programmed to accept. Eg The McCarthy period in the USA. Mostly they are just made up by the politicians to keep you on their side rather then vote for the other side.

Czuch: Nope. Well seeing as you class me as a 'liberal' I find that complete rubbish. I stand for people having the best openings available to them, no matter what they choose to do. Regardless if it's a public or private boost up.

I really do think you have pre conceived ideas of what liberalism stands for that are wrong.

Czuch: I'm sorry Czuch, but that we are all equal or in some respects are is not a liberal idea, it is in fact a religious and philosophical idea based on religious texts and the ideas of certain great thinkers.

For example, the Bible says we are all part of the body of the sonship, just in different positions in relation to that body. So in certain respects we are all equal, but in others we are not.

But being a individual, I stand for what I think and feel and not a party.

Vikings: Isn't that then seeing as the people are elected a representation of the will of the people?

Czuch: So you can't really blame the liberals then can you, as it is an all party fault.

Parties came make policy on how education develops and is implemented, just like when they banned state religion as such from the schools... or so I gather.

.. You can't possibly be saying that it does not matter who's the Pres or has the majority in congress, etc when it comes to decisions about the future of such things as education, etc?

Czuch: Sorry Czuch, but for the last 8 years+ education has been under conservative control.

And as for your healthcare... I'm sorry, but the stories I hear of Healthcare companies taking the mickey not only in increased charges, but also in that the claim guys are encouraged to try and turn down applications and get awarded for doing so is rather naughty.

Artful Dodger: Yeah me... political opposites.

Czuch: head in sand? I didn't think the digital age allowed that much to happen in openly democratic country's... The freedom of information act is one example of such democracy where groups and individuals can obtain info from our Gov that is not considered 'secret' and going to put us at risk.

If people are putting their heads in the sand then it's only because they have been programmed not to think by certain bodies in high office. I watched one episode of the show "Boston Legal" that implied that your education has become lacking compared to certain other countries.. such as ours.

Is that true?

Vikings: I'm still waiting for the bug to be fixed re my favourite boards...

Three pits of hell I wouldn't mind so much if they came up Hades, Ghenna and Sheol