Fencer: I stand corrected. I plan to transfer exactly the same philosophy to my own business starting tomorrow!

pgt: Cool, let me know if you were successful.
Something different - does anybody play Grasshopper? Would it be interesting to implement it here?

Fencer: Lol. It would be very interesting to implement it, but that's a game that only one can play - the programmer!

I'd vote for perfection in the existing games myself before effort went into new games but Grasshopper does look like it would pose some interesting new challenges.

Fencer: sounds interesting

(and might not be that hard to add ? :))

Woolsey's Law

To double or not to double, that is the question. What should our thought process be?

First of all, we (mentally) move to the other side of the table and ask ourselves the following question: If we were doubled in this position, would we take? There are three (not two) possible answers to this question:

1) Yes, I'm absolutely sure it is a take.
2) No, I'm absolutely sure it is a pass.
3) I'm not 100% sure.

If the answer is (1 - Take), then it still might be correct to double. This would be the case if there were a significant chance that on the next exchange (we roll, he rolls) he will now have a big pass. If the position is that volatile, it is proper to double even if the take is easy. Otherwise it is correct to wait.

If the answer is (2 - Drop), then it still might be correct to double. This would be the case if either the gammon chances were small or if there were a significant chance that after the next exchange (we roll, he rolls) he will now have a big take. Otherwise it is correct to wait and play for the gammon.

If the answer is (3 - Hmmmm), then it is always correct to double. I have written this elsewhere calling it Woolsey's Law. It is valid in virtually all situations. The only possible exception may occur when you are well ahead in the match and the double would put you out or nearly out. In this situation it may pay to be conservative. Otherwise, follow Woolsey's Law. You won't go far wrong.

Source: Backgammon Galore

i have 2 questions about the cube games :

• whats the max to which you can double ? (64 or no limit?)
  
• what happens if i resign a game (3-0 behind in a 5 pnt match, both already bearing off) will the resign button make me resign the game (making it 4-0) or does it make me resign the complete match ?
  

Hrqls: On this site at this time, 32 is the max. This is becayuse 21 is the biggest match, so if the game is worth 32 neither player will get the choice to double any further.

Your question really only matters when gambling is involved.

Resign button resigns the current game only, so in your example you would be 4-0 down after resigning.

grenv: BUT be careful about resiging before bearing off -- the value of the resignation is based on the current board position, so if you resign before bearing off you will be resigning a gammon (double game), or backgammon (triple game), depending upon where your checkers sit.

alanback: I know, he clearly stated in the question that both players had borne off.

grenv & alanback: ah thanks! i didnt know there was a maximum of match length :)

i waited until i was bearing off as well so it wouldnt be counting as a (back)gammon

it would be nice if the resigning message would show how many points the opponent would gain by this resing

Hrqls: It does, but I think it only tells you if the points gained by the opponent is greater then one.

grenv: wow! you are right .. i missed that part .. great :)

*all hail fencer* :)

Hrqls: Lol. You missed it because it didn't say it or because it's easily missable?!!!

All hail Fencer to highlight that warning!!

playBunny: Actually it's quite clear and bold. I suggest reading bold text before clicking.

grenv: It's clear once you know it's there but several people have missed it. All it would take is a splash of paint...

Talking of colour... If the match score isn't going to be moved up beside or above the board then putting it in colour would be a helpful alternative. At least the eyes will spot it immediately when scrolling down to find the score.

playBunny: No, put it in big writing above the board please. It is so often used in strategy that I believe it is almost as important as what position the pieces are on the board.

grenv: Oh, I quite agree but it ain't gonna be moved. I reckon that's total pie in the sky. Adding colour is a suggested alternative.

playBunny: Its already in red in the swedish/norweigian translation

Andersp: Not when I tried it.

grenv: looks red to me

http://brainking.com/se/ShowGame?g=1139898&a=10

Andersp: just checked - not red for me (english)

BIG BAD WOLF: did you click my link..im talking about the swedish site

Andersp: yea, but it automaticly takes me to the english version. Plus I'm unable to see your "resign" page since it is not my game.

So I clicked on "resign" for one of my games and it was still in black. (then clicked to continue in game and not resign)

BIG BAD WOLF: Ok..i see..well for those who play "in swedish" its a red warning

9 poäng match med dubblingskub (#2)
Turnering: South Pacific Cube Backgammon
Partiets ID-nr: 1152741, Matchens ID-nr: 37576
Din ändrade BKR efter detta spel: vinst: 2213 (+5), remi/oavgjort: 2205 (-3), förlust: 2198 (-10)
Det är imsoaddicteds tur.
Ställning: grenv: 1.0, imsoaddicted: 0.0
Resultat av avslutade spel (imsoaddicted - grenv, Backgammon): 0 : 0 (= 0)
Tid per drag (?): 2 dagar, This was red -->inga fria dagar (4. November 2005, 10:13:58 är sista tidpunkten för draget innan timeout)
Offentligt spel (synligt för andra spelare)
Rankat spel (resultatet kommer att räknas i spelarens BKR)
Brädesstorlek: 1 (ändra)
Layout: kolumner (ändra)
Fria dagar: Lördag och Söndag (ändra)
Din motståndare utnyttjar automatisk semester (?)

grenv: did you click "resign" and looked above the game..or are we not alking about the same warning? :)

Andersp: Ok, we were talking about the score. You went back to the resignation warning. :)

grenv: yes i replied to a post with the headline "Resignation warning" :)

Andersp: "It's already in red in the swedish/norweigian translation"

Way to go Sweden/Norway!

Are you gonna bump up the font size of your match scores and put them in blue? If you do then I shall go green.

playBunny: have 18 other entries to translate first...we must make Fencer happy as you know

playBunny: lol .. i just realised it was in the same game ... so i only would only lose 1 point .. i think thats why it didnt show .. and why i didnt see it :)

i just tried to resign another game and clearly saw the message that i would lose 8 points if i would definetly resign :)

Andersp: ah nice!i already read the message when i checked the page .. as i already read the messages .. but this makes it stand out much better

i didnt know the translators could add colors as well in any part the wanted .. i thought it could be done in the parts in which fencer allowed :)

nice! will have a look what i can do in the dutch translation (somewhere later this week)

Hrqls: I didnt ask for Fencers permission so dont blame me if you get in trouble! LOL

Andersp: lol .. i just wont make it red .. so he cant blame both of us at the same time ;)

I should be forced to move out of my opponents home in this game, however if I want to cheat I can move the 5 and NOT the 3... what's up?

LionsLair: oops! this game
http://brainking.com/en/ShowGame?g=1046552

LionsLair: You can still move a three - in your home quarter.

LionsLair: You don't need to move out of your opponents home. You could just use the 5 and the 3 on your side of the board.

bumble:
duh.... brain fart!

LionsLair: You should have moved out of your opponent's home anyway! ;-) At that stage of the game your own home table is your only asset. Breaking your home table should be done with the utmost reluctance. You drastically reduced its effectiveness by moving 6/1 4/1. A 3-point table is next to useless at holding an opponent. Better would have been to run, 22/14, and get the man home, hopefully to make a block on 6. That would give you a 5-point table and might save the game. The danger of your two remaining blots being hit is certainly a worry but keeping those back men safe is pointless if, when they get a chance to take action, it's ineffective.

playBunny: Quite right.

statement : the more pieces in a game of backgammon, the less influence luck will have

of course hypergammon takes this to its extremes, but does this also count for crowded backgammon and race backgammon vs normal backgammon and nackgammon ?

any opinions ? :)

Hrqls: I think I agree with your statement.

As a side issue in this topic, here's an opinion poll...

What, in your judgement, is the best order for the following in terms of how much luck is involved? (Highest luck factor at the top).

   • Backgammon
   • Backgammon Race
   • Crowded Backgammon
   • Hypergammon
   • Nackgammon

playBunny:


Hyper Backgammon
Backgammon
Nackgammon
Crowded Backgammon
Backgammon Race

playBunny:

Hyper Backgammon
Backgammon Race
Nackgammon = Backgammon
Crowded Backgammon

not sure about the middle, but to me BG race must have the least luck involved since the games take the longest on average and therefore have the higher number of rolls, giving luck a chance to equal out.

redsales: Possibly true, but in much of the early part of the game there are not the same type of decisions to make as there are straight away in backgammon.

redsales: For example, if I invented a game where you just raced pieces around the board with no capturing, it wouldn't matter how long the game was, it would always be 100% luck.

Therefore the type of decisions that need to be made by the player is also an important factor.

grenv: i totally agree, and the different decisions required in the different phases of the game also contributes to skill being more important. For example, in hyper, one can play many games without capturing or even having the opportunity to capture. It makes the skill set far more limited. In race, you need more of a repetoire.