My conjecture is that players who roll more doubles win more games but does anyone have a way to test that?

Thad:

I would say of course because it's an advantage especially at bear off. But the player should be experienced enough to use the good dice well.

Maybe you can find the verification from the internet.

Thad: My suspicion was that they'd just make a switch (of one die?  or maybe both--but that would seem too obvious, wouldn't it?) whenever a game was about to become a straight race.  But it might be interesting to test whether a switch made at the start would be a help, as Thad suggested.

wetware:
I thought we talk about normal BG without any trick.

wetware: With both dies changed : [ 294 ( = 36 * 7 + 6 * 7, the usual sum of all rolls) + 30 (10 rolls with a 2 changed to 5) + 12 (1 roll with a double 2 changed to a double 5) ] / 36 = 336/36 = 9 1/3. Enough to win most of the long races !

I will leave the "one die" to someone else, but beware, it is higher than halfways between 8 1/6 and 9 1/3.

wetware: You are right ! I spotted the trap with one die and fell into it with two dice :-)

wetware: Since I counted only two double 5s (the usual one and the former 22) instead of four, I probably missed twice 10 pips, so the grand total would be 336 + 20 = 356, and the average 9 8/9. Better ?

nabla: Yes, very good.  And with just 1 die modified, I've finally come up with 8 5/6 pips per roll (in the range you expected).

Ok, you sorta lost me there. Why are we changing the dice?

Thad:Someone was caught using altered dice in a European tournament.

Thad: No dice change here, Thad...as far as I know    :-)

I was just exploring the specific difference that would have resulted from the kind of cheating that took place, according to a news story that I provided a link to (below) a few days ago.

That news story wasn't too clear as to whether just 1 die or both of them were changed, nor did it specify how or when the change was made.

wetware: No dice change here, Thad...as far as I know :-)

That's because you misunderstood Thad's post! He was supposing that in the existing game, with the existing dice, the receiver of the most doubles has the greater chance of winning. It's an intuitively appealing idea but he's asking whether there's any empirical data to confirm it. That's why he gave the post the title Doubles Theory rather than Dice Cheating.

Ah, yes, I read about that.

Novice question: Wouldn't having both players use the same dice fix that? The game would be fair even if the dice weren't. Or would that create new problems (other than breaking tradition)?

And as for my original question, the reason I mentioned it is because I was wondering if moving three checkers instead of four would make for an interesting variant. It seems like having to move three checkers would force a player to leave oneself open to a hit more often than when moving four checkers. That might balance out the higher pips per roll of doubles. I thought it would be an interesting variant.

Thad:It would only be "fair" if both players were aware of the substitution, and were equally experienced in playing with the altered dice.

2">http://brainking.com/en/Tournaments?trg=29952&trnst=0&u=2741

2 x 7 point matches with cube, 2-day time limit, autopass

Gordon Shumway: I've finally gotten around to downloading and installing MATFixer.  Thank you for a job well done!

wetware: Oops, you just reminded me that I wanted to include Nackgammon files ages ago

I'm glad you like it!

Gordon Shumway:

MATFixer is a very good tool. Thanks for doing this. Now I can analyse also Matches.

Bye
Rudi

Please sign up -> 8000 :D & 1200 ;) (single elimination for 8, Fisher's clock 3/0.8/15 with autopass & immediately start)
More informations about Fischer's clock on BrainKing & BrainRook

Grasshopper - I need 3 players more

&

Grasshopper - I need 4 players more

aaru:I have no idea what all that means.  Give me plain old backgammon with a cube :-)

alanback:
Please sign up -> 8000 :D & 1200 ;) (single elimination for 8, Fisher's clock 3/0.8/15 with autopass & immediately start) WITHOUT CUBE (for this moment Grasshopper is only without cube)
More informations about Fischer's clock on BrainKing & BrainRook

Grasshopper - 2
&
Grasshopper - 2

aaru: Shall we play chess without a king next?

grenv: Shall we play chess without a king next?

Are you referring to Grasshopper being without the cube?

playBunny: yep

grenv: Then I think that your analogy is both too strong and too weak. It's too strong because Chess without the king is not Chess whereas any gammon game without the cube is still the same gammon game. The scoring changes, as well as a touch of tactics, but not the game itself.

On the other hand, the cube/king analogy is too weak. If you said. referring to the game of Grasshopper itself, "Shall we play Chess where all the pieces are the same, get placed on the board one after the starting with an empty board, and where the pieces must start in the centre and each piece must touch another, and whereby placing any piece which forms lines of opponent pieces which are "bracketed" by that piece and another of the player's get turned into pieces for that player?" then you'd be about right in matching Grasshopper to Backgammon.

Or putting it a different way, if the board was unrolled so that it was flat and went in only one direction and the quadrant boundaries were drawn as hedges and the peices were turned into frogs then Grasshopper could be called Froghopper and nobody would think that it was derived from Backgammon any more than Reversi is derived from Chess.

playBunny:You might add that backgammon without the cube is an integral part of backgammon with the cube, since most matches include a Crawford game and other cube-dead situations.

I like this tool.  GABBI is--according to their web page--"...a free web utility that allows you to create and save a backgammon board
diagram. You can create the board manually and/or import/export to or from gnubg."

GABBI--Generate A Backgammon Board Interactively

Nice for creating board positions from my crazy games that I can then paste into emails for my pals!

(If you've got your own favorite utilities, please let me know.)

wetware: I tried to load that url on firefox 3 IE7 and also google chrome and none of them worked?

paully: I can't explain that.  It works for me on either firefox 3.0.3 or IE 7.0.5730.11.
I know Chrome is not supported at this time.

Please sign up -> 1500 ;), 10000 :D, 1600 ;) (single elimination for 8, Fisher's clock 3/0.8/15 with autopass & immediately start)
More informations about Fischer's clock on BrainKing & BrainRook

Grasshopper - I need 2 players more
&
Grasshopper - 4
& other games

Marian_colonelu has a number of times offered a draw in matches where I am about to win.
I know this is not exactly cheating, but some players clicking quickly may not notice and then accept
Please beware of this type of behaviour

paully:
Thanks

kocmoc should have all wins stripped from him.
he is possibly a multi nick with WildBoy or even if not, there is considerable cheating to attain the rating in Hyper Backgammon that he has
kocmoc's profile even shows he is wild boy as his profile reads as such
"kocmoc (wild boy)"

Here are some examples of cheating

1. He has played 18 games against WildBoy and won every one of them. This is virtually impossible.

2. Here is an example of an intentional bad move to allow his kocmoc ID to win the game
Hyper Backgammon (kocmoc vs. WildBoy)
With black clearly losing, black chooses not to hit with the 18 to 14 move a no brainer

3. Here is another example of an intentional bad move to allow his kocmoc ID to win the game
Hyper Backgammon (WildBoy vs. kocmoc)
The dice 5-4 should have been used to go from the 2 point to the 11 point sending black to the bar.
Instead, WildBoy opts to set his own pieces up for black to take them

This is blatant obvious multi nick cheating that should lead to kocmoc getting all his ratings stripped from him and any multi nicks banned from the site.

This message has also been sent in a pm to Fencer for his use.

paully:
They should kicked out all!!! Damn cheater!!!

719 moves -> AntyTryktrak (aaru vs. Lu-Tze)

I limited the joining this time to allow no pawns.
Any pawns who wish to play me please feel free to send an invite

Thanks

Gordon Shumway: the link wont work for me?

paully and others interested in MATfixer:

Those old links seem to have been corrupted.  This ought to work:  http://toedder.net/bk/matfixer.zip

wetware: thanks so much for all your help with that Gerard. It was much appreciated and always good to see someone going out of their way to help others

What do you think about this:
http://brainking.com/cz/ArchivedGameList?u=74454&op=73476&tp=23

All games between these two won by NODDY, resigned by PVAHT. NODDY is the current leader of the backgammon ranking, BKR 2797.

Pedro Martínez: What's "Dumb" in Estonian?

playBunny: My guess: "Noddy". Will check that in a dictionary.

Pedro Martínez:

That's a damn cheating!!!! What other will you expect from the eastern mafia????

Pedro Martínez: i messaged fencer and he fixed it up. They no longer have their ladder positions

Hi all,
I am looking to start a backgammon club for any users here that live in Winnipeg
Currently the only players I know in Winnipeg are
Myself paully and
pops635

If anyone else is living in Winnipeg and would like to start a club with me, let me know by PM

Also if you do not live in Winnipeg but are close enough to travel, feel free to also respond

Thanks

You can also join my fellowship
Winnipeg Backgammon

AlliumCepa: But Winnipeg is in Manitoba, isn't it? Or is 750 miles "close enough to travel"?