I think the analysis of the chancellor endgame is not very important. You can see light that White`s positions becomes bader after Black`s rook invades in the white position with 40..Re2!and after 49.Cxg2 the position is probably
lost for White because he loses now many of his pawns and now with enough time of consideration it is only a question of Black`s technique until he can realize his win.
More interested is the question why the better position of White until the 38.Move now was lost!
Ed found a very good move with 38...d6-d5!!, so my move 38.Bh3-g2?? was a mistake and loses the advantage.
I have to prove a better move, which doesn`t White allow to play 38..d6-d5.
Better seems to be at first sight 38.Cf4!? or 38.Ce5!? Comments?

I see another position which might seem a little confusing.

white to move

From the prior sequence black allowed the a-pawn to fall. Why?

I had already worked out a way to exchange chancellors if Cxa7 was played. It is odd to say this, buy Cxa7 was actually a bad move in that position!

The game could drag on with Chancellors checking each other ad infinitum, so the only way to end the game was to aggressively seek a Chancellor trade. The only way to do this was to set up a check that also is in the same rank or file as the white chancellor.

Independent of white's choices, after Cxa7 I could set up such an exchange, and this is exactly how the game was concluded.

I will have to annotate the ending of that game (I do not think it would be possible to annotate the whole thing.) I learned a lot about Chancellor and Pawn endings from it, and there are some new strategies for when to give up your checking sequence and allow yourself to be checked.

I am assuming my move 54...i6 is the source of some confusion. I thought about this move for a long time before making it. The rest of the game we pretty much played at a rate of about 2 minutes per move. We were both online and I guess we were both anxious of the outcome before CaissasDream went on vacation.

Here is the start of the difficult portion of the ending

white to move

This is where I stopped checking as black and allowed white to give check, only for his checks to expire at the moment when I could play ...Cd2+ which wins the b3 pawn and established 3 connected passed pawns on the queenside.

There is too much to write about here, but that is a good start.

Well, I see from http://www.gothicchess.org/brain_king.html
that CaissasDream is now 16-1-1 and GothicChessPro is 48-0! I looked at their game today and it was incredible!! CaissasDream was 16-0 with 1 draw before Ed beat him in an incredible Chancellor and pawn ending. You guys should look at the game! The moves that were made in the ending are too complex to believe. I wish someone would explain it to me!

And Fencer, why is Ed's rating only 2134 with a 48-0 performance that includes beating almost all of the top players...Danoschek(1994)twice and CaissasDream(2094) and it looks like he has a strong or even winning position against DescenterKM(2191), as well as, doing a pretty good job on me too! Are the ratings being adjusted properly?

I think it is some exciting stuff. Check it out by clicking here and feel free to post your comments.

Click on Order your set if you want one. To see what one looks like up close, click on this link

And you can order 2 sets for twice as much money, a real bargain :)

Well, the good news is, Zillions is weak at Gothic Chess. The branching factor is still too high. It plays maybe at the 1600 or 1700 level overall, but I have yet to see it play an endgame over the 1500 level.

The best way to defeat these programs is with your mind. When I play games on here, I set up two Gothic Chess boards. One with the parent position, and another as an analysis board. For every move for every game I take it down as far as I can, usually 20 or 30 moves ahead. Then I look at the other board, set the position up again, then play down the line in the same fashion. Eventually you get the sense for the type of ending you can force, and the kind your opponent may be able to steer clear of. Knowing this, you can make strategic moves to get even masters in trouble.

That way I can play well beyond the scope of any program, and I have yet to have any problems.

Of course, the hypothetical engine we were talking about is just that -- hypothetical. It may be here one day though.

Maybe we will look for some beta testers in the near future. I am not sure if anyone would be interested in doing this.

I came to BrainKing to play variations of the usual board games such as checkers, and chess because of the rampant use of programs. After learning about zillions from this DB I saw at the said site that there are programs for nearly all of the games that are played here. "BUMMER" I saw a plug-in for gothic evolution chess but not the version here. I personally think that having a Gothic Chess program available would only mean that from now on we would be playing against it and not against each other. I have been playing games on the internet for over 6 years and have seen the resulting program wars escalate almost exponentially. I was thinking of upgrading and getting in the GC tournament but with the advent of a program entering into the equation it would only end up being a battle of cpu power and not brain power. If you are tallying votes count me as a nay at least until the end of the championship. There's my $0.02.

Just a couple of notes:
1) "Fencer Time" is GMT+01:00 :-)
2) When we upgrade our hardware to more powerful machines, I will be able to generate this page each time a game of gothic chess is finished, so it will always reflect the real status.

Responding to Chesscarpenter on July 22: the reason I took so long signing up was the 4-day time limit. I have had to convince myself that I will check the games at least every other day. Many times when I am able to get to the computer, I call up BrainKing to find the site is "down." So I go off and read other sites, hit the e-mail, losing interest in checking BrianKing for an hour or two. Then my time is all gone, and so much for chess! If the reliability of BrainKing could be advanced a bit more, it would be more attractive. As it is, I don't know what causes the down time, but I wouldn't be surprised if it has to do with all the non-chess and non-GothicChess games being handled concurrently with the chess and Gothic games. If that is the case, then it might help out to separate the two: have one branch of the site for chess and Gothic games, which can remain active while the other branch of non-chess and non-Gothic games goes down for its frequently-needed maintenance. Is that a possibility, or am I just barking up the wrong tree?

If anyone is interested, we have just successfully integrated the BrainKing ratings on the GothicChess.org website. Now, every night at Midnight "Fencer Time", all of the win-loss-draw stats will be pushed to the GothicChess.org server.

You can click here to see the ratings format or just go to http://www.GothicChess.org/brain_king.html yourself. You might want to bookmark that page.

I created an 1800+ tournament for Gothic. Winner to receive a free Gothic Chess set. Too few of the top players have been duking it out, let's mix it up a little :)

I think the price should be such that it makes the effort worthwhile, but doesn't put people in the poorhouse.

I am not sure what the market will bear, but I think $50 for about a combined 500 hours of effort to produce and test the program should be about right.

I have given some thought to making different flavors available. For example, a free version would still give most people a battle, but if we limit it to 9 plies of search, we can be assured that it will not destroy the game playing population on here if some evil people were turning it loose on others.

Maybe the $50 version would have some additional features, like maybe 11 plies of search (maximum) and a larger opening book.

A higher end version might also have endgame databases, like those dreadful Rook and Pawn endings or Queen vs. Archbishop (now that would be cool.)

The problem is, how can we be sure that releasing a program will not kill the fun of playing online, yet at the same time give people some cool features (a strong playing partner and a worthy opponent) ?

This is the debate.

I`d probably buy it if the price is reasonable.
To be able to use it as a virtual Gothic Chess board would be the most important feature to me.

I'm all for it...I think being able to train either against a machine or with machine would quickly raise the level of play here. What's the cost? (sorry, I'm on a perpetually tight budget...)

Zillions is so weak it is not funny. I have found it makes losing moves as early as move 3 or 4 of its games. It often would push the same pawn twice in the opening, like d2-d4 then d4-d5, which is an immediate loss in about 99% of the cases! So, I have been structuring my entire opening repetoire to be "anti-Zillions", and I have yet to lose a game on here.

The reason I posed the question is because I am interested in the demand for such an engine.

For example, let's just say I were to put together a team of programmers to tackle the job of creating a program that can analyze over 250,000 positions per second (compare this to zillions at about 30,000 per second) that would have a great graphical user interface, an anti-Zillions opening book, some of my own opening cooks and improvements to games I have seen played by the "top 10" on here, do you think anyone would want to buy it?

What features would you want to see in it?

The reason I ask is because some discussion is currently going on. If the playing population on here could convince me it would be worth it, such a thing could be done, rather quickly too I might add.

And, for Janus chess fans, one small change to the starting position, and you have a Janus chess engine (although no opening book of course.)

Comments?

I agree with Juangrande it would be more interested to have a good interface like winboard in standard chess than a strong engine.But there is no chance to get both, I asked the arena-programmer,arena is similar like winboard (http://www.playwitharena.com/),
and he answered that the expense is to big for only a few people who are playing these games.He refered to the weaker "Zillions".
But it is better too because I have no fun if my opponent (and I) have strong engines with 2500 Elo like Fritz or Chessmaster on both sides
That`s the reason why I am playing chessvariants and not standard chess!

A Gothic Chess program can help out in the sense that it will mature the game for all of us in all aspects of the game, not to mention being able to play a game at your own leisure against the program which is a huge plus! As far as cheating goes...the only answer will be to play "Over the Board" tournaments to see how strong players really are! Hopefully, one day this will come to pass as I for one would love to see people playing Gothic Chess as much as Chess.

On a different note I was just wondering why only myself and one other person have signed up for the 2003 Gothic World Championship...everyone seems to be interested in a $250 tournament, so what is $50 to at least win $2000 and at least a shot at winning $150 for your section...when I read about playing in this tournament I thought it was the best idea Ed could have. Is $50 that steep that no one wants to enter or are there other reasons?

Of more immediate interest to me would be an interface (like WinBoard, for example) that could seve as a digital Gothic chessboard and that could read and save moves in PGN format. However, I do think a strong chess engine would also be nice (to play against, practice with, and analyze with). I would be more interested in an extensive endgame tablebase than an extensive opening book, but I may be in the minority. A downside to having a strong Gothic Chess engine is that some would use it to play for them in online games (as happens with chess now).

Does anybody think a program to play the game of Gothic Chess would be cool? One with an opening book, the ability to search ahead (fast, not like Zillions) and analyze positions? Or do you think that such a program might spoil the game?

Put your opinion in here, feel free to elaborate.

Ed, requested website change is done, but only for next Monday's update. Apologise for this, but really didn't have time this week to chase up on the earlier file.

PS: Know how to auto-point the bow/odyseuss account to the new account?

More-n-more 65 people showing up here without notice! :)

You might want to go to http://www.GothicChess.org/how_to_play_games.html (or just click here ) and review some of the games there. They are animated files, so you just sit back and watch a little movie.

as I am new to the game is their any place to go to get a hint of the openings to use with this game. thanks any help is needed.

I finally finished annotating my marathon game with nstre. I am working on getting caught up with the website.


http://www.GothicChess.org/gotm_2003_04.html

is the link or

click here to go there directly.

Something from a recent game. I must admit that it was unintentional, but demonstrates the usage of the additional firepower to win a 'lost' game.

I've been playing a little badly, but I hope to have a rather interesting endgame to share next week. It's called 'how to throw away two major pieces to win an endgame' ~ Hope I pull it off because there really isn't any other way to win that game :P

1. Nc3 f5 2. Nh3 e5 3. b3 Nc6 4. g3 e4 5. f3 d5 6. Ba3+ Ne7 7. Ac5 b6 8. Af2 Ba6 9. fxe4 dxe4 10. Nf4 c6 11. d3 g5 12. Nh3 Bxc3 13. Cg2 Bxa1 14. Qxa1 exd3 15. cxd3 g4 16. Nf4 c5 17. Ch4 Rc8 18. Ne6+ Axe6 19. Cxh7+ Kg8 20. Qh8# 1-0

I put your flags there intentionally :)

I like the Czech and Slovak flag at the
Additional International Shipping box. Were the flags chosen randomly or is there some hidden pattern? ;-)

Orders are now being accepted for the next batch of sets that will arrive in August.

This is the order link for those that are interested.

Thanks.. I just saw it listed at the top of the webpage..;)

The tournament will start on September 1.

I was curious as to when you had to be registered by. I didn't see it listed anywhere here or on GothicChess.org, so I figured this would be the place to ask..

Thanks,

Brian

Registrations are now being accepted for the World Championship Qualification tournament. Whoever wins this event will receive a MINIMUM of $2000 and earn the right to play me for the title of World Champion.

For more details, go to GothicChess.org and follow the links.

There are prizes of $150 for each section winner, so there is a 1 out of 8 chance you will win money in this event!

Here is a chance that doesn't come along everyday I'd imagine -- an archbishop forking 4 (count 'em - 4) major pieces in one move. You can see it HERE. My A simultaneously attacks the opponent's K, Q, C, & R. Felt very satisfying. I hope you'll agree.

In my match against Tonyh (http://brainking.com/game/ArchivedGame?g=117017),he has a little advantage at the beginning o the endgame after my to careless playing.Even so Tonyh lost this match after a long endgame.At which position did he mistaken? Who helps me with an analysis?

And to ensure that the link (and any other BK-related links) will really work for everybody, use relative URLs instead (<a href=/game/Tournaments?trg=822&tri=3319>) :-)

For those of you who tried to unsuccessfully join up using the link below, I think I have fixed it now.
W. :)

Join up in a Janus section, HERE.

Sets are $36 mailed anywhere in the United States. There is a greater cost if shipped elsewhere in the world.

Sponsors ask one question up front: What is the head count?

We are not nearly ready to begin appealing to sponsors.

idea: you could also look for external sponsors. I understand Intel might be keen on computer gaming if you would talk to them.

How much are the chess sets?

What I am thinking is that maybe (for bunnies like me unlikely to get past the first round) it would be the extra enticement to get me in. It would mean the entrance fee might need to increase to say $75 but that way every participant gets some recognition of being in the comp and doesn't go away empty handed. It would be great for working through games and could be embossed with something like "PARTICPANT IN THE FIRST WORLD GOTHIC CHESS CHAMPIONSHIP". Probably wouldn't work next time (as many would already have sets) but that is a while away. It would also have the benefit that it gets the tangible product out into the world and not just left being played (for most of us) on here.

Comments? [Revsion 1]

When figuring out the payouts, why not include some other things like mugs, board, etc... (other non-cash items).

That would be a $300 payout per $400 of entrance fees, leaving nothing of substance for the winner.

The formula will be:

$150 per preliminary section round winner, no matter how many sections.

If we used your example, with 16 sections and a second tier of payouts, then only $1600 would be available to the FINALIST who gets to play me for the world championship.

I think you will agree a split of $1000 to the winner then $600 to the runner up is rather thin for such a grand title.

The finalist who wins the whole thing will get another $125 times the total sections playing at the start. With your 16 section example, that is $2000 for the finalist.

Are you taking into account rounds 2 and 3 having the $150 dollar payout as well? Or just round 1?

If there was 16 sections of 8 players in round 1, assuming that there is only one winner per section, there would be 16 players divided into two sections for round 2. Would the winners of those two sections also get the $150?

I am thinking $50 to enter, with 8 player sections. The winner of each section gets $150, no matter what, paid immediately as the results are determined.

This way there is one payout for every 8 entrants, independent of the total number of players.


There would then be a payout to the finalist who wins this event, and this dollar amount would depend on how many sections we have.

My thoughts are that this payout should be very, very high. Like ridiculously high.

When the person plays me thereafter, it would be for a trophy and a title with the money depending only on how many are in the tournament.

Some examples:

8 sections of 8 players will produce 8 winners of $150. The person who wins the tournament would get an additional $1000 and gets to play me for the title of World Champion, but there is little money left over for this.

The more sections we have, the richer the payout is.

10 sections, $1250 to the winner
15 sections, $1875 to the winner
20 sections, $2500 to the winner

What do you guys think?

I certainly would play!!! I think only the top 2 players should get money, but I'm sure if we got 200 or more players in the tournament that we can have an alternate winning formula prepared. September isn't that far away but i think $50 is a steal of an entrance fee to win this kind of money! Also, I think Ed's offer of playing him to win an additional $1500 is very generous and we would be crazy to turn this down.

I would like to play but I currently have no extra money to pay. On the other hand, the situation can be better on September :-)

I might. But I'm hoping that maybe the top 10 could get a little bit of return, somewhat like in golf, so there is some hope of a return even if you dont make it all the way.