this is a board that talks about issues concerning animals...your own pets as well as animal rights,alerts,bills before congress that need our attention.This is a family board but as abuse cases may be posted it may not always be for the sensitive readers.Please be kind to each other,thanks!
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Subjekt: Re: White-Tail Deer Hunting Season starts in my neck of the woods tomorrow.....
srnity: I know they are beautiful... but if humans didn't control the deer population you would have hundreds of thousands or even millions die (just in my state) because they wouldn't find enough to eat... so instead... hunting is allowed. Of course it is regulated so a deer population is maintained instead of either completely hunted away or not hunted at all and they all die off... hmmm... what should we do? We took away their natural predators, and now we have to make up for it by hunting. :-)
Plus venison tastes very good! mmmm...
You must live in the city or somewhere with very few deer... if you lived where I grew up or where I am going to school you would understand... we are run over with deer! I counted 100 before I stopped that were hit and lying on the side of the highway. It was only 40 miles! (Some of this was going through some populated areas too!) They are everywhere... You ever seen a locust swarm? It is sort of like that, only deer ;-)
Subjekt: Re: White-Tail Deer Hunting Season starts in my neck of the woods tomorrow.....
rednaz23: maye if we stopped intruding in their territory by constantly having to develope everything...new shopping malls,new housing developments...Lord forbid they come into where WE live..oh wait..that USE to be where THEY lived...once apon a time
Subjekt: Re: White-Tail Deer Hunting Season starts in my neck of the woods tomorrow.....
rednaz23: Don't they fence the roads off? We have forests with deers and wild horses over here and you don't get alot of road kill as the roads are fenced off and access points have grids to stop them wondering onto the roads.
Plus many many signs saying "kill your speed and watchout for wildlife".
Subjekt: Re: White-Tail Deer Hunting Season starts in my neck of the woods tomorrow.....
Jules: That causes inbreeding with the deer, so that is frowned upon here. Plus the United States is huge and has millions of miles of road. Fencing them all off means twice as much fence, which is a huge cost to our limited budget already... So we don't do that...
As for society entering their territory, yes and no, but the real reason they have become out of control (and why we need hunting) is because humans fear the predators more so then abundant deer. The worry of one of these predators taking a child, a dog, some sheep, is more threatening than 'excess deer', which is wanted by a large population anyways... so that is the way it is.
BTW, Deer cost insurance companies billions of dollars a year, but it also spurs ten fold that in other industries... I know areas where I live that live on 6 weekends a year... the hunting weekends. :-) It is very wanted by society in general, and many that live in big cities don't understand, nor take the time to learn.
Subjekt: Re: White-Tail Deer Hunting Season starts in my neck of the woods tomorrow.....
Zmenené užívateľom srnity (2. decembra 2007, 08:18:28)
rednaz23: I live in the mountains (about as rural as your getting for the state of PA) and I think it truly SUCKS that things are "hunted", be it deer, bear, quail, pheasant, turkey, squirrel, whatever, in my life, they ALL have a right to their existence (but then I don't eat meat either, the "carcass" thing is just disgusting to me). Humankind has definately over-encroached upon the wilderness areas of this country, state forests and game lands are all that's left of it here pretty much. I just think if a man (or woman) has such an urge to kill something, they should at least be required to do so by hand, doesn't seem very "manly" to shoot dead an animal grazing in the field to me...
***And as for predators, bring on the wolves, the coyotes, and mountain lions, at least that would be nature's way and not man's, true?
Subjekt: Re: White-Tail Deer Hunting Season starts in my neck of the woods tomorrow.....
rednaz23: If they cost billions in insurance then a few million a year spent on a fencing program for high risk areas seems to be a small expense. And if done properly then deer will have limited crossing areas with high visual signs to tell drivers to slow down.
It saves countless road kills over here and does not cause inbreeding.
Subjekt: Re: White-Tail Deer Hunting Season starts in my neck of the woods tomorrow.....
Jules: I live in Ohio..in the states..all of our major interstate highways are fenced off...My husband actually helps WRITE UP the work orders for fencing that needs to be repaired..as for the inbreeding thing...never heard THAT one before...I agree with srnity...the "natural preditors" SHOULD be allowed the do what nature intended them to do.Back in the day...people did hunt...for food..everything was more balanced then BECAUSE you didn't have all the issues with lost natural space...Isn't it a shame that deer and other wildlife...only have the parks left to live in and what little natural spaces,like where Srnity lives (my Mom and Dad also use to live in a VERY rural,wooded spot in PA) I see both sides of the hunting issue...do I agree with hunting...nope,but as long as it is for food I suppose I can see why it is done...although,with these crazy lil things called grocery stores..I guess I dont see the food need
About 40 people scoured part of Spain's rugged northwestern region of Galicia Thursday for about 1,000 minks released into the wild from a farm by animal rights activists, the regional government said.
Rex Snyder speaks to front office manager, Roberta Reimers about checking-in with his 19-month-old bison named Bert at the Marriott Hotel in Ogden, Utah Thursday, Nov. 29, 2007. Snyder, a Wyoming resident, is in town for the annual Western Bison Association Show and Sale.
Subjekt: Re: White-Tail Deer Hunting Season starts in my neck of the woods tomorrow.....
anastasia: Our New Forest works well with fencing, so do the roads I go on that use it to cut off woodland areas from the road. I've never heard of deer being killed and I know they live in the woodlands.
Hunting is limited over here, especially with guns. Too many areas with people wandering the woodlands to have high powered bullets wizzing around. Hunts are organised on the main not solo affairs.
Subjekt: Re: White-Tail Deer Hunting Season starts in my neck of the woods tomorrow.....
Jules: The deer jump the fence here alot and you DO have a bit killed on the road way...Our hunting time is also limited....I try..REALLY try not to judge poeple that hunt...I know that on some level,in the way the world is today..because of the population..because of US intruding on their land and taking their living space away,they would become over crowded...I guess what bothers me the most is the human thought that we are superior to everything and anything...we take away the animals land and then complain when they overpopulte(which if they HAD MORE land,it really WOULDN'T be over populating) we get mad when a mountain lion attacks a hiker and launch massive hunts to "find the one that did it" and kill it...just sickens me the attitude humans have is all.....and for the record..if I am EVER killed while hiking by a bear or mountain lion...DO NOT SHOOT AND KILL IT!!! lol
I live in the second worst state (Michigan) for motor vehicle-deer collisions. In 2004 (the most recent year for which I could find complete stats), we had about 60,000 collisions. In the U.S. annually, about 150 people die in such collisions. I don't know the number of deer.
Subjekt: Re:....and for the record..if I am EVER killed while hiking by a bear or mountain lion...DO NOT SHOOT AND KILL IT!!! lol
anastasia: Put me on that list also And give the bear or mountain lion "ten points" for "taking me out" - that's what the humans in my neck of the woods do when they hit a living creature with a vehicle
Subjekt: Re: White-Tail Deer Hunting Season starts in my neck of the woods tomorrow.....
Jules: My husband works for the state road dept here...any dead deer that are on road way in his county are picked up and taken to an animal sancurary that house lions,tigers,panters,other exotic animals that have been taken from owners that kept them as "pets" and rescued from road side shows.They use the dear meat to help feed them.
"There was a prog on TV where 4 wolves were killed over the death of one cow where they had just been reintroduced to the area after being killed off."
That to me is just crazy...about as crazy as the ariele hunting of wolves that takes place in the states here.It's all just sick! These people that do things like this will talk to a higher being one day!!! I don't understand....a wolf kills a cow..in the wild,THATS how things work...the wolf doesn't know that cow belongs to some farmer,so the farmer shoots and kills the wolf,or in this case wolves...a human shots and kills another human and he gets 3 years in jail and back out on the streets he goes,living his life
anastasia: I think any person of basic intelligence is aware that the fault rests with the owner of the animal.I find this situation similar to the gun issue,guns don't kill unless the trigger is pulled.Sadly in both cases, people with dangerous motives are in posession of and don't safely contain either.If there are dangerously trained pit bulls in neighborhoods populated by children,what is your solution?
Jim Dandy: EDUCATION,EDUCATION,EDUCATION!!! people see a "pitbull" and think the worst about it....9 times out of 10,it's not even a Pit.It is just a shame that people do nothing to educate themselves on this breed,they just take everything they hear/see on the news at face value...do they attack...sure....so does EVERY DOG if so provoked or trained.A dog only knows what it is taught.I have been biten by a mixed breed,a doberman,and several weiner dogs..dunno why but I have NO luck with weiner dogs,lol.
For the things irresponsable owners and back yard breeders are doing,the RESPONSABLE ones are the ones being punished.
I find it appauling that people want to ban an ENTIRE breed of dog..banning = the end of an entire breed! This breed in specific is EXTREAMLY loyal...I want people to understand that the REASON they fight is because they are TAUGHT to by their HUMAN owner(s) they fight to please their owner(s) You can beat a dog and what does it do? turn and STILL wags it's tail for you..wanting you to love it.
I do not even own a pit,but as you know I own GSD's,and they too are on many "watch lists" so..because YOU (figurativly speaking of course,lol) go letting your GSD run all over town,and it bites someone..or because YOU choose to not socalize it,leave it caged up and let it's energy become SO pent up that it becomes aggressive,I should be punished by having to put my dogs down? I socailize them,train with them EVERY DAY,take them into public NO LESS then 5 times A WEEK,have TITLES on the older one..BUT because you,and some others do not feel the need to take responsability to do so with your own..I will be punished which mean my dogs will be punished.
It irritates the piss out of me that people are on some witch hunt about this breed.15 years ago it was the rotts,and dobs,now it is the Pit.Breeders should be state licensed (ALL BREEDERS OF ALL BREEDS!) have unanounced inspetions no less then 4 times a year.A good breeder will run back ground checks,often go visit the house they are selling to,they breed for the love,quality,health and preservation of the breed..a back yard breeder breeds for money,aggression,and quantity of the dog..they could care less about the dog,they see cash.
If I can change ONE PERSON'S mind on this breed...if I can save ONE dog from death at the hands of ignorant owners and breed bans then it will all be worth it.
Everyone has a passion (I hope) in their lives..mine is animals,I will NOT stop,shut up or turn a blind eye on these dogs that are suffering at the hands of HUMANS!
anastasia: You know I love you, and I also love your love for animals. I agree in the main about most of what you are saying but my thoughts on this subject remain the same.... HUMANS should NOT breed this type of dog in the first place! Then none of this would ever happen. Its not the dogs fault its the HUMAN genetically breeding such a dog, as usual!
Ive stayed quiet about all the hunting debate because it makes my blood boil!! I agree with you about if I was out hiking etc....
Ewe: so,should ALL breeds not be bred since ALL breeds CAN be taught to fight??.Mine are TRAINED PROTECTION...should they be put down? The weiner dogs that seems ot love my ankles,they should be put down as well,yes?? OH!OH! The cat that EVERY MORNING attacks the birds under my feeder...PUT IT DOWN TOO!!
I DO understand your point,honestly BUT the thing is...your RIGHT..it is the HUMAN'S FAULT,but still we insist on punishing the DOG!
What about popsicle?? the pit that TO DATE has the LARGEST DRUG BUST ON RECORD IN TEXAS!!??!! he was found in a freezer in a trashbag left to suffocate to death.
Helen Keller...her therapy dog was a PITBULL.These are such wonderful loving dogs in the WRONG HANDS...The children in Uganda are TAUGHT to pick up a gun and go fight..CHILDREN! now a child would not,by nature just pick up a gun and go start shooting people...just as a dog,will NOT just start attacking out of the blue.
When you say they should not breed THIS type of dog at all....what does that mean? they should not breed a dog that fights and is aggressive?? I agree 100%!! But IF you are saying that the Pitbull should not be bred,well,that is just pure crap.People are judging the dog BECAUSE OF THE HUMAN!
I have a challange for EVERYONE...go to some of the sites I have posted in the past,I will repost if needed....see if YOU can pick out the "pitbull" among the other dogs...go to a pitbull resue and volunteer for a few days with these dogs...I would bet a paycheck NOBODY would because GOD FORBID your imaige of this breed is anything but bad.
anastasia: It's hard to argue with your line of logic,but you can't ignore certain reaities.The sheer strength of a pitbull puts it in another league than the weiner dog.I don't think weiner dogs or toy poodles have the potential to overpower or kill a humane being.All dogs have a degree of unpredictability,but in the case of the powerful pitbull the potential of major damage inflicted is much higher.Sure,you could mention other large breeds,but labs and many other large breeds have niether the history or predesposition that pit bulls do,it can happen,but it's rare.I think you also have to examin the ownership group of pit bulls,why do they buy them? is it the rep they are attracted to? It sometimes becomes a self fulfilling prophacy.Maybe the answer lies in the creation of stricter licensing for owners of pit bulls and their owners,that could help eliminate the irresponsible owners to a certain degree.I have a question,would you rather be locked in a room with a crazed pit bull or a crazed weiner dog?
anastasia: Ive never once said any dog should be destroyed! I strongly believe in animal rights, which is exactly why I think they should NOT CONTINUE breeding certain dog breeds who could then end up being destroyed. The pit bull debate is a classic example of this!
This is a link to a Pit friendly site ......http://www.badrap.org/rescue/resources.cfm They say Dog on Dog aggression within this breed is NORMAL....so thats bad enough for other dog owners taking their pooch for a walk!! AND ofcourse the risk to humans....
Jim Dandy: I have a question,would you rather be locked in a room with a crazed pit bull or a crazed weiner dog?....why is the pitbull crazed?? THAT is the attitude that pisses me off.There are VERY few dogs that I would never approach,but I do not base this on BREED.I WELCOME AGGRESSIVE dog legislation...but NOT breed specific,that is just wrong.check out the atts site...labs ratre LOWER the pits in temperment testing.
I dont argue that larger breeds such as pits are more powerful,sure but little dogs can and do bite,often more then larger dogs..I believe it was a pomeranian (sp) that attacked and killed a baby a few years back.
100% in agreement that these dogs often fall into the wrong hands and THIS is the problem that has to be addressed......How many shelters have you voluneered at Jim Dandy? how many pitbulls have you had personal experiance with? How many time a week do YOU take the time to read the breed history/profile,stats...and how many times a week do you talk to real owners..the ones that love the breed for the breed,NOT the rep of having it??
Ewe: I wasn't sure WHAT you meany Ewe,lol...if you meant the breed should be destoryed or not...but IF you ban a breed...what happens to it? It ceases to exsist.
O.k....let me take your side of this...lets say all pits are banned...there are no more pits in the world for people to own...do you HONESTLY think that the criminals that once owned and fought them are going to just say..."oh shucks fellos..lets go home and play tic-tak,toe."??? I highly doubt it...they will find ANOTHER breed to corrupt and turn into fighters...so,let's say they pick the german sheperd...Will you then,in 20 years hate them as well and want them banned?? ok,fine...I will stop owning and training them because of others being irresponsable.....so now there are no more GSD's to own/fight,or anything else...so,now the criminals go onto yet ANOTHER breed.
I pose the same questions to you Ewe that I posed to Jim..how many pitbulls have you had personal experiance with? How many time a week do YOU take the time to read the breed history/profile,stats...and how many times a week do you talk to real owners..the ones that love the breed for the breed,NOT the rep of having it??
anastasia: Thing is I DO UNDERSTAND what you are saying! Again,.....no Ive NEVER said any animals should be destroyed, I said they should cease to breed!! BIG difference!! Yes so that breed will no longer exist! It wasnt there before, it didnt happen naturally....
Yes the 'criminals' will probably go on to another breed....cross that bridge when we come to it!
I have had some personal experience with pitbulls...some good, some bad...I personally dont have anything against them, which if you understand what Im saying you will know that already.
Zmenené užívateľom anastasia (7. decembra 2007, 23:46:27)
Ewe: no breed but the wolf exsits naturally...every domestic dog has been altered by humans
Ewe:I personally dont have anything against them, which if you understand what Im saying you will know that already. I said they should cease to breed!! BIG difference!! Yes so that breed will no longer exist!
sad you want an entire breed gone because of what man has done to it....what man fears,man destroys.
anastasia: I think we're straying from the point.My example of two crazed dogs was intended purely to point out that one of the two is much more capable of causing major damage in a scenario,it wasn't a comment on pit bulls specifically any more than it was weiner dogs.............I used to visit a shelter near my old home,there was a one eyed cat who would always act as tour guide cute as a button.I would literally roll around with them for hours.I doubt my credentials compare with yours in regards to what I do for animals on a daily basis,I admire your commitment.I do provide a forum for animal adoption in my job in the communicats field coupled with a webpage showcasing a pet of the month from my local humane society.The first time I felt a small part of finding a stray a home moved me to tears.I think this topic can be discussed without anyone having to flash credentials,don't forget,the people in this conversation all love animals,we just have different views on certain topics
Jim Dandy: beg your pardon hun...I didn't notice that the weiner dog was also crazed,lol....I would not go into a room with ANY crazed dog,Im passionate,not stupid,lol.
I am not flashing credentails...I am simply asking what PERSONAL expieriance you have had with a specific breed.To me..saying all pits are mean and should be banned,not bred,gotten rid of whatever is passing judgement like saying all african americans can dance,all asians are good at math,etc,etc.If you want to make a judgment call do it because you KNOW the entire breed,as a whole,not because of stories you have seen or heard.Have you even bothered to read anything positve on the breed? Please...look at how many law enforcements are usng pits..please..look at how many therapy dogs are pits,please look at how many top honors pits take at shows,pulling compititions...please look at how many families love their pit and would hurt anyone that tried to hurt it.why should these dogs and these responsible people be the ones that are punished?? the thugs don't obey the laws as it is...what woudld bsl do??Punish the RESPONSIBLE OWNERS and THE GOOD DOGS!
I commend you for your efforts on finding homes for animals....did you know to house every cat in the states,EACH PERSON would have to own 21...dogs would be 7...but that stat was from a few years ago so I'm sure it is a bit higher now..
anastasia: If toy poodles had the power of a pit bull we'd all be f'd,but I digress.I don't think anyone thinks ALL pit bulls are a threat,that would be silly.It's a tough issue
Jim Dandy: all dogs are created differently,that what makes them wonderful!!!! It would be silly to think ALL pitbulls are a threat just like it would be silly to ban all pitbulls.We need to get to the REAL problem and that is the idiots that abuse these dogs by fighting them.....can you tell I am weee bit passionate about bsl,lol.
I suppose my thing is..I don't understand why people wil believe all the negative without even TRYING to get to know the positive too.
anastasia: I totally understand your point,but we're living in a bottom line society.You could give examples till the cows come home.One photo of a badly maimed child on the front page of the paper trumps the zillions of examples of positive behavior,that's just how society works.Some people ask why we should even risk an attack,thus the variose bans.I can see both sides of this issue
anastasia: In my opinion,the best course of action would be to be in the forefront of those bringing the sleazeball owners to justice,that would lend credability to your messege.I disagree with a defensive approach,be on the leading edge of those wanting the riff raff sorted out.The bad guys are the ones who place pit bulls in a position to fail,society just wants safety.
Jim Dandy: The bad guys are the ones that place them in a position to fail,your right 100%...the laws enforced for animal abuse of any kind are laughable....they say they can't do much else becuase prisons are overrun with "real" criminals....ok,so be it,then give them THOUSANDS of hours of community service in shelters,MAKE them take MANDITORY classes regarding animal abuse/safety/etc.....MAke them take MANDITORY anger management and if needed drug consuling.It's not the dogs...it's the beasts at the OTHER end of the leash,the dog's are the ones being punished tho as the idiots that abuse them walk around free.Makes me sick to my stomach that people want to punish the dog.....I read summin just this morning...it said.."If you were lost,and my SAR dog was a Pit,would you stil want me to find you?" I would guess that you would...pit or no pit.
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