Tuesday: yes but again...it was YOUR decision...as I said below...get up and get over it LOL

Bernice: Well! You can bet your life that the parents of the 12 and 15 year old will pay.
Plus why advertise it? They are gonna get money for tv and newspaper reports.
It is the parents responsibilty to ensure this does not happen in the first place.
I know parents cant be watching 24 hours a day but heck. Whetre is the common sense? They must have been allowed to do it somewhere!

What is the answser? I know if it were me my parents would disowne me. Is that good or bad?

Tuesday: who are you talking about? now I am confused...

Mousetrap: well disown is a bit strong, but for sure there would be "hell to pay" LOL

Tuesday: It is difficult.
They are saying that we need more sex education in the Uk now because of this.
I would have have thought they already knew how to do sex and needed to know how to say no?

Tuesday: oops!!!.....alright, I will come down to your level......

Bernice: LMBO!

Tuesday: Reading back I get the feeling you think I was talking directly to you.....well I wasn't, I was generalising.....

If you took it personal, well I'm sorry, but you are the one out of place, not I.

There was no attack on you at all, so .......!

(hide)

hahahaha....isnt that a respond LOL

where is AD......start up another conversation bout sumpin..........PLEASE

Tuesday: OK. How about LMAO? Lol!

Tuesday: Sorry. I have to disagree with you there.
I left that Fellowship a long time ago because of its content.
This board is nothing compared to that.

I'm confused. All I did was take a nap. 

Mousetrap: I have to agree with you there....in fact since "certain" people have been "banned" and their followers have moved on it is very quiet.
The original "PIT" has one post for January and before that the last post was November....they have gone real dead.

The only thing this fellowship has is more posts

Artful Dodger: YOUR confused....how do you think I feel

Bernice:I'm supposed to be in Arizona but I've been sick for over a week.  All I've done is sit in this chair, watch TV, play on the puter, and fall asleep.  It's finally clearing up although the coughing give me a headache. 

I'm going to go find a good topic.  Usurper will be on maybe later and I'll bet that will help steer things a bit. Where is Czuch when I need him?

Artful Dodger: "not saying a word" might get in trouble...........


zzzzzzzzzziiiiiiiiiiiiiiipppppppppppppppppp da lip

Bernice:Those were perilous days.  I just finished watching the entire series from the History Channel on WWII.  Churchill's leadership was essential at that time in history.  But I suppose I can understand Obama's reluctance to keep the bust in the White House.  Sill, the incident with his great granddad can't diminish his positive contribution in WWII. 

Czuch:

“You seem to tell us that conservatives are wrong somehow because we dont take into account changes like evil corporations and the federal reserve, in our society since our countries founding, but you dont seem to explain in what way we dont take them into account”

I did explain in what way. You don’t recognize how they are systems designed to funnel the wealth from the working man to the mega-rich, how insidious is the process, or how devastating its impact. I say you don’t recognize it because there is no evidence that you do. So alien is the concept to you, you couldn’t even make sense of my clear exposition on the point.

“[N]or do you explain in what way liberals have taken them into account in a better way”

I have not been discussing Liberals at all. My focus has been entirely on Conservatives. Liberals have their own issues, and in some ways their worldview is deeply flawed also, in my opinion. But I have not analyzed it here. Nor do I consider myself flawless. I am always learning. God forbid I fall into the mental rut of a typical conservative.

“[W]e dont say that if you dont work you shouldnt eat... we say its just not the responsibility of the federal government to feed you!”

I hope you WOULD say, “if you don’t work you shouldn’t eat,” because that is the case, unless a person is too young or incapacitated in some way. But that is right, you make the case that it isn’t the government’s responsibility to feed people. That is the argument that I am attempting to counter in my long-winded exposition (not fully developed, the second part completed hopefully tonight.)

This will thrill Lisa G…

My general point is that it is humanity’s duty to “feed humanity,” i.e., to be one’s brothers’ keeper, in all that entails, and to use any & all powers and avenues we have available to do so. And, that unless, and until, we do so, we are failing our neighbors. And the more particular charge that I am leveling against Conservatives is that the line they put between public & private charity is antiquated, is simplistic, is a double standard, and is inadequate. I further charge that this false line masks conservative hypocrisy, in that betrays a real & fundamental lack of empathy for those who suffer. I don’t mean all conservatives lack this empathy. But conservative leaders certainly do, and it is the general mindset of modern American Conservatism.

In the second half of my argument, I will further charge that conservatives are also hypocritical in considering themselves “compassionate,” in that the evidence indicates they would prefer blowing up civilians in other countries to feeding & clothing civilians here.

“You make it sound as if liberals are just a more modern thinking conservative, that you have taken conservatism to a new and higher and better level?”

Again, I have not been discussing Liberalism. But in most ways, I think you may be right on that. Liberals have their faults, but in general they are more advanced in their thinking than Conservatives, and more aware of the complexities of the modern world. They are also, in general, more empathetic towards those who suffer.

“Conservatives also do not deny any child education or health care, no matter their parents situation....”

They certainly do. I think I explained it pretty clearly in my long post. But here’s a case in point: Conservatives resist Universal Health Care, even though multiple millions of children have no insurance. And many of these children need care NOW, not perhaps tomorrow or the next day when some private philanthropist happens to be in a good mood.

Tuesday: Coming from you, that is a high compliment indeed. (I'm dizzy)

and if they upset anybody....bad luck..................
****************************************************************
Subject: 3 inspirations

" If you envy successful people, you create a negative force field of attraction that repels you from ever doing the things that you need to do to be successful. If you admire successful people, you create a positive force field of attraction that draws you toward becoming more and more like the kinds of people that you want to be like."
--- Brian Tracy



" When you talk about your troubles, your ailments, your diseases, your hurts, you give longer life to what makes you unhappy. Talking about your grievances merely adds to those grievances. Give recognition only to what you desire. Think and talk only about the good things that add to your enjoyment of your work and life. If you don't talk about your grievances, you'll be delighted to find them disappearing quickly."
--- Thomas Dreier


" When the archer misses the mark, he turns and looks for the fault within himself. Failure to hit the bull's eye is never the fault of the target. To improve your aim -- improve yourself."
--- Gilbert Arland

Bernice: They came from me.

Brian1971: Good food for thought.

Brian1971: well thank you so much.....your little messages are read and appreciated....so don't think I ignore them

I didnt like to use any names so that is why I said "someone"

Artful Dodger: hey, i read the last one first.....I am poor.. yes, AD, i am poor!!!

Czuch:I'll send you some government money 

Artful Dodger: EXACTLY................but is it paid for?
probably not.....Im glad Im from the old school, because if I want something I pay cash....ALWAYS...no exceptions....I put a new kitchen in last year....cash. I added another room onto my home...Cash. These days it is the norm to have things on "layaway" as we call it here is AUssie. or Time payment, hire purchase etc etc.......I wonder if POOR Usurper comes into any of those categories LOL - he did say he was poor didnt he?

Bernice:Many of the poor in America are rich by history's standards and  rich certainly by the world's standards.

Bernice: I pay by cash also. I guess that makes me more conservative than the Bush administration. :o)

Czuch: In continuation of my previous post on this topic:

3. The Conservative view is a Double Standard.

It is a double standard because conservatives claim to be opposed to Public Welfare, which they define as aid to the poor out of the public coffers, and apparently any other kind of domestic spending that can be construed, directly or indirectly, as thus benefiting the poor. Aid to the poor is a private matter, they insist, and as we have seen. If given freely in this way to those in need, it is a morally good action. But on the other hand, if a part of their tax-money is used to help those in need, they feel robbed. They are outraged. The money wasn’t freely given, it was taken from them. Furthermore, they were not allowed to choose the recipients of their charitable contributions. Thus they feel alienated from the good deed, in a sense, which perhaps even removes some of its goodness. Not only so, but they feel that perhaps the recipient who did receive the aid wasn’t worthy, in which case the money is wasted. They cannot KNOW this (that the money was wasted), though they are quick to listen to pundits who tell them this is generally the case. And it is certainly true that welfare programs in this country, in the past, have been spotty at best. The truth is, I can understand & even to some degree sympathize with the objections made above by Conservatives. Strictly speaking, what right does the government have to tell us how to spend our money? In fact, what gives the government the right to take this money from us in the first place? As we have already seen, the federal Income Tax is unconstitutional. But it is a part of the modern landscape, and has to be taken into account.

Yet, there seems to be a greater evil lurking behind Public Welfare, from the Conservative standpoint. This great evil they call “Socialism.” The chief evil of Socialism, say the conservatives, is that it steals from the Haves (the industrious) and gives to the Have-Nots (the lazy); i.e., it is a redistribution of hard-earned wealth. This redistribution is considered to be very inefficient, for two reasons: (1) the lazy man will waste this wealth without substantially improving his lot, therefore will remain a siphon off the industrious man’s wealth; and (2) the industrious man himself will lose his incentive for industry because he is not being allowed to enjoy the fruits thereof. Besides, if men are industrious, they will not be needy. And finally, Socialism is considered simply immoral because, again, it is redistribution without consent. This last argument, by itself, does have merit. In a different world (such as that inhabited by our founding fathers), it might be decisive. The first argument, that it is inefficient, is weak. Its efficiency depends on the quality of its input, as any system does. In any case, it is no less efficient than a Capitalist system which wastes incalculable resources through the destructive results of military expansionism, due to the sheer greed of its owners.

A third argument sometimes made is that Socialism is by its nature God-less. But that is not true. It is an alternative economic system, purely & simply. Contrary to the opinions of some, Capitalism is certainly not ordained by God, no matter how many so-called Christians feel a religious passion for it. The Communist governments of China & the former U.S.S.R. are/were Totalitarian regimes with Imperialistic aims. This has little to do with Socialism, per se. Likewise, the modern form of Corporate Capitalism does not reflect Adam Smith’s beneficent vision (Smith being the “father” of Capitalism, who published his “Wealth of Nations” in 1776). In the modern world, the best economic solution is probably a mixture of Capitalism & Socialism, with clear oversight of both, and provided that modern regimes (such as the U.S.A.) do not squander their wealth on bloody wars of conquest.

Be that as it may, the Double Standard among political conservatives lies in this: that they do not really oppose Public Welfare! That they do oppose it is a complete fabrication contradicted by the facts. That is, they do not oppose the redistribution of wealth which they claim is Socialism, and which they insist is immoral (for which argument, as I have said, I find some merit…but also some flaws). They do not oppose the forceful taking of a citizen’s money, without his consent, and spending it without his permission, in areas wherein that citizen would not have freely chosen to spend that money himself, and even possibly in areas wherein that citizen opposed its being spent. The robbery they rail against on the one hand, they allow & condone on the other. And this, assuredly, is a Double Standard.

What I am primarily referring to is our tax money & government debt-spending going to so-called “Defense Spending.” There are, to be sure, many pork-barrel projects in Washington, both Republican & Democrat, that use up our tax dollars. And not only tax money but, as we have seen, even more so the creation of new money by the Federal Reserve to be lent to the U.S. Treasury, thus devaluing the dollar in your wallet. Most people don’t complain about this because they simply don’t understand it. Yet by this method more wealth is taken from you than by the federal Income Tax itself. And most of the wealth siphoned off from you, either through taxes or inflation, is used for “defense spending,” i.e., it is turned over to the Military-Industrial-Complex.

Conservatives will here remind me that the U.S. Constitution mandates that we provide for the Common Defense. Agreed. But the Constitution nowhere mandates that the United States be an expansionist nation, an imperialist regime, a meddler in the affairs of other countries, or, by any means, a belligerent aggressor against other nations in war, which nations have not first attacked us! Yet this foreign aggressive behavior, as any informed individual knows, is the very essence of the “Bush doctrine.” (Palin didn’t know it, evidently.) It is preposterous on the face of it, if I may say so, to believe that our Founding Fathers envisioned the kind of arrogant assertiveness our nation has come to display upon the world stage (or to believe their arguments morally valid, if they did). But the truth is, they could not have, and did not, foresee the kind of power our Federal Government would be privileged with, once technology and central banking tipped the scales in its favor. Indeed, America is the most powerful country in the history of the world! Which means, by the way, that it also carries the most responsibility. But instead of being benevolent, we behave like the new Rome. The money we spend on the U.S. Military & related industries, making up the Military-Industrial-Complex first warned against by President Eisenhower (a Republican!), is yearly more than the rest of the world’s spending combined. To have the audacity to call this “defense spending,” simply boggles the mind. It is not “defensive,” but clearly “offensive.”

In fact, modern Conservatism can hardly be called “conservative.” The old conservatives (such as Eisenhower, and more recently William F. Buckley) fully rejected expansionist, essentially colonialist aims, for America. And that is why Buckley, for example, rejected the Bush administration. To be conservative means, for one thing, to keep things “within the budget.” Yet first Reagan, and then Bush Jr., piled up the biggest debts in the history of our Republic. Not to worry, your kids & grandkids will pay of the bill. I care not one whit for Bill Clinton, but at least he did balance the budget. For another thing, the old-time conservatives surely understood the importance of self-defense. But they reviled belligerent nations. That kind of despicable behavior was a characteristic only of evil empires like the U.S.S.R.! Yet America has now proven itself to be just as despicable. And these so-called modern conservatives embrace the evil empire America has become.

Now, to drive the point home, if so-called “Defense Spending” is not really defense spending, but something else, then it is spending for the benefit of some class or classes of people. My argument is that it is essentially spending for the rich. It is handouts to corporations who are part of the Military-Industrial-Complex, etc., at the expense of the poor & middle classes. It is a funnel of money from the poor man’s pocket to the rich man’s pocket. Again, Conservatives have no problem with this, even if they themselves become poorer as a result. Of course, they do not want to become poorer. But when they do, they falsely believe it is the fault of some poor black woman in Mississippi or some irresponsible single mother, and that is what they believe because rich men like Bill O’Reilly, hired by other rich men to misrepresent reality, tell them that. This is not to throw the total blame on Bill O’Reilly and his masters. If this misrepresentation strikes a chord in the average Conservative’s mind, it is because he prefers the Lie to the Truth.

As we see, then, there are TWO forms of Socialism at work in modern America: welfare for the poor, which is woefully inadequate & inefficient in its current form; and welfare for the rich, which runs like a well-oiled machine. Given the choice of these two forms of Socialism, I would choose the form which builds lives, feeds & houses & schools my fellow human beings. But conservatives instead choose the form which destroys lives, here & abroad; which rains Death & Destruction down upon innocents so that the wealthy backers & planners of these atrocities can take their oil…and who will even go to the extent of bombing their own citizens with false-flag operations such as 9/11, in order to provide a pretext for their crimes abroad.

What this proves, beyond the shadow of any reasonable doubt, is that Conservatives are not compassionate, as they claim to be, but rather callous to the suffering of others. At best, Conservatives are willfully ignorant. At worst, they actually take pleasure in human suffering. They do this because they are, deep down, bigots who do not identify themselves with humanity in general, but see themselves as fundamentally superior. Nor is the so-called “Christian conservative” truly Christian. By the modern definition of Christianity, he may be. He attends church. He prays. But notwithstanding this, his own Bible condemns him, as I demonstrated by the quotations I posted a couple of days ago.

I still have not argued my final point, which is, that the Conservative view is Inadequate. Artful Dodger seems to indicate, with his recent copy-&-pastes from the Cato Institute, that poor folks in America live pretty high off the hog. I will attempt to refute that claim, and if I can do so, then draw conclusions from its refutation. But for the time being, this post is already long enough. :o)

The Usurper: please can you break your post up
its very annoying when wanting to go to another board and having to scroll down half a mile to get there

The Usurper:  Draw your own conclusions on the facts I shared.  But they are facts.  I've asked this before but never got an answer so I'll try again.  There is no system with a better track record for helping bring people out of situations of poverty like the system of free enterprise.  Can you point to even one system where this is not true?  It's certainly true in America and the facts support that.  Even the poor in the USA have riches that the world's poor only dream of.  Redistributing wealth has never worked.  But apparently you know better than the experts.  So where has a system as you describe it worked to create your utopia?

Snoopy: I agree with you.....novel type posts are never read.....they become too boring....I would prefer each paragraph posted separate so each could be read. I dont read his posts....cant be bovvered

Bernice:  Read my cut and paste posts, at least they are shorter ;)

Artful Dodger: yes I would assume you are correct....

do you think the moon phases have an effect upon ones actions?

Bernice:  They do with the kids at school.  Some even grow hair and howl!

Artful Dodger: hahahaha.....I just wondered if it does have an effect on people......you see some funny turn-arounds on boards here I was wondering :)