anastasia: yes that was sarcasm , sorry

Artful Dodger: And who signed the contracts??? and the shareholders were happy, and the board members and ceo's counted their millions and look at AIG and thier bailout, while they splurge. but sure keep those workers in line , why should they have a comfortable living wage.. healthcare, ahhh don't get sick or just die,, retirement??? darn... can't they just die or live off ssi? who signed these contracts. forget making a better product.. just move the factories overseas! no wonder they aren't working

and their health care and pensions??? they are all of us

Charles Martel: $80.00 an hour to stand in one place and do a repetitive thing, sounds just comfortable to me

Artful Dodger: I got my number from fox a couple a weeks ago, according to them it cost about $1000 more in labor to produce an American made car with a union compared to an American made non-union made car, Honda I believe, and the wages were about $80 per hour for the union made as compared to about $60 for the non union, this was on t.v. so I can't produce the quote,
Even with your numbers $75,000 to sit in one place and tighten lug nuts when they come by would be a job I'd be more than happy to take

Artful Dodger: If it's not the job of the gov to not bail out failing industries.... Then why the bank rescues? Or the rescue of Fannie mae, etc?
And I would have thought that helping the jobs of millions survive while something can be sorted is a good thing... Isn't it??

And yes, some work on pay, what needs to be kept or dropped, possible mergers, maybe some more cost effective manufacturing systems, or as mentioned the production of realistic cars rather then gas eaters.

No, I don't believe the government is always right, I was told it was so by a supporter of the republicans and that we shouldn't question our leaders..

... But I know that is wrong.

And for private sectors doing better jobs... .. No, not in all cases, not even in the majority of what is effectively public sector projects. We had corporate man slaughter introduced due to a previously public sector org now gone privately owned, Surgeons over here are getting very annoyed with private run sterilisation companies mucking up kits for operations, so the operation has to be cancelled. I could go on... like how we saw a private tube maintenance team doing bodge jobs on tube tracks.

.... But the post will be two pages long.

Private are good in some instances, public in other, it's always been the way and it is a good system. The trick is knowing which and not just mucking about based on pointless policies based on ill thought ideas.

Ahh.. another, our water pipe system. The companies were told last year to fix the leaks as the leakage was so great it was diabolical.

Artful Dodger: Is this benefits due to health insurance, etc.

..... Well, If the seemingly over charging health insurance companies were kept in check.. rather if what I've seen a bit corrupt.. wouldn't that bring costs down?

In an article dated 2007 it's saying health insurance premiums rose by 6.1% the lowest increase in 10 years in America.

Yet the health care system in the USA is very inefficient and not ranked high in the world tables.

Artful Dodger: re:" If the Republicans do to Obama what the Democrats did to Bush, then the Republicans are a lower life form than slime"

He had the country in the palm of his hand after 9/11,.....he was given a blank check and proved himself untrustworthy.Obama has yet to take office,if he performs like Bush,he should recieve the same treatment.

Artful Dodger: He leveraged that blank check to accomplish his agenda,fear is a very valuable tool

as are a pair of Nike

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8GOrc0-Ygg

Jim Dandy: I'm sorry,but THAT is funny!

Jim Dandy: I agree...I think Bush should have been impeached,actually..instead he was permitted to run this country into the ground....way to go!!

anastasia: I think Democrats were very restrained,too a fault.A President should be given a degree of respect,but the rest is earned

Jim Dandy: yep...I agree yet again with ya :)

Artful Dodger: Fox ran that on Huckabee?

They must be hiring liberal writers,they're never usually that funny

I was a little scared this weekend. I heard that a reporter in Iraq threw his shoes at President Bush, and I was afraid he would use that as an excuse to start yet another war, like with Iran.... you know, since people in Iran wear shoes and such.

Jim Dandy: fear is a very valuable tool


Yeah, like when liberals scared the elderly into believing that mean republicans were going to take away their social security, or when liberals scared the poor uneducated minorities that mean republicans were going to take away their welfare, without scare tactics aimed at ignorant people, democrats wouldnt have near their support base!

coan.net: why does the thought of going to war against Iran scare you? I would be more scared of Iran with the ability to arm terrorists with nuke weapons, but that is just me.

You can click on it to make it bigger - but it says "Politics in Illinois - Where "Cell Number" on your business card has a slightly different meaning.

Artful Dodger: You think they've been easy on Blagojevich? It hasn't seemed that way,and I don't see him getting any support from either party.Craig seemed to have no problems completing his term after he had said he was resigning.

Czuch: The issues you mentioned are typical politics,both sides play that game.The "fear" I mentioned isn't in the same league

Artful Dodger: all the news I have seen on it they have been ripping him up pretty good...bullcrap on.."If Blagojevich was a Republican, the press and other liberals would be all over it."That is such crap the press in my area has covered the story quite well.....maybe your news sux?

Jim Dandy: The "fear" I mentioned isn't in the same league


I agree... the fear you mentioned is REAL(see 9/11), and the fear I mentioned is imagined, so, no, they are not in the same league at all!

Czuch: I'm not interested in either word games,or silly messege board battles where the initial post becomes twisted beyond recognition.I said my piece,carry on

anastasia: You may think they are all over it, and as far as the Governor is concerned, you may be correct.... but image this was a republican, and instead of Obama it was Bush???? Obama says he had no involvement, and thats it, God has spoken and everyone goes on their merry way.... I find it hard to believe it would be the same for Bush, the press would be crawling under every rock looking for even the most vague connection!

Jim Dandy: Its not about word games.... you implied that the fear Bush used to get us into war was a lie and cost us way more than the fear dems use on the elderly and the poor uneducated, which you imply is more accurate and less costly, so that somehow makes it less of a problem?

Jim Dandy: The "fear" I mentioned isn't in the same league


...maybe I shouldnt put words into your mouth, maybe you can tell me exactly what you mean with the above comment? Because I happen to believe that it isnt 'fear mongering' when it is backed up by evidence, and so the 'fear' you mentioned isnt really 'fear mongering' at all...

Czuch: sorry bud,not taking the bait.I've retired from these types of discussions,they go nowhere

I'f you're ever in my town we can chew the fat over a bottle of wine,I'll buy

Artful Dodger: wha...poor republicans,nobody loves the republicans,all the republicans should go out and eat worms cuz nobody loves them and always picks on them....kk,got that out of my system....I saw on the news that thye said they have had this Blagojevich under consideration for a year for considering impeachment of him.Dem OR Rep,he is an idiot

Czuch: I find it hard to believe it would be the same for Bush, the press would be crawling under every rock looking for even the most vague connection!
He's a bigger idiot

Artful Dodger: When has the news ever been unbiased?? I mean really?? The press shows what it wants to show..period.We don't know half of ANYTHING because they only report one side (most of the time)
Examples.....when the stock market dropped 777 points one day...OMG we are going into a depressio..OMG,OMG,OMG.....the VERY next day it rebounded over 500 points...and yet we still only heard about the 777 point drop the day before....Was talking to someone today who has a friend that was in Iraq for 2 tours...all the time we heard of the helicopters coming down,the guys dying...honestly,for awile the news was so bad that I thought...WTH...why do we even USE those kinds if they keep crashing so much!!?? Truth of the matter.....97% of them didn't crash,but we never heard of THOSE stories....point I am making is that the press only tells us what it wants to...is it fair,nope,but to sit there and whaa-whaa about the ONLY reason they are not reporting it well is because he is a dem is just BS

anastasia: I just love the verb "whaa-whaa". Too funny. :)))

Artful Dodger: I am creative that way,hehehe

Artful Dodger: What press are you speaking of? or media in general.The press is played by both parties much like a coach works the refs.Historically both parties have had the press in their pockets at one time or another,even GW had his moments in the sun.When I read "Obama's relationship to Blagojevich is important to know' it reminds me of all the others who's name was placed at the top of that quote in relation to Obama this past election.Rezco,Wright,Ayers,it never ends.The investigation into Blagojevich is underway,if Obama has done anything wrong we'll find out.I suppose if a politician went to a concert not knowing that a former axe murderer was also at the show we'd be hearing "blankity blank's relationship to Dave the axe murderer is important to know" Can you imagine how this "guilt by being in the same time zone" mentality is effecting any politician who aspires for office these days?

they probably won't enter a burger king without doing background checks on everyone in line

Artful Dodger:

"Apparently because the government feels the economy will suffer if they don't. I don't know about that one either."

.... It's like blowing up a building... uncontrolled bad news... debris everywhere.

"n fact, it was the government that caused the loss of thousands of jobs. They will claim that after deregulation other companies were created, and thereby the creation of new jobs."

Nope, not governments fault, it's called competition, free market and all. Not the governments fault that things didn't go exactly as they hoped. That was private sector decisions.

"Whoever told you that is a nut. We should ALWAYS question our leaders. But we should also support them in their difficult job."

Yes it is a nutty idea. As to support... that's a matter upto the individual, I'd say maybe a better line would be not to interfere.

"The government sucks at running a hospital. They can't rebuild New Orleans because they've created a huge process for building."

New Orleans is a big city is it not, and why not at the same time make a better city and lessen the probability of a similar event.
... And hundreds of houses compared to how many hundreds of thousands of buildings isn't exactly much.

"An excellent point which illustrates why the government often fails when it runs things: pointless policies based on ill-thought ideas. That sums it up quite nicely."

And that doesn't happen in private industry? Sinclair went under due to the C5 project, recently in the news is the trouble with hedge funds with billions been lost because (as an expert said) no-one really looked at what they were doing... and from what I hear it isn't the only case and more will apparently appear. The only thing that I see the government in the USA doing wrong in this instance is unlike the UK regulation is not mandatory in the hedge fund business.

... Oversea call centres... bad lines, badly trained staff (as I've found out) and most companies are now reversing the idea and setting things up so all call centres are based in the UK... I imagine the USA has the same problem.

All sectors private and public can make bad decisions. that is the truth of the matter.

coan.net: Throwing shoes is an insult over there.

Artful Dodger: You watch Fox and say the press is supposed to be unbiased!! They all have slants, some deliberate to attract a certain class of viewer based on what they want to attract.

... It makes for a better payroll as advertisers can be charged more based on the idea of a more specific audience.

(V): wish someone would throw a nice pair a heeled oxfords MY way...been wanting those shoes for a while now :)

anastasia: You'll have to change country and annoy someone rich

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Iraq_(December_1998)
I  know.... off topic!  But read Madeline Albright's quote

Artful Dodger: I quote.....

Jonah Goldberg
"Look, I think liberals have reasonable gripes with Fox News. It does lean to the right, primarily in its opinion programming but also in its story selection (which is fine by me) and elsewhere. But it's worth remembering that Fox is less a bastion of ideological conservatism and more a populist, tabloidy network."

And ....

"According to the results of a 2006 study by the Project for Excellence in Journalism a survey of 547 journalists, found that FOX was most frequently cited by surveyed journalists as an outlet taking an ideological stance in its coverage, and most identified as advocating conservative political positions,[33] with 56% of national journalists citing Fox News as being especially conservative in its coverage of news. Additionally FOX was viewed as having the highest profile as a conservative news organization; it was cited unprompted by 69% of national journalists"

"The "signature political news show" of the Fox News Channel, Special Report with Brit Hume, was alleged to have a strong bias in their choice of guests, overwhelmingly choosing "conservatives" over "non-conservatives" for interviews. The progressive media watchdog group Fairness and Accuracy in Reporting (FAIR) claimed that in a study of a 19 week period from January 2001 to May 2001 the ratio of conservative guests to liberals was 50:6."

Then there is your old friend Bill O'Reilly ..... It may not be a 'news' show the political bias of the program is aimed at conservative people and is not always truth full.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=sCQ4gAAVW2k


Altering photo's

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=3RhuGVGF21g


Editing interviews.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=8HmHmZ7SM8E
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=eUxQadgSkoA

Fox news lying.

Artful Dodger: why do people put such faith in google?

Artful Dodger: In all seriousness, who other than Fox employees and likeminded viewers aren't aware of the bias? I mean come on.I don't care about their bias,what I find silly is their constant denials while keeping a straight face
MSNBC is much the same,but I doubt their viewers would try and state otherwise,they just sit back and enjoy

Artful Dodger: can you, or anybody please tell me.....now that USA has cut interest rates to 1/4%?, if this doesnt work where are they going to go next to save the country?

if there is zero interest what happens next?

Artful Dodger: I did give examples... the youtube stuff.

Bernice: Google is just one... it leads to info that years ago was unavailable, unless your country uses heavy censorship that is.

It also leads to several online encyclopedias.... articles.. medical sites.. .. youtube... hints on DIY, gardening, and one of my favs... cheap pc parts sites..

And has saved me through some knowledge I gained at least £50 in the last month from getting to understand a shop's system, and helped me get the phone number of a certain dept of a certain company that I was unhappy with.

..... Customer care didn't know it.

Jim Dandy: Ol' Rupert Murdoch even admitted (him being a known conservative over here in the UK, owning several papers with a right wing stance thanks to his policies) that his company have attempted to sway opinion on certain matters.

Most if not all news channels, etc have a stance, some minor, some large.

Artful Dodger: As we say over here... Ohhhhhhhh no I didn't.

Explain the policy of this lady from Fox in this report...

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=EalIHHYisY0

Artful Dodger: Facts? how do you prove a comic is funny, statistically?
I'm pretty comfortable sticking my neck out on this one