(V): If you had the track record of the Palestinians, I would hold back on granting you sainthood, unlike most of the world press so gleefully have.Both sides have much to do before real peace can ever be achieved.Maybe tossing bombs in school buses and night clubs is a noble deed to some, but I'm not quite ready to grant them the martyrdom so many do.

The Col: I agree.. the Palestinians have not done much to give them the chance of a Noble peace prize.. but neither have the Israeli's in this matter. one of the big stumbling blocks is building on the West Bank... which by international law is illegal.

The Fox banter at the bottom says it's because the Palestinians do not recognise Israel.. yet they have since 1993.

... Maybe those on the Israeli side should just admit many right wingers on their side do not want to stop the building... why does it seem right wingers get in the way of progress everywhere!!!

(V): Can you provide me the actual statement?

At least Fox News doesn't provide a free propoganda pulpit for the terrorist wing of the Palestinians, as CNN and MSNBC seem very happy to do.........Israel has handled the situation badly in many respects, no argument on that count, but they also have enough past history that warrents very careful movement on the issues before them.

The Col: From what I've found....

"The Palestinians formally recognised Israel on the eve of the 1993 Oslo Accords, but have rejected demands to recognise its Jewish character because it would effectively renounce the right of return for refugees from the 1948 Arab-Israeli war."
http://www.citizen.co.za/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=132515&catid=29:world-news&Itemid=53

"A day earlier, Netanyahu set out recognition of Israel as a Jewish state as his price for a renewal of a ban on construction in the occupied West Bank, seen as key to rescuing direct talks relaunched last month.

That demand was rejected out of hand by the Palestinians, who said it had "nothing to do with the peace process," and was also widely criticised by Israeli politicians and commentators as a political ploy to sabotage the talks."

(V): It's political posturing, but recognising Israel without its Jewish identity, is like recognising The Holy See without acknowledging its Catholic culture.Israel was created to be a Jewish state,(rightly or wrongly) to delete that from the recognition, is to not fully recoginise.The Palestinians have done their share of walking away, or sabotaging agreements, it's a shame former Egyptian President Anwar El Sadat and Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin are not still around to lend their wisdom to the process.

The Col: The original formation of 'Palestine' was supposed to have given both Jewish and Arab people an equal right to live in what we call Israel today. While I can accept the Israelis saying "we live here" and the right to live there being 'written in stone', I cannot accept the declaration of Israel being purely a Jewish state. It's not the same as The Holy See, that is a place in Rome which is in Italy.

From my reading of history and from recent progs.. Israel is still a place of where those of many religions live. Especially in Jerusalem, where people of non Jewish persuasion have had their rights to live in their homes abused to the extent where a person of Jewish faith can just walk all over them and take the families home from them with nobody stopping it from happening.

Perspectively wise... we have seen before what happens when a country declares that only certain people can live within it's boundaries many a time. The results ain't good.

(V): The Holy See is considered an independant state by some,wiki it

The Col: It's interesting to read your views on Israel and Palestine. I attend a Reconstructionist synagogue that is generally on the side of the Palestinians. I have very mixed feelings about the whole thing because there are so many layers to everything.

lizrising: It is very complicated,and the emotion on both sides makes it even more so.Strategically speaking though, if peace ever does come between both sides it will really mess with the haters in the middle east, as I heard a Jordanian diplomat explain a few weeks ago.

The Col: The Holy See my have it's own laws and is recognised as a 'state'.. but it (as I said) only occupies a place that is a part of Rome... making it in my eyes just a big glorified church with very large church grounds.