he can be put on hide....that will allow him to remove them,but wont allow him to post.

Ahh yes, you are right. I forgot that this is a public board and the moderator can do that. I was thinking of fellowships, where we still can't do that anymore.

Just a little notice. I think it has no sense to suggest some workarounds here. Remember Fencer doesnt need to use BrainKing interface to delete some posts. I believe they are all in database table so he can write one simple delete loop and execute it, all within one minute. Something like delete post where user_id=3629 (E.T.) and board_id=179 (this board).
In my opinion perhaps editing and deleting posts should be done in a way allowing to track the real contents (may be it is even done that way I dont see into Fencers code :P). I mean the history of changes should be stored and instead of real deletion only some flag should be set. If such text messages history would consume after some period of time more disk space than necessary, it could be deleted after doing backups and left only in those backup databases to save space. May be the history of changes could be accessible for everyone or moderators to view by clicking at some little link near to the post to prevent situations where someone writes something rude and later edits it letting the reactions look unappropriate.

BTW I thought when a user is on ban list and wishes his posts to disappear, he could be put on hide list also and his posts will not be shown.
Or did he explicitly say he wants to remove all traces from brainking databases?

IMO as ET has posted the posts on a public board, they are now public domain and not owned by him and therefore he doesnt have the right to demand their deletion.

I think this is all queered up all right. So you're sayin this bloke is such a pain in the arse he can't bloody post no more, but his old posts are so bloody top notch you can't bear to take a butchers in here and not seem them? Seems to me LJ is a right plonker!

LOL
I wonder who's multi nick you are Little Tom

Ed, perhaps?
lol

I'm up the apples from the vicar's brother at St. Mary-le-Bow. Not quite the bobby are ya now?

I just love that accent.. ;)

Thanks for taking the time to explain your "philosophy of moderation", Walter. I do admit to having the opinion that "3) All posts must be approved" meand "moderated" and that "1) Everyone can post" means "unmoderated". In my experience, "moderated" newsgroups do indeed have a smaller number of posts; however, the posts are all "on topic" and flame wars are (of course) nonexistent. On the other hand, you volunteered for the job of moderator and no one else has any business telling you how to do it (and I hope that my post did not sound like someone trying to tell you how to do it). Interestingly enough, I think if Ed had simply instituted "3) All posts must be approved" and not allowed any posts not directly related to Gothic Chess, he would still be moderator. Of course, that's just my opinion...

Thanks luv, and lovely lass you are!

Dear BrainKing enthusiasts,

As media coverage of Gothic Chess in the United States has increased, some interesting offers have come our way. Deals are being made with companies like Hasbro and the House of Staunton to produce attractive wooden and plastic sets. There are now 8 different programs that have paid for Gothic Chess licenses, and more are on the way.

Live news crews will be covering the Computer Championship event this coming November. We are still looking for an online host to provide web coverage so that you can observe the games live with your browser as they occur.

Some offers have come in regarding online playing sites, which I am a little reluctant to discuss right now.

But I would like to "get a sense" of how everyone on here feels about playing Gothic Chess on BrainKing.

Do you enjoy it? Would you mind if it was no longer offered?

As I look at the rating lists, I see Gothic Chess is only the 19th in terms of the player id count. Having only 300+ players, some of these even duplicates, is not really where I thought Gothic Chess would be after nearly 2 years on this site.

Instead of spawning a debate, I would like to propose a vote.

Simply answer "Keep Gothic Chess on BrainKing" if you want it on hear.

No need to vote if you are disinterested.

I will only tally votes that read "Keep Gothic Chess on BrainKing".

Thanks for your time.

Robert Colanzi
National Tournament Director
Gothic Chess Federation

Yes.. I vote to keep it!

I am still trying to figure it out.. hehe

by all means

It's a great game!

I'm confused about this vote. Isn't it up to Fencer if the game stays or not? People play it, that attracts people to the site. 19th place. That's not bad for a Chess variant. Just Chess and Atomic Chess have more in the Chess category on this site. The more games offered, the more choices for someone to think about joining the site and playing. Has any game ever been taken off this site? Seems like more are added as time goes on. I do remember Pente and Keryo Pente being deleted at the behest of some, but they were brought back and renamed when others clammored for the old versions to be an option. Now there's six versions of Pente games.
Does Ed Trice know that you used the word "our" when talking about his game? He'll be mighty upset.
What media are you talking about? I read the paper a few times a week, did miss an article? Will the Computer Championships be on television, or's that internet news coverage?

Though I vote to keep the game, I don't understand why you wouldn't want to hear from people that will vote no. Not that you'll find too many in the Gothic Chess discussion board. Kind of preaching to the choir here, aren't you Robert? Perhaps you should pose the question in a different place and see what kind of response you'll get. I would expect over 90% of the people here to vote yes even if they were offered the no vote as an option.

Yes Fencer (and Ed) should keep it here!

My humble opinion is that Gothic Chess is the best Chess variant i have seen until now. It may be even better** from Chess due to the unexplored territories* and to the 4 major pieces that create attacking nightmares to everyone, as brilliant sacrifices are a common theme at Gothic Chess.

--------------------------------------------------
** We should define of course the "better".

* This unfortunatelly means that if we explore(meaning to analyse and play) Gothic Chess, then it would lose something from it's today's magic, but this is a common thing. It happened to Chess. More than 60% of the Chess games today (between GM's) are draws. Chess OF COURSE is not reaching it's end, but because the openings that the GM's are prefering have been analysed with the help of computers so extensively and also the fear of GM's to take a risk of a "dangerous"*** opening has lead to this situation.

***"Dangerous" = A little risky and unbalanced.

of course we should keep Goth on the site, the more games the merrier. However, if you are suggesting that sites become involved in a bidding war for Gothic Chess, I suggest to Fencer NOT to get involved. CM1000 is right about chess suffering from its own popularity, and that we haven't scratched the surface of Gothic Chess ( i know bc I can still beat the computer!), but to provide it exclusively on one site is a horrible idea for those wishing to popularize it. I can't even count the number of sites that offer chess on the net. Perhaps that's why it's so popular. The brains behind Gothic should be trying to SIMULTANEOUSLY offer Goth on as many sites as possible.

Walter, this is the way that I thought would be best to present this question to the people that play Gothic. I'm only interested in "YES" votes because anyone else would be a "NO". Am I preaching to the choir...YES!!!! Who should I be preaching to. I have a vested interest in this game and it's very important to me. Anyone on this site can who knows me can say that I never post negatively about anything!! I'm here to play Gothic!!

"Isn't it up to Fencer if the game stays or not?" The answer to this is yes and no! Obviously, if Filip does not care to renew the license then there will be no Gothic Chess on this site, but he has to be offered it first!

Also, if I keep getting messages sent to me that are NEGATIVE...to put it nicely...I will post them on this board for everyone to see and then maybe everyone can comment on them. I don't post alot because of the negativity on this DB, thats why in the Gothic Fellowship's DB's I post there!

Just for the record I vote "YES" to keep Gothic Chess on this Site!!

Long live Gothic Chess.

Of course.

What do you mean by a vested interest, ChessCarpenter?

I am for a renew of the license for Gothic chess by Edtrice for Brainking.It is only his matter to extend the license.But if he don't want this I am for a replace of GC by a good Capablancavariation , for instance the "Abergvariation".

How's that one played Caissus?

As for this licensing business, I'd just keep the game here and blow them off. If they have a problem with it, rename the game. Kind of like Othello is called Reversi here, right? I still don't get how a patent can be granted for something that's a hundred years old. Suppose I took Bird's chess and said a Pawn could not be captured if the move threw a check and the King or Pawn had not been moved in the game as yet. Making a rule change to try and prevent the quick mate that comes about from the Pawn being unguarded at the start of the game. We'd have a new game, but would it be something that could be patented? In Gothic Chess, there are no new pieces or rules. Just a rearrangement of the pieces that existed a hundred years ago. How can this be a new game and a furthering of the art? I could just take Gothic Chess and require the first piece moved be a Pawn. Would this be a new game? In fact, they purposely made all the rules of regular Chess apply in Gothic Chess. The pieces aren't even named differently from Capablanca Chess! I read Ed Trice's article and he shows that the piece placement in Gothic Chess makes for a better game, but I still don't see how that makes it an invention. There's hundreds of Chess variations. I doubt if many have ever been patented. And even if a few are, what good did it do the patent holder? Perhaps it's my lack of understanding of the patent process and the rights and obligations that come with being a patent holder that is causing my confusion. All the same, to me an invention has to be new and novel in some way. I just don't see that in Gothic Chess. And why Gothic Chess? I didn't ask anyone's permission to play it, nor have I bought a license. I wouldn't even know how to go about getting one, come to think of it. Do I have to pay royalties to play this game? Is the license free, or did Fencer pay them for it? What kind of cost would that be? Seems like Fencer is doing Ed a favor just having the game on his site, spreading it out to the public, and letting Ed advertise Gothic Chess sets and links to his website.
Perhaps I'll write the Patent Office and ask about patents and games and see what the answers are. Or a patent attorney. I have a few things I need to have patented too. Maybe an attorney would answer my questions as he's helping me with my patent application. What does it cost to get a patent? Why bother getting a patent? To protect your idea so that one has exclusive right to it, right? I'd say Gothic Chess is Bird's idea and it's part of the public domain now. Was this patent acquired in the hopes of making it rich? Sounds like someone is out a couple dollars.
I think I will make an 8 X 10 chessboard and play a game on it. I might even market them. Flip it over for an 8 X 8 board. Add some extra pieces for Chess variations. Market it as a Bird's Chess chess set. Wouldn't be much of a problem for someone that wanted to play Gothic Chess to rearrange my Bird's chess set pieces to play that game instead. Would I need a license from anyone to do these things? I really doubt it, plus what can they do if I refuse to buy one? Take my set away and tell me to go home? How's someone like Ed going to enforce his patent? That's assuming it is a patent that can't be contested and overturned, at that. I'm really confused about the whole thing.

Anyways, tell me about the Abergvariation.

Walter, I don't what your problem is? If you don't like that we have a patent to the game and have a license with Filip thats just too bad!
To openly suggest that Filip just keep the game here and not pay a fee just shows what kind of person you really are.

1. If you want the rest of your questions asked just UN-BAN Ed and I'm sure he'll answer your questions. That is if you are really Moderator here?

2. These questions your asking have a sarcastic tone and not an inquistive one! Why is the Moderator of this board being a Basher!

3. Do you still want to be Moderator of this board? Do you care about Gothic Chess or do care just to be a Moderator...this is what your actions suggest!!

I don't what argue about this until Doomsday...what are your intentions?

the same patenting argument has occurred with Othello/Reversi and Renju/Pente. In both cases, it was deemed legal to offer the games in their new forms by two courts, one in America, the other in Holland. As music piracy has shown, patents can be very tricky to deal with on the internet, which is bound by no particular country's laws.

I have noticed that very often some people like to keep an eye out and identify someone who might be in disfavor and then start piling on thinking that such action will somehow increase their own popularity. As there are a fair number of fellow vultures out there it sometimes looks like it is working but in the long run water seeks its own level. :)

I have similar questions Walter. But i have accepted and understand the fact that Gothic Chess game, it is patented so we should follow all the things the following page refers: http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/pac/doc/general/index.html#patent


But it is still very annoying the fact that i can't create a Gothic Chess engine or that i can't offer from a web-page a game with Gothic's Chess rules even if it is with a different name. And if i understand the following text from the above page correctly, i'm not even allowed without the permission of Ed, to play the game(actually i am allowed, until the patent owner forbids me)!
-------------------
"The right conferred by the patent grant is, in the language of the statute and of the grant itself, the right to exclude others from making, USING, offering for sale, or selling the invention in the United States or importing the invention into the United States. (U.S. patent grants are effective only within the United States, U.S. territories, and U.S. possessions. Under certain circumstances, patent term extensions or adjustments may be available.)"
--------------------


But let's suppose that Ed doesn't give the permission to Fencer (the examples are not choosen to bring any upset, but for easier understanding of what i'm saying) to play the game of Gothic Chess at Brainking.
According with the U.S patent rights, Fencer doesn't have any right to continue playing the game of Gothic Chess (since Ed doesn't want this), AND ALSO he doesn't have any right to continue playing a game that would have the same rules with Gothic Chess EVEN with a changed name.

BUT what about a game with all rules to be the same as Gothic Chess and with one more, that will say for example that the game is draw after 1200 moves. This game is obviously NOT Gothic Chess, since Gothic Chess doesn't have this rule. And the game will be called GZK. I don't see any violate of patent rights.

With the same logic, why i can't create a computer engine that will play a game of JCN? JCN will have all the rules of Gothic Chess with the following 700 rules more:
Rule 1: At move(ply) 800 white player can move one more time.
Rule 2: At move(ply) 801 black player can move one more time.
...................................
...................................
Rule 700: At move(ply) 1499 black player can move one more time.
I could easily say that someone is crazy, if he would say that my game of JCN violates Gothic's Chess patent. JCN has 700 rules more than Gothic Chess.


Anyway, although this post seems a kind of attacking on Gothic Chess (Ed Trice), my intention is absolutely not this! It just getting on my nerves the whole patent thing (not patent and Gothic Chess, but the word patent). Along with Chess and Backgammon, Gothic Chess is my favourite board game and i think it deserves to have great success, and why not to have even bigger than Chess (although it's difficult)!

I wish Fencer renew the licence with Ed for as more years as possible, and i wish also to Ed to find many other sites for playing Gothic Chess. I wish also in the future, to be available many Gothic Chess engines like GC-Junior 8 or GC-Shredder 8.0 and the market of Gothic Chess will become large and i hope hundreds of web-pages to start showing Gothic Chess things. I think that this would happen. Not very fast but it will.....

Fencer must weigh up the 2 sides.
How many people would leave this site if GC is not offered vs the cost of licensing GC for the site. I would think it is most likely that almost everybody will stay here anyway so why pay money for something with no return? Also, I would be curious how much it costs Fencer to use GC on BK

LongJohn...The cost is very very low! It's not for me to disclose.
Would people leave Brainking if Gothic was longer here I don't think so...this is a great site!
But I know for a fact that many people bought BrainRook and BrainKnight memberships because of Gothic Chess so that is Filip's return!

I doubt they bought memberships just for GC.
If the cost is very low, then I would suggest renewing.
Anything more than $56 EUR per year though, something equivalent to 2 rook memberships would simply be a waste of money from a business perspective I would say.

If I did understand
this correctly the patent of GC works only in the United States!?
But the server has his place in Czechia...
A question to the lawyers?

As i have mentioned at this site: http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/pac/doc/general/index.html#patent
which is the "United states Patent and Tredemark office" says the following:

"U.S. patent grants are effective only within the United States, U.S. territories, and U.S. possessions. Under certain circumstances, patent term extensions or adjustments may be available."

So perhaps the Gothic Chess patent is only available to US but perhaps not. It depends to the patent term extensions and adjustments Ed Trice did......

I don't think that an American patent is valid anywhere in Europe...Nobody there with legal knowledge?
Btw : Greetings to all my Gothic-,Janus- and other chessopponents from my vacationplace in Italy.
I have internetaccess from time to time in the hotel, but no board and pieces to analyze my games :(

You did it again. You said "We". In the whole time that I've been at this board (Since July 9th), not once did GothicInventor/ Quequesno/ EdTrice mention a partner in the ownership or patenting of Gothic Chess. He always said "Mine" and "I", never "we" or "ours". Not only that, you haven't posted to this board since April. Suddenly you're here saying how optimistic you are. Perhaps you're reading pessimism into my posts? I'm skeptical by nature. Don't mistake skepticism for pessimism. The way you've gone about your post of late is definitely sending warning flags up for me. I don't want to get caught off guard like I just did a couple of weeks ago, and it appears is still ongoing. You haven't answered one of those questions I posed, well one you did. But now you're here telling me how to moderate this board and who to ban. You're right, I don't like the fact that you, er excuse me, Ed Trice has patented this game. But that's just tough for me. It's still a good game. I truly believe that it can't be owned as I understand these things, the actual game itself, and its history. You can start by filling in the details and answering my concerns about ownership of this particular game and how you're going to protect your, er Ed's patent. Who are you? Why didn't Ed give you any credit? Let me start with my first questions.
1) What is your vested interest? Are you partners with Ed Trice? How come he never mentioned you?

You detect sarcasm in my tone? You very first post is ridiculous. You don't see it? The first line of the post dated 20. August 2004, 20:36:40
Media Coverage? I asked you about it, but no reply. Why would Hasbro need your permission, er Ed Trice's permission, to make Gothic Chess sets? The pieces predate his patent.

Next paragraph-Live news crews! I asked you about that too. No reply. Saying it like this makes one think of Eyewitness News, camera crews, and lots of microphones. What do you mean?

Then this sentence- Some offers have come in regarding online playing sites, which I am a little reluctant to discuss right now.--<
Why'd you put that there? Is it supposed to wow us? You're just talking about a game here, and you have all these conspiratorial tones about you.

The rest of the post is one of the least subtle piles of propaganda I've come across. A VOTE! What kind of election doesn't allow more than one choice? ->Instead of spawning a debate, I would like to propose a vote.--< Stifling dissenting voices, sure that'll win you lots of votes and keep debate to a minimum. It worked in the Soviet Union for years.
The whole thing reads like a fluffed up reminder that you're going to take your ball and go home. I tried to give you the benefit of the doubt as I wasn't used to your writing style and might have been interpretting it incorrectly, but as has been shown by your subsequent posts you sound quite a bit like a mouthpiece for someone that was banned from this discussion board more than one time. I'd be carefull if you want to continue using BrainKing if I were you. That's a big time violation of the user agreement.

In your next post dated 21. August 2004, 05:57:52, you reply to my questioning of your "vote". You again say how non-negative you are and your posts. Quoting-
->Also, if I keep getting messages sent to me that are NEGATIVE...to put it nicely...I will post them on this board for everyone to see and then maybe everyone can comment on them. I don't post alot because of the negativity on this DB, thats why in the Gothic Fellowship's DB's I post there--<
Just what are you insinuating here, Mr. Positive? I've never even heard of you, nor have I read any posts mentioning you in a bad way on this board. I looked through a lot of posts trying to find mention of you. The only person that did, was EdTrice. He talks about your skills at Gothic Chess and about making a playing card with you on it. That's it. I didn't find any disparaging remarks directed towards you. Especially during the flame war that went on just before your re-emergence to posting on this board. Oh, what's this? I missed it the first go around. It doesn't sound too positive to me.
>-ChessCarpenter (2210) Rename this DB 15. August 2004, 12:59:33
How about renaming this board to "The VENTING Board"! Come here and vent on anything!--
How nice and helpful you are.
You got me now, what're you up to?

Your post where you ask about my problem is. My problem is I think the patent is invalid and you guys are trying to profit from other people's work and ideas. It might be true that you put a lot of time and energy into your cause, but that doesn't mean you own the game and are trying to make it rich with some legal shenanigans that fool all of us lay people into going along with it. Take a game like Dark Chess and the playing of it on a computer between two people. Now that's a real innovation, but it's still a game that's over a hundred years old with a couple of rule changes. I don't see anyone trying to cash in on it like you guys are. Be happy your game is getting played. Sell books on how to play it, or software, but the game itself is way older than you and your patent. After visiting the link with the patent, I came across ways to have patents re-examined. Unfortunately the fee for an "ex parte" re-examination is $2520.00. So I won't be contesting the patent any time soon. They also mention that the commisioner of the patent office can just open up a patent query on his own, but then he'd have to have a reason to do so. I imagine a game would be pretty low on his to do list. So it would appear your patent will stand unchallenged until you guys try to enforce it against someone playing "your" game without your permission. Then you'll be the ones on the spot and will have to prove it's a good patent. Obviously it must've worked once, since you got the patent in the first place. Or's it easy to get a patent and hard to lose it?

In response to Caissus who said that American patents are not valid in Europe, they are. The European Union is a member of the World Trade Organization. All members of the WTO have agreed to respect each other's patent rights. If Ed Trice really wants to protect his patent, he can register it as a WTO patent, which gives it much broader protection outside the USA.

Ah this is interesting,until registering as WTO patent it is unprotected in the Europeen states?

Caissus: "Ah this is interesting,until registering as WTO patent it is unprotected in the Europeen states?"

LongJohn: "correct, unprotected"
-----------------------------------

Perhaps he has registered already to this WTO, so it may be protected.

Ok, Walter...I'm sorry I took your skepticism for pessimism!

1. I asked Ed not to mention that I was an investor! I just wanted to play Gothic Chess on this site which is why I came in the 1st place! I really don't like to post because everyone twists things around whether they mean to or not.
Ed posted an inquiry on this board on April 1st 2003 on page 45 and that is how I became an investor.
2. Media coverage....of the Gothic Computer Challenge in November which is stated in my orginal post. This includes live coverage of this event. What else can I say?
3. The Gothic piece setup on the 8x10 board is patented and so, if Hasbro and House of Staunton want to make the pieces and say that this is Gothic Chess they need permission from the Gothic Chess Federation.
4.Some offers have come regarding online playing sites...."Is this supposed to WOW us? You're just talking about a game here, and you have all these conspiratorial tones about you." How about many people have asked about a live site that they can play like USCFLive, FICS, ICC, The WorldChessNetwork. If there is something wrong with this, please let me know?
5.Subtle piles of Propaganda...A VOTE!
I just wanted to know how many people were intested in still having Gothic Chess on this site! I just wanted to make it easier just "YES" votes all others would be considered "NO" votes! I didn't want a debate because everything on this board comes to "Venting". That was the reason for my post. Everything is shouted out unlike the fellowship boards like Nasmichael and myself have. I don't think there ever was a post that was Negative to the point that Nasmichael or myself had to tell people to "tone it down"! Thats the kind of boards where I post and still not everyday because I just don't have the time!
6. User Agreement....The last time I looked in the mirror I was Robert Colanzi...other people know me on this site even if you don't!
7."Just what are you insinuating here, Mr. Positive?" After I posted "How about a Vote" I received messages from people that were RUDE to put it nicely. You would not have seen them because they were in "MY" message box.
8.Everyone can have any opinion they want about the patent..thats fine!

Walter I hope I have answered all your questions, if I haven't let me know!

By the way Walter, in my posts, I have always called you by your name..."Walter". Maybe we don't see eye to eye on everything, but lets at least not resort to name calling!

I hope this makes people see things more clear.
I just want people to enjoy this game and have fun Playing it & Discussing it....not fighting over it in any way shape or form.


Thanks,

Robert Colanzi

all this talk about protection!!

Whew.. making my head spin.. OUCH!!

First - I believe it is in the best interest of the game itself to leave it on this site. The more ways to get people interested in the game is give them more places to play the game. You think 300 or so players who have a rating in Gothic Chess is low, I think that is pretty good for a chess variant - 3rd highest (Chess of course highest, then Atomic with Gothic close 3rd)

Second - To answer some other players comments - Ed Trice threaten before to take Gothic Chess off this site and Fencers answer was if Ed did not want the game here, Fencer would take it off. (or something like that.) So the decicion is Ed's (and his "investors" if the game stays here. Hopefully Ed won't play his games with all the users again and just make the decision yes or no.

So my vote is Yes, keep it here. I've never been a fan of Ed since he started to mess with all the users on this site, but my opinion is that the game is good for this site, and this site is good for the game. It's a win/win situation for the game.

Your absolutely right BBW! It's a win/win situation for both parties! I personally, would like to see that continue.

For Gothic to stay on this site it depends on Filip and Ed! BOTH have to AGREE on it...not just one of them...just so everyone knows!

I went to the link BuilderQ. The game is almost exactly the same as Gothic Chess. The castling rule sounds cool too. But it could be changed to regular Chess rules and you'd have the same game with a slightly different initial set up, just like Capablanca's and Bird's versions. While at the Chess Variants site I checked out a couple of other games. Grand Chess seems pretty cool though it has some major differences to Gothic Chess. Especially how the Pawns can promote and when. Grand Chess had a link for a chess set. I like how they made the Cardinal and Marshall look. Same pieces as the Archbishop and Chancellor. The board is 10 X 10. I'd like to try both games and see how they play. Has anybody played them? How do they compare to Gothic Chess?

<>How do they compare to Gothic Chess?
Simple. Bigger board => More tactics. (I'm refering to Grand Chess.)

It's a very fun game to play, but the 10x10 board isn't the most appropriate board size for a human to play it in a good level. If you don't care about your level of play though, and you don't care if you make many mistakes and blunders it's very entertaining.

So many games to play but so little time:-(

Please forgive me for the OT and let me show you the interesting game of NIM at a Gothic Chess board.

Suppose the following position at a Gothic Chess board with the Gothic Chess pieces indicated as * and with the empty squares as +, without caring for what every piece is.

+ + + + + + + + + +
+ + + + + + + + + +
+ + * + + + + * + +
+ + * + + + + * + +
+ * * * + + * * * +
* * * * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * * * *
a b c d e f g h i j

The rules for the game moves are easy:
A player can remove a piece from any file and at the same time all the pieces above that piece, are removed from the board too. (For example if he remove the c1 piece, all the pieces from the c file will disappear, if he remove the c2 piece, all the pieces above c2 inluding c2 piece, will disappear).

White plays first.

The goal is to remove a piece last, in order to win.
-------------------------------------------------------------

The question is what game is this? A white-wins game or a black-wins game?
If white takes c3 piece(so only 2 pieces will remain at the c file),
then what black has to play in order to win?

The above board configuration can be named as 3464334643.
What about the configuration 4444444444. What game is this? A white-wins game or a black-wins game?

And what about the configuration 8888800000. Is it a white-wins game or a black-wins game? And if white plays a8?? then what black has to play to win?


These are rather easy questions to answer and if you are wonder why i'm asking them, it is because i want to see if anyone here has any mathematical interest......... In my country, well actually in my town (my country should follow this too) i see only a super-tiny number of people that having interest at mathematics. Also at the non-mathematical forums i read, people don't care about mathematics and even feel scared about them. This is strange as mathematics are everywhere and is one of the most amazing discoveries of mankind.

I'm saying all these, since this game can easily be played perfectly with some beginner's mathematics. I had thousants of wins and i was invincible with my friends that wondered how i do it. And it wasn't a solution that i saw and played it so it was unfair for them, but i had solved this game before seeing the solution.
So i invite all people and especially the younger, to come and explore the amazing world of mathematics!

*Sigh*.. walks over to empty table.. moves chancellor over to C7.. goes over to coffee table.. pours cup.. Takes out lip gloss and smears over lips..

Turns around.. stares at empty room.. shrugs shoulders, Walks out*

i know what you mean...healthy dissent kept this board (bored) alive.