I like 1. d4 better than 1. f4 since the Bishop on c1 gets blocked by the f4 pawn.

Lately when logging on I am unable to play my games because all the the squares have little boxed x in them and I do not know the position. What is the matter?

I most certainly did not just copy Mr. Trice in what I consider a balanced game. I have always considered my interupitation of a balanced game to be the same thing.

OK, but the features you consider balanced resemble the features of Gothic Chess that GothicInventor listed on 16. September 2004.

Sometimes you need to clear your CACHE to get a proper display of the position. Depending on your browser, it may be in EDIT/PREFERENCES/ADVANCED SETING, CLEAR CACHE NOW or something similar.

After you do that, a refresh should work.

How many Gothic Vortex owners also have a Macintosh? I am just curious if anyone does. I started writing the Macintosh version today. This one will be the first with PGN support and the database linked to the gui.

CHECK OUT Gothic Chess on Chessville's front page! For anyone who loves tactics this is an excellent article!

Strong, strong. Worth checking out. Thanks, CC.

I read it too :)

Aloha Ed,

I do not own Gothic Vortex, but I do have two Macs. One is a Titanium Powerbook and the other is an older B&W G3. I would be happy to beta test anything for ya. I could easily set it up so you can see my screen in real-time from my website, etc. PM me for any other details, etc.

how many votes and letters of discontent have you recieved to remove Walter as moderator and replace him with yourself?

You know, bwildman, after you mentioned this stuff in a game we have going, I contacted a few of the peole and they me. Thad mentioned to me about not being moderator any more, but as far as I can tell it is you that are starting the remove Walter campaign. As you seem to have missed noticing the discussion board has been on topic and without rudeness of late regardless of the conversation. If you're right that Thad or Ed wants me removed, let them deal with it. I think I've done all right as moderator, but I'm sure others can do it too.... Just not you.

Shorty doesn't handle rejection well although he has had a ton of it. :P

Walter,

People contacted me after your "anti-patent" posts. I am not going to put words into their mouths, nor am I going to inflame the situation. But if you think it was Bwilman that started this, you are incorrect. Some of the very same people who are not "Gothic Chess DB regulars" are the ones who expressed disgust that a MODERATOR of a discussion board was so vehemently opposed to the rulings of two United States Federal Courts upholding the validity of the patent.

How can you moderate something you are so opposed to? What is the source of your anger? Why don't you just step down?

As I understand it, a private petition for your removal was circulated by several PAYING MEMBERS of brainking.

As I read bwildman's post, all he did was ask a simple question. Perhaps whoever is spearheading the removal campaign has not been responsive to bwildman, so he took the next step and posted the question on here.

It seems like a very democratic thing to do and I see nothing wrong with it.

I certainly will.
Since when was disagreeing with Ed against the law? I like this game that Ed calls "Gothic Chess". Disagreeing over the ownership of it is completely different than saying the game is a bad game and trying to stop its spread. If anything a controversy over things like this can make something newsworthy and help disseminate awareness of it.
Ed, you've had your chance at moderating this board. Twice! What happened? So you don't like me as moderator and are forced to go some other route to get me removed as I doubt a direct appeal from you to Fencer would have much effect. I've stopped posting my reservations about your patent and Bird's Chess, but I suppose you have to do what you have to do. You start a behind the scenes petition and then say it's my doing? Have it your way.

As for bwildman's question, we'll see how Thad responds, if he does. My first inclination when I saw it posted this morning was to delete it, but I figured I might as well let it stay and see what kind of responses it makes. I'll know where I and some others stand soon enough.

Walter...if Thad wants out as moderator...I dont blame him...its hard to work around your"say one thing do another" policies.
And your absolutly right...I wont moderate this board.my choice,remember?

Oh, Ed, could you direct me to these rulings? I'd certainly like to read them. If they prove that you're right about the patent and ownership of Gothic Chess, I'll be apologizing to you and anyone else that'll listen. If they're just court orders issued to subdue a person who then complied without fighting the orders that will not end my disagreement about it.
Until and if ever I decide to take more than a passing enterest in the whole affiar, I was mainly going to drop the subject except on the occasion of someone else posting to this board about the subject.

pimple.
still no rating in gothic chess? care for a game? or are you just making yet another feeble attempt at humour? ;-)

Not my game but when I see a lynch mob forming it is hard to keep silent.

bwildman, I think you misinterpreted what I wrote in my clumsy style of writing about not being moderator any more in reference to a message I received from Thad. It is I that he was talking about not being moderator any more, not him. As far as I know he wants to be a moderator and hasn't said anything to me about resigning.

I simply have a problem with Walter Montego's anti-Gothic Chess *patent* remarks. I think it's ridiculous that he is tolerated to continue doing so.. he should be removed as the moderator I feel. Isn't it double standard when a moderator nit picks to create a flame responce.. yet, is continually allowed to do so?

Especially when they end up hushing others or omitting posts..

edit remarks ~ *I put the Patent into it!* LOL

To answer your question Walter, on why Ed doesn't moderate the board could be due to peeps not really giving themselves a chance to know Ed on a more personal level.. Some are so intimidated by his posts and his level of intelligence that they simply shy away, or gang up on him.. A while back Ed Tried to help this site.. peeps took it as though he was wanting to take control of it.. He actually ended up losing quite a bit of money due to the outcome.

Peeps assumed by his posts.. that he was a real monster because at the time he was also aware of wrong doings of the KM. Which was a group formed similar to the groups now with UE and Mastermind.. most people were tagging their names with KM (and it was a large group, I included) just to do it.. not knowing what actually was going on at the top of the KM.. When Ed commented that he was going to break down the cluster of KM's then of course.. he ended up getting a lot of peeps angry at him.. Cause they new the leader of the KM to be such a kind person.. Wanting to help others.. And offering friendship and advice.. While he and a few others managed to lure passwords out of others and do some not so nice things. It finally came out around a year ago.. So I don’t care to go into much more details.. But, since that incidence.. There HAS been biased opinions from most at the site towards Ed.. Which in turn when he tried to do the moderator position he would get down right attacked..

Now Granted.. I do not mean to say Ed wasn’t tempted to come down to everyone else’s level.. Cause he is only human.. And he did at times.. That is when I started chatting more with him.. Seeing his side of the playing field.. And I learned that I was one lucky gal to have pushed the feelings aside that were openly stated throughout the site and actually get to know who is he rather than cast judgment on him for his type written words.. I am glad to call him a great friend. I have learned he has a wonderful sense of humor, is very intelligent and very real.

So please.. Don’t nit pick and try to belittle him with this.. “Why aren’t you moderating this board?” BS..

I second Walter Montego as a moderator of the Gothic board.He is a good moderator and there are no "anti-Gothic Chess" remarks,only "anti-patent" remarks.
A patent of a game,which would not be allowed here in Europe.
Edtrice:"People contacted me after your "anti-patent" posts".
How many people? Two or three?

Everyone knows I am not running for moderator. I have said before, I am not taking on new games, I am finishing what I have, then leaving. I had one person recently beg me for a game of checkers, so we played a quick one, and that was that.

Out of respect for Terry Trotter, I will participate in the Remembering Jestone event, which should go quickly at 1 day per move.

The people who contacted me I just redirected to Thad. I know at one point there were a total of 14 people who expressed opposition to the anti-patent remarks.

They are being asked to post vocally now here in this board.

As I see it now, we have "publicly" 3 votes to remove Walter.

Bwildman, ScarletRose, and myself.

I think it is safe to say that ChessCarpenter and tedbarber will add to this, as they were one of the first to call the post by Walter to my attention.

So we have a conservative 5 votes to remove Walter right there.

ScarletRose, I never made anti-Gothic Chess remarks aside from the naming of it and the ownership question. The game itself is a great game. A rose by any other name would smell as sweet, right? Why should that be grounds for removal? You can disagree with me, but that's your opinion. It surely isn't nitpicking if it elicits some of the responses I've seen from you and others. Why be so defensive about it? So now you've gotten know him on a more personal level. I haven't, and I also haven't done anything to attack him, either. Unless you consider disagreeing and debating attacking. Then yes, I've mortally wounded him. :)
Perhaps when Ed responds with the court decisions and we can read about the cases it'll calm the whole issue down. As for your defending Ed's previous moderation of this board, you've really glossed over how he ran it and treated people. Especially those he disagrees wtih or dislikes.

By the way, what are "peeps"? Sounds like quite the conspiracy to me. I must have missed some interesting times back them.

Peeps means people in chat lingo

I'll stick to using the word people when I type, but now I'll know what you mean when I see the word.

Well my opinion is simple. When a moderator of a board continuously puts firewoods to the fire with his anti-patent opinions is not suitable for a moderator. He can of course say what he think but disagreeing for a USA law about patents, is in my eyes not right. I don't want to be suspicious but his behaviour is not honest for me. Just my opinion of course........

Walter seems to think the entire U.S. Federal Court system has online links, so I will allow him to wallow in his ignorance. All court cases are a matter of public record, so he can go to his local jurisdiction and request acess to a search engine and do his own diligence. As for the upholding of the patent, it is easy enough to find at the USPTO site.

U.S. Patent 6,481,716 which showcases links to the summaries of the cases that were won if you look hard enough.

I think that's enough hand holding for now.

I had seven people contact me via PM expressing their interest in having Walter removed as moderator. Three of them have posted their opinions here too. I agree that Walter, as a moderator, was way out of line with his anti-patent posts. I suggested to him that he resign as moderator and then he wouldn't be in a position of conflict of interest. He would be free to post and say whatever he liked as the rest of you are. Seems things between him and some others have heated up again!

So I guess that's five more votes for Walter to step down, the four who contacted me privately who haven't posted here yet, plus myself. Everyone, please add your votes.

Here are some reasons, in Walter's own words, why he is a bad moderator.

1. Dissemination of false information

Post reference date: 15. October 2004, 03:01:05

The game itself is a good game, regardless of what name it or the pieces have. Since Bird invented the game, I think it should be named in honor of him. Let Ed promote it and make his money, but give credit where credit is due."

Errors: Bird did not invent the game, I did. Walter refuses to acknowledge even the most irrefutable of facts.

Do we really want this guy to be moderator?

2. Lack of true knowdlege about what he posts

Post reference date: 15. October 2004, 03:01:05

...I doubt if we'll ever really find the true answer about the patenting and rights because it doesn't seem like there's that much money in it.

Well we sold 30,000 sets since December of 2000, which we were required to furnish backup for to the International Computer Games Association
Journal (including tax returns and general ledger entries) before they would put that it print.

PDF file mentioning sale of 30,000 sets

That PDF file is from the ICJA website and we distribute it freely on ours as well.

Errors: Poor assumptions by Walter, not asking for information but instead fabricating his own version of events.


Do we really want this guy to be moderator?

3. Jumping to conclusions

Post reference date: 15. October 2004, 03:40:32

It's hard to imagine that he'd be able to get a court to pull the plug on BrainKing for that reason.

Errors: Blatant lie and willful mispresentation.

Where did I ever say I was going to do something even remotely similar to what is being suggested?

Do we really want this guy to be moderator?

4. Babbling

Post reference date: 15. October 2004, 03:35:49

What's the point of having a United Europe if each state has seperate patenting laws? That'd be like California having different patent laws than Nevada. Though in fairness, a lot of California's laws are different than Nevada's, let alone Utah's!

Errors: Straying far off topic, babbling.

The ninth and tenth admendments to the United States constitution deal with the powers of each state and how they relate to the Federal governemnt.


Errors: Straying far off topic, babbling.

I'm sure the powers that be and other interested parties are duking it out in Europe over the very thing. I suppose it's all in the details and who has the sovereignty when it all gets worked out. I'm just glad I don't have to go through customs each time I cross state lines on the way to Canada and my United States money spends in each state without having to be exchanged.

Errors: Straying far off topic, babbling (maybe just liking to "hear himself talk?")

Though California has the Agriculture stop point on the way back. It's been there since atleast the 1930's. I saw it in a movie called the "Grapes of Wrath". If Ed gets a European Patent, I'm sure you'll be the first to know.

Errors: Babbling some more, then including me into a "summation" with no supporting facts.

Do we really want this guy to be moderator?

5. Far flung speculations involving governments

Post reference date: 15. October 2004, 03:35:49

There's one thing you might be overlooking about the enforcement of foreign patents: treaties. It is possible that our governments have worked out a deal covering this situation.

Errors: Obvious over-reaching, lack of factual data.

This post says a lot. Walter wants to get governments involved in order to satisy his whim.

I will pause here, there is more I can add, but what's the point?

Do we really want this guy to be moderator?

I said I had stopped talking about the patent unless someone else comments on it. As you'll notice, all these things that Ed has chosen and picked from are dated October 15th or earlier. And how 'bout that link that Ed shows in the long post attacking me? It goes to an article written by himself!

Not one of your points Ed show why I'm a bad moderator. They just show that you dislike me being the moderator. You even quote me when the whole context of one of the quotes was in support of your patent. And so what if I make mistakes. We can't all be perfect like you. But hey, perfection ain't all it's cracked up to be, is it? Now when are you going to show us those court cases and get the matter resolved. I already said I'd apologize and get on with life after they come to light. Yet, you call me names and say other things in your posts (hand holding, wallowing, let's remove Walter campaign, obfuscate the issue with meaningless links to the patent office, and other things). IS it because they don't exist? Surely you can direct me to the court itself and I can read it myself?

I support Walter as a moderator, I think he is the best mod this board ever had :)
And I am interested in reading about those patent things, because I dont like the fact a board game (in fact a game setup because the pieces, board, combination of both except certain starting placement were invented earlier) can be protected this way, at least in U.S.
And in last Trice's post I smell something closing to personal attacks against someone who just stated another opinion.
But I think Ed Trice would be a great candidate for U.S. presidency, may be he should try next time, he certainly has a fighting spirit and can convince other people about truth of his ideas :))

...just an opinion of some non-paying member :)

Yawn. OK, OK, I'll write the patent office and find out what the deal is and why they granted you the patent. Perhaps I'll spend the $2600 or so it takes to fight the patent, but I really don't see what's in it for me, even if I was to win. I suppose I might get some satisfaction in watching you eat crow, but is it worth the time and effort for me? And what if you're right? I'll have wasted my time and money. Instead I think next year I'll finish the garage and instead of the welder and metal working equipment I was going to put in it, I'm going to get wood working equipment and start putting out chess boards and sets. After I start to market them (Interchangable 8 X 8, 8 X 10, and 10 X 10 boards, with lots of extra pieces to play lots of games like Bird's Chess and Ultima), I'll post to this board where they might be purchased at, then you can get your court order delivered to me Ed and I'll read it at my leisure as I profit from my craft and see that my lawyers have the ability to get a cease and desist order on you.

Sounds like a implied threat to me. Actually it sounds quite blatant. Supposing you had my address, just what are you planning on doing with it?

Ho Hum.. You just still don't get it do you Walter..

I am not arguing with you that you wouldn't make a good moderator.. perhaps maybe on another board.. but, you blatantly get upset and start showing jealousy towards Ed due to his ability to patent a chess variant.. of course.. let's not forget all the time he studied each individuals values and strong points of each little square.. So.. due to his time and effort.. is he really at fault??.. It is not to say that someone can't just make a chess board and the pieces.. themselves.. but, to print the rules and use the positioning strictly on that board.. and then sell it as That particular game.. YOu will be challenged.. especially if you try to profit from it..

Similar to writting up a story or producing a movie.. that has already been written or thought of.. and then trying to earn the rewards for someone else's hard work..

And this bird dude.. whoa.. he had every right to patent his positions as well.. Just as I have a right to patent the one position I do.. that many men find they enjoy.. ;) *thinks to self ~ Am I allowed to say that?*

Perhaps I will after I do some indepth research! LOL

Because of being sued, I'm banning Ed.

ScarletRose. I never said I would market Gothic Chess. I said I would market an interchangable board going from 8 X 8 to 10 X 10 squares and would supply extra pieces to play Bird's Chess and Ultima. How you or I guess Ed have misconscrued that into some sort of patent infringement lawsuit is beyond me.

A simple convo turns icky.. and so you Ban Trice..

Proves my point.. that you go on provoking the subject.. and when you tire of it.. you can just lay the ban down..

Feel all powerful now!??

why is it.. that boys feel they have to keep resisting and pushing til it gets to this!!

Can't you all get along??

Step down from the position dear.. and let me take over for a bit..

Then.. when there is those moments of stress floatin around.. I can make sure to use strict discipline.. without anyone getting angry..

Wow - I never knew Trice had the "power" to sue someone for making other games, I thought he only had the patent on the rules of "Gothic Chess". I will be interested in how your lawyers spin this!

But I guess it was bound to come - Trice having "emotional distress" over other games that he feels he needs to get money from. If it's emotional distress, heck - many of us should sue Trice.

I just hope this event will final clear this site of Trice and his ramblings.

Walter.. you know what you were implying with your statement!!.. How can you feel good about that..?? for all these outsiders now.. you try to cover up your taunts.. and in doing so you discust me..

You Should be taken off your throne!

ScarletRose, if there's one person here who's doing the provoking it would be you. As for a feeling of power, I'm feeling rather weak right now. Nothing I say or do falls on Ed's deaf ears. So I'll take the hard line as he would do. It ain't the first time he's been banned from this board. If there's not a pattern or history of him being a problem shown through these actions, I guess you're oblivious to it. I've tried what I consider logical and well stated opinions on a subject. I've also tried to interject humor or analogies into some of my other posts only to have them picked apart and completely turned on their head. Now I'm being threatened with a lawsuit from some blowhard that you say is a nice guy and all he does is stir up trouble. He had his say. Let him take it Fencer. In the meantime, I'm banning you too.

I'm a new bloke to Gothic. But before I lay me down for sleep I gotta put me pennies worth out. Down with Walter, aye to that!

From: EdTrice - reading message
Date and time: 24. October 2004, 16:09:05
Subject: The link to my lawsuit against you...

...will be posted noon on Moday. They will be able to see a PDF of the docket. They will be able to see your name. Fencer will give me the address information he has on you, and you will be required to come cross country and prove that I am wrong, that you are marketing something else.

You asked for it, I have members already preparing their notorized depositions.

Have fun Walter

===========================================
As you can see, he really says he's going to sue me.
============================================
====
EdTrice (2434) Re: Ed? 24. October 2004, 15:45:18
Modified by EdTrice (24. October 2004, 15:47:22)
I will have you served. Your text has already been sent to:

Fencer, my attorneys at D,B & R, and my patent agent contact at the USPTO. Even if you do not go through with it, you expressed malcontent and willful defiance, enough for me to go after you for "emotional distress."

See you in court Walter. Hope you have about $100,000 sitting around, this is what it will cost you
===============================================
=
Along with this previous post, I must conclude that I'm quite confused. If his threats are valid, what does he expect to gain? If he is a blowhard, he's picked the wrong person to push around. $100,000. Yeah, sure, I'll just cut you a check my son. I'll be waiting for them papers. When he posts the link, I'll post it here and then the court of public opinion can have first crack at it. My life has been pretty dull lately. Going to court for a patent infringement lawsuit sounds like fun. My neighbors will be quite impressed to see me on the evening news defending myself against a game "inventor". Since I have no money I'll have to search around for a lawyer that'll take the case for free and see what happens. I sure hope he sent his lawyers my posts. They'll look at him and withhold their laughter and tell him he has no case. If they take the case, it'll be Ed's money going down the drain, not mine. This is starting to cause me a lot of emotional distress. I'm trying to have fun with it, but you never really know who you're dealing with here on the internet.

We may see you on America's Most Wanted

Assuming Ed is right about bwildman wanting me removed, Thomas Barnes just put in his 2¢ for it as he just stated. That makes 8 for my removal and 3 for my retention. I also vote for myself. So that's 4 for me staying. After the count gets to say a hundred concerned people maybe we can do something about it.

I was one of those who sent PM to remove Walter. As much as I remember after some of first anti-patent messages , Ed insisted to discuss it via private messages but Walter continued it in public. The result was that instead of some nice analysis of Gothic Chess (no doubt Ed is the best player here), we had lots of discuss about law. I think this DB is for chess students not law students.
So the job of moderator was to cut it at first as Ed insisted, but sadly it was moderator who started and continued it.
Please , solve your problems privately , or in the real world.

This board is getting out of hand. As a moderator, the job is to keep it under control and to maintain order. This board should be clean, but also should be free from angry posts and malicious intent. As a moderator Walter has done the opposite of what a moderator is supposed to do by starting arguments and inflaming situations that he has helped create.

Ed Trice as a player has done a great deal to promote this most balanced yet version of 8x10 chess, has promoted the game in his home city, and has provided interesting games and discussion about gothic chess. But, as a patent holder he has taunted people and has disrupted this board. He shamelessly files lawsuites to which he and everyone else know are not valid because walter proposed to make sets which he will not mention the gothic setup. Ed Trice himself has said that someone else should pattent Bird's chess if they want, which means he does not hold the patent on every setup of 10x8 chess. 10 x 10 grand chess sets have been selling for years.

Ed Trice is only doing this to get even with someone who expresses his opinion challenging him. It is something very low. It is something so _stupid_ that everyone can see. What is the character of a person who acts agressively and is vengeful?

Since Ed Trice has already said he is leaving after he finished his games, and since his presence here we would be better off without, Ed Trice should remain banned. He has a website to post relavent gothic chess things.

Walter should see for himself how he has been acting and should step down himself. He has no right to get involved into his own petty arguments with members of this board. A moderator should be understanding and sensible. Walter does not have the characteristics to be a good moderator.

Think about the forums you have gone to which have very immature users who make flame wars, who insult, and act childish. Is this board going in that direction? Everyone should see to it that they post responsively. The reason I go here is to read insightful and thoughful posts about gothic chess. I hope that is why you people come to this board. If you want to turn it into something ugly, then you should go to some other site. Take a look and see for yourslef when the last time someone posted something good about the game which benefits all of us, and how many posts some trash is posted.

Walter...everything your doing is wrong as a moderator!!! When the board is lit up like a Christmas tree with all kinds of stupid posts thats when WE need a Moderator...not someone just sitting back until the fuse blows anf Fencer has to step in!!
Or when the Moderator WILLFULLY adds fuel to the fire with his posts which are aimed at provoking others!
You are either an ABSENT Moderator or one that when he posts just makes matters worse, and worse, and worse!!
Scarlet is right...you should step down from your Throne! I say we give Thad a chance!!