Question to the group:

Would you trade your Queen for an Archbishop and Knight? How about an Archbishop and Bishop?

Just trying to get a sense for what people think about this exchange.

I am for the last option! :-))
No, just kidding. I am going to support this event as much as I can.

Rarely. The new pieces are what give problems to the inexperienced Gothic Player [including me at times]. I prefer to keep all the new pieces haphazardly on the board as people usually miss the possibles arising from these 'new' pieces.

To answer your Q. Yes and No.

YES if other factors mitigate that I remove wood from the board quickly [like me being subject to a massive attack], and NO if I am already dominant in material or position. In the long run, the Q is USUALLY more damaging [IMHO] due to its multi-directional range compared with the AB and would most likely get another pawn or two before being removed from the board.

An example is the game which I just sent to Ed. It being a tough game, I was playing with AB-B-R vs N-N-B-R and found it difficult to do anything about the N pair. I think the K has got to go nearer [and risk getting attacked] for an AB to take out 2N in the endgame.

I would keep Archbishop + Knight(or Bishop) without doubt. They seem stronger than a lone Queen!
In the begininng, in the middlegame and in the final too :)

I think the ArchBishop is one of the most valueable pieces in Gothic Chess. My game seems to thrive on the complexities that this piece introduces to Gothic. Although, there comes a time in the game when one is forced to swap or win a Queen for a ArchBishop + Minor piece.

Sooooo...I say look at the position before making these exchanges. Overall though, I like my ArchBishop...I guess its the Catholic in me:)

The winner should get more money...after all you are going to be the Gothic World Champion!!

Winner: 70% of the pot
2nd Place: 15% of the pot
Brainking: 5% of the pot
GCF: The rest

Also, a $50 entrance fee seems very fair!!

Using Rob's numbers, here is what we would announce for the winners based on 100 entrants:

$50: 1st = $3500; 2nd = $750; BK=$250

This would strongly encourage the last two finalists to really duke it out!!

Yesterday, I went to Ed's Patent party/Ellie(his wife) birthday party. There was Gothic Chess playing and talk of our current tournament, as well as, the Gothic Chess Championship that we all have been trying to figure out here on this discussion board.

Well, there are new players on the horizon and I think we all should take a look behind us or below us:) The next generation of Gothic players has arrived! Ed's daughter Brittany is a player! We played a Blitz game and she gave me all I could handle. She played an unusual opening and had tactical vision which I was surprised and was caught off guard with! I just managed to pull out a win after a great Queenside castle move she made! I was in time trouble and after I lost my Queen which was pinned to my king by her Rook, I pulled out a tough victory with an ArchBishop mate.

Brittany is 7 1/2 years old....and don't forget the 1/2!! I wish I was Brittany's age learning Gothic Chess...maybe I would have a fighting chance against all of these young upstarts!
Anyway, I think Brittany deserves a round of applause for her nicely played game against me!!

Don't be surprised if the turnout is much better than you would expect based on the survey...

Why I was not invited? I am very angry about it!:)

After a shakey start, this game, #114689, proved to have a very interesting ending. Of the final 4 moves, 2 were knight forks & one was actually an archbishop "fork", which also administered the coup de grace.

That, my friend, is what we used to refer to as "a zinger!" Nice one! :)

Juan vs. Ed

In the game above, played from round 1 of the finals between Juan Grande and myself, I had miscued and Juan fought back with a brilliant strategy.

I overexposed the King and Juan's Archbishop + minor were better than my cramped Queen and Rook.

At this point in the game, with White to move, I found a long sequence that forced a draw. When Juan played 38. h7+ next, I was able to announce a win.

The first person to show the entire line of the correct play for white to move and draw will win a FREE Gothic Chess stainless steel mug.

Start your engines!

I love the ending to your game! A good combination of piece placement to take the heart out of your opponent, as well as, the game!

It was a strange ending, typical of the punishment I deserved for underestimating the resolve of my opponent!

The only way to win was to allow the Bishop to be captured, a very risky ordeal since it was parked in the h-file where not one but two passed pawns were heading down the pike!

Once the Archbishop expended the energy to capture the Bishop, I could exhaust all of the checks. This was a very lengthy exercise in running an Archbishop out of gas -- The Battle of The Bulge brought to Gothic Chess.

I am not very clear about this. White to move and draw, starting from which move in the game? I suppose that this would be the alternative move to juangrande's 36. h7+. Is that right?

Hello Ed, congratulations for your win against juan! I observed this game and thought (without analysis)after juans ´s brave 35.move that he has the possibility of a win because his very mobile AB and your offside standing rook.
Instead 38.h7+? I saw 38.Ng5!? Nd5 39.h7+ with four variants :
a)39...Kj8? 40.Ah6+ Bi7 41.Ni6++
b)39...Kj7? 40.Ah5+ Kj8 41.Ni6+ Kj7 42.Nxh8+ +-
c)39...Qxh7?! 41.Nxh7 Kxh7 41.Ai5+ unclear,perhaps += because of the very mobile AB
d)39...Ki7! 40.Ah5+ Kh6 (40...Kj8? Ni6+ etc +-)41.Aj7+ Ki7 (41..Kg6 41 Ag5+ Kh5
(41..Kf6?42.Bxd4+ 42.Ke7 Ag6+ 43.Kd6 +-)42.Aj7+ =)42.Ag5+ Kh6 =
What do you think about these variants?
Wow, it is now my job to win the first game against you? :)

65, go to my original post, and you will see a link at the very top, Juan vs. Ed, and this will take you directly to the move.

CaissasDream is on the right track, but there is no win for white as black can dispose of the Queen since the white Rook is already sac-exchanged.

I give 38. Ng5!! as it is the only way to draw. Black basically has only four moves to consider at this point: 38...Qe8, 38...Ng6, 38...Nc6, or 38...Nd5, so tell me which one you think leads to the draw.

Hi GCP ... tried the link to the game and it throws me out to the login screen. i then tried the game id from querying the tag and came up with a game not found, probably deleted ... so can you post the actual game number please (I thought it used to be here but that post seems to have been deleted?) Cheers W.

Try pasting this into your browser then

http://brainking.com/game/ArchivedGame?g=99916&i=74

The problem is if you are missing the "www" from the start of that, and your cookies have the "www" in it, you get the logon screen. So try this:

http://www.brainking.com/game/ArchivedGame?g=99916&i=74

BBW (BIG BAD WOLF)

OK, to help you guys out, here is the position again, this time with a little hint:

Juan vs. Ed

After 38. Ng5!! I will play 38...Ng6 and I claim white to move can draw.

If Caissas can win this, I would like to play the black pieces against his upcoming moves just to prove black has no worries at all :)

But, white should still be able to draw this line, and the first to do so wins the mug :)

OK, I'll step up to the plate; after all, it's my game! In fact, I think perhaps I should get a GCA mug just for coming up with the idea of 35.Rxh6+ against Ed. :-)

After 38...Ng6, 39.h7+ Ki7 40.Ah5+ Kh6 41.Aj7+ Kg7 42.Ah5+ Kh6= (42...Kf8 Axg6+)

After 38...Qe8, 39.h5 (with the idea 40.h7+ Ki7 41.h6+ Kj6 42.Ai6 Ng6 43.Ah5+ Ki5 44.Aj4+ Kj6=). If 39...Qf8, then 40.Ai5 followed by 41.Ah7+ Kj6 42.Ai5+ Ki8=. Moving the Bishop doesn't help: For example 40...Bf6 41.Ah7+ Kh8 42.Ai6+ Ki8=.

After 38...Nc6, 41.Ai5 followed by 42.Ag6+ Kj7 43.Ai5+ Ki8=. If 41...Rg8, then 42.h7+ followed by 43.hxg8=Q (or, perhpaps, 43.hxg8=C). If 41...Qj7, then 42.Ag6+ Kj8 43.Nh7+ Ki8 44.Ni5+ wins Black's Queen for a Knight.

But Juan,after 38...Ng6, 39.h7+ he plays 39...Qxh7 40.Nxh7 Kxh7 and this is the critical position you have to prove...,probably a little bit better for black...

By the way this is the same kind of mug they sell in target for $14, it is stainless steel and has one of those thermal lids that keeps hot stuff hot for hours! I bought 300 hundred of them, so I need to make some damn money on this deal :)

Anyway, Caissas has the correct idea, exchanging off the queen for the Rook, Knight and Pawn is the only way to keep Black from getting in trouble.

With the king off of the back rank and the Rook able to eventually get free, white would have to settle for a 3-fold repetition.

So, after 40...Kxh7 continue, you are not out of the woods yet :)

Interesting! I admit to not considering 39...Qxh7 seriously since it appeared to give up Black's advantage. OK, I've spent enough time on this and don't see how White can force a draw in this line, although it seems to me that Black's chances for winning have essentially evaporated. I guess I'll just have to use the stainless steel mug I already have! :-)

You can't give up analyzing your OWN GAME! Back to work!

Aaarghh! I've lost one game in my section of $250 tourney. Luckily, my opponent has one lost game as well so I hope that S-B points will work for me ;-)

Of course I can! What is this? Boot camp? ROFL!

It appears to me that after 39...Qxh7 40.Nxh7 Kxh7, White must play 41.h5 (41.Ah5 doesn't seem to go anywhere since it doesn't even set up a check next move). Then, after 41...Nxf4 42.Ai5+ Ki7 43.Bc1 e5 44.Ng6+ Kh6, it's not at all clear (at least to me) how White is supposed to force a perpetual check. It does appear that White can gobble up a couple of Pawns along the way and that his chances of holding the draw are excellent, though.

...I am trying to remain IMPARTIAL as this is a CONTEST...but if you show me SOMETHING leading to a perpetual check draw you get the mug.

If Cassias, whose GAME this is NOT, but who seems to be closer to the mark in being able to analyze it....should he show the correct sequence, the mug is his.

Now back to work, this IS boot camp LOL!

Another example of "lethal archbishop":

Here :-)

That is defintely a pounder!

Today I received my Gothic Chess Set and I would like to say that it is a beautiful set. Even in very low like it shines. I would suggest that anyone who doesn't have one yet should spend the 36 bucks and join the future of chess. Thank you Ed.
GK

Aren't we playing for the title of World Champion in the current BrainKing Gothic Chess Tournament? I thought that was what you mentioned in a previous message.

Nope. Just money.

I thought that World Championship was planned for September, wasn't it?

Yes, it is planned for September, but as I read his question, which uses the present tense:

"Aren't we playing for the title of World Champion in the current BrainKing Gothic Chess Tournament?"

I took that to mean 65 thinks that the winner of the CURRENT 103 player tournament would be the World Champion, and this is not the case. Whoever wins that tournament would be $250 richer.

The World Championship will have an entrance fee, and the winner will get thousands of dollars, not just a few hundred.

With the new download-feature in pgn,fencer gave us a good possibility to collect and read games with a pgn-reader.
Naturally we can not play with these utilities games on a 10x8 board (only standard chess)Perhaps there is a computerfreak who can produces a pgn-player for 10x8 boards? Best would be with the Gothic and Janus pieces.

I am already working on a way to catalog all of the games here on BrainKing, but it is a ways off.

I think one of my partners at www.the65thsquare.com is working on our own viewer for Chess, and is trying to figure out how to implement the system for use with Gothic. The Janus one might have to wait. He's busy trying to get a degree in Programming or something like that..

I am wondering how many people would pay a $50 entrance fee to play for the World Championship Qualifying event here on BrainKing?

I would not participate, of course, but the winner would play me for the title.

As soon as the person wins, they get the $1500 second prize money, since they can do no worse than this. If they beat me, they get another $1500.

What do you guys think? Would you pay to play?

I might. But I'm hoping that maybe the top 10 could get a little bit of return, somewhat like in golf, so there is some hope of a return even if you dont make it all the way.

I would like to play but I currently have no extra money to pay. On the other hand, the situation can be better on September :-)

I certainly would play!!! I think only the top 2 players should get money, but I'm sure if we got 200 or more players in the tournament that we can have an alternate winning formula prepared. September isn't that far away but i think $50 is a steal of an entrance fee to win this kind of money! Also, I think Ed's offer of playing him to win an additional $1500 is very generous and we would be crazy to turn this down.

I am thinking $50 to enter, with 8 player sections. The winner of each section gets $150, no matter what, paid immediately as the results are determined.

This way there is one payout for every 8 entrants, independent of the total number of players.


There would then be a payout to the finalist who wins this event, and this dollar amount would depend on how many sections we have.

My thoughts are that this payout should be very, very high. Like ridiculously high.

When the person plays me thereafter, it would be for a trophy and a title with the money depending only on how many are in the tournament.

Some examples:

8 sections of 8 players will produce 8 winners of $150. The person who wins the tournament would get an additional $1000 and gets to play me for the title of World Champion, but there is little money left over for this.

The more sections we have, the richer the payout is.

10 sections, $1250 to the winner
15 sections, $1875 to the winner
20 sections, $2500 to the winner

What do you guys think?

Are you taking into account rounds 2 and 3 having the $150 dollar payout as well? Or just round 1?

If there was 16 sections of 8 players in round 1, assuming that there is only one winner per section, there would be 16 players divided into two sections for round 2. Would the winners of those two sections also get the $150?

That would be a $300 payout per $400 of entrance fees, leaving nothing of substance for the winner.

The formula will be:

$150 per preliminary section round winner, no matter how many sections.

If we used your example, with 16 sections and a second tier of payouts, then only $1600 would be available to the FINALIST who gets to play me for the world championship.

I think you will agree a split of $1000 to the winner then $600 to the runner up is rather thin for such a grand title.

The finalist who wins the whole thing will get another $125 times the total sections playing at the start. With your 16 section example, that is $2000 for the finalist.

When figuring out the payouts, why not include some other things like mugs, board, etc... (other non-cash items).

How much are the chess sets?

What I am thinking is that maybe (for bunnies like me unlikely to get past the first round) it would be the extra enticement to get me in. It would mean the entrance fee might need to increase to say $75 but that way every participant gets some recognition of being in the comp and doesn't go away empty handed. It would be great for working through games and could be embossed with something like "PARTICPANT IN THE FIRST WORLD GOTHIC CHESS CHAMPIONSHIP". Probably wouldn't work next time (as many would already have sets) but that is a while away. It would also have the benefit that it gets the tangible product out into the world and not just left being played (for most of us) on here.

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