The live site at http://www.GothicChessLive.com now has game timers, including the Fischer clock for time increments, as well as a rating system for bullet, blitz, and regular time controls.

Grim Reaper: Come on, Ed, you calculated that mate in two-hundred-something moves, this one should be easy-peasy :)

Thanks for the Kudos Ed...other blitz it's been a long time since I beat you!

ChessCarpenter:

Yeah I must be geting old. Wait, we are almost the exact same age.

Grim Reaper: There are some translaters on-line which will translate "most" of it for you. (quick search found this place: http://translation2.paralink.com/ - but only 500 characters at a time here so it might take awhile to translate) - but there are others also.

BIG BAD WOLF: No computer-based translator will EVER give you an exact translation. Even though it might be able to give you a little clue of what the text is about (if it is simple enough), never rely on it much. In my opinion, this a good example of an industry where computers will never surpass humans.

WhiteTower: Grim Reaper: Come on, Ed, you calculated that mate in two-hundred-something moves, this one should be easy-peasy :)

Actually, it was 268 moves, and that was an endgame database generator program, not me!

The longest mate I think I actually correctly predicted on here was in 33 moves.

Here is the page with the mate in 268 (scroll down.) I think the mate in 202 was much more interesting, since it was Archbishop vs. Bishop + Knight.

http://www.gothicchess.org/gv_release.html

Pedro Martínez: NEVER say NEVER!

Here are some more pictures of Alexis Skye...

http://www.gothicchess.org/alexis_pictures.html

Don't forget there is a "win a date with her" tournament started September 1st!

I FINALLY have my first provisional Gothic rating!

ColonelCrockett: Congratulations. well done!

Nasmichael: thx! :)

ColonelCrockett: Looks like you made the list at #17 so far. Why not challenge Dresden at #16 and see what happens?

http://brainking.com/en/Profile?u=12010

The secret lies with Charlotte.

Grim Reaper: hehehe, I'll think about it but I have already been introduced into a game with HerculesBeast(2159, #?). Dresden will most likely have a turn at my scalp eventually. :)

White pawn: a2
White Knight: a1
White King: i1
Black King: i8
Black Knight: j8

White to move can only draw!

But, move the white King from i1 to h1, and it is a mate in 33 where the pawn promotes to a Chancellor to win most quickly.

It would be good to read about the conditions then.

May be these days I have already seen the coming winner program ;-) here with Smirf. See the following two games:


[Event "Feared opponents today"]
[Site "CHESSBOX"]
[Date "2005.08.22"]
[Time "20:37:10"]
[Round "Bird's Array 1 (45 sec/move)"]
[White "ChessV Ver. 0.81 (own GUI)"]
[Black "Smirf Beta BC-1.06 (own GUI)"]
[Result "0-1"]
[Annotator "R. Scharnagl"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "rnbcqkabnr/pppppppppp/10/10/10/10/PPPPPPPPPP/RNB CQKABNR w KQkq - 0 1"]

1. Nc3 Nh6 {(11.01) -0.071} 2. f3 g6 {(10.06) +0.047} 3. Nb5 Na6
{(10.33)+0.565} 4. a3 d5 {(10.24) +1.088} 5. a4 f5 {(10.00) +1.097} 6. d3 Bd7
{(09.03)+1.267} 7. Be3 Bxb5 {(09.18) +1.653} 8. axb5 Qxb5 {(11.21) +1.595} 9.
c3 c5 {(10.08) +1.754} 10. d4 b6 {(09.08) +1.566} 11. Af2 Bf6 {(08.38) +1.747}
12. Cb1 cxd4 {(08.26) +2.119} 13. cxd4 Nb8 {(09.54) +1.447} 14. Qd2 Qd7
{(09.03)+1.345} 15. Nh3 Nc6 {(08.06) +1.117} 16. Cd1 j5 {(09.02) +1.384} 17.
Rc1 e5 {(08.40) +1.635} 18. dxe5 Bxe5 {(10.00) +1.399} 19. Bxb6 axb6
{(11.18)+2.345} 20. b3 d4 {(09.34) +6.702} 21. Rb1 Ni4 {(08.66) +7.034} 22.
Ai5+ Ke8 {(11.00)+7.821} 23. Kf2 Nxh2 {(09.24) +7.888} 24. Ri1 Ra3 {(09.50)
+8.290} 25. Ah4 Bf6 {(08.48) +8.374} 26. Ag3 Ni4 {(09.34) +8.210} 27. Af4 Ri8
{(09.33)+8.389} 28. Qb2 Ae7 {(09.06) +8.591} 29. Ac1 Qd6 {(09.51) +8.979} 30.
f4 Nxj2 {(09.50)+8.896} 31. Nxj2 d3 {(10.41) +8.938} 32. Qxa3 Qxa3 {(11.54)
+9.488} 33. b4 Qxc1 {(10.61) +13.16} 34. Rxc1 d2 {(11.01) +13.08} 35. Rb1 Nxb4
{(11.11)+13.10} 36. e3 Cd3+ {(12.40) +19.31} 37. Kf3 Ad5+ {(12.37) +32.47} 38.
Kg3 Axf4+ {(10.01=)+M~006} 39. Kf3 Bxj2 {(09.01=) +M~005} 40. g3 Ce5+
{(06.01=)+M~004} 41. Kxf4 Nd3# {(04.00?) +M~001} 0-1

[Event "Feared opponents today"]
[Site "CHESSBOX"]
[Date "2005.08.25"]
[Time "21:01:59"]
[Round "Gothic Chess 1 (30 sec/move)"]
[White "Gothic Vortex Gold (own GUI)"]
[Black "Smirf Beta BC-1.08 (own GUI)"]
[Result "0-1"]
[Annotator "R. Scharnagl"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "rnbqckabnr/pppppppppp/10/10/10/10/PPPPPPPPPP/RNB QCKABNR w KQkq - 0 1"]

{The time limit has been passed.} 1. g4 g6 {(10.04) +0.042} 2. Nh3 d6
{(10.00)+0.159} 3. Nc3 Nh6 {(09.37) +0.195} 4. g5 Nf5 {(10.01) +0.215} 5. Be4
c6 {(10.00) +0.345} 6. e3 h5 {(09.03=) +0.560} 7. gxh6 Axh6 {(10.00) +0.601} 8.
d3 Nh4 {(08.01) +1.257} 9. Bh1 Bxc3 {(09.18) +1.435} 10. bxc3 Ag4 {(10.01)
+1.561} 11. f3 Af6 {(10.02=) +1.612} 12. e4 Axc3 {(10.33) +2.412} 13. Bxi7 Axd1
{(11.18) +2.430} 14. Cxd1 Ri8 {(12.00) +2.300} 15. Bh6+ Kg8 {(10.00) +2.714}
16. Bi5 Rh8 {(09.01) +2.829} 17. j4 Cf6 {(08.28) +2.829} 18. Ce3 Rh5
{(09.22)+2.945} 19. Nj2 Kh8 {(08.03) +3.558} 20. h3 Na6 {(09.19) +3.526} 21.
Ni4 Qa5 {(08.04) +3.097} 22. Ce2 Nb4 {(08.39) +2.961} 23. a3 Na6 {(08.16)
+2.678} 24. a4 Nb4 {(09.26) +3.081} 25. Cc1 Qe5 {(07.58) +3.384} 26. c3 Na6
{(08.41)+2.738} 27. Nh6 Qg5 {(09.01) +2.877} 28. Nxj7+ Ki8 {(11.00) +3.046} 29.
Bxh4 Rxh4 {(10.02) +3.301} 30. Ni5 Nc5 {(08.33) +3.301} 31. Cd1 Be6 {(07.33)
+3.311} 32. Nj3 Rf4 {(09.01=) +4.358} 33. Nh2 Nxd3 {(08.31) +5.347} 34. Ng4 Bc4
{(09.02) +6.284} 35. Nxf6 Nb2+ {(09.22) +6.706} 36. Kf2 Nxd1+ {(10.38) +5.908}
37. Rxd1 Qxf6 {(11.01) +5.767} 38. Rd4 Ba6 {(11.02=) +6.639} 39. Kg3 Qe5
{(12.02=) +6.324} 40. Kg2 c5 {(10.16=) +6.324} 41. Rd5 Qxc3 {(12.00) +6.261}
42. Ah2 Qb2+ {(11.02=) +6.789} 43. Kg3 e5 {(10.32) +6.633} 44. Rxd6 c4
{(10.27)+7.173} 45. Bg2 c3 {(10.17) +7.304} 46. Rdd1 Be2 {(10.16) +7.679} 47.
Ra1 Qd2 {(09.01) +8.181} 48. h4 Rxh4 {(11.01) +9.604} 49. Bh3 Rh5 {(09.12=)
+9.604} 50. Ag4 Rg5 {(11.01) +10.69} 51. Kh4 Rxg4+ {(12.02) +11.43} 52. fxg4 c2
{(12.11)+11.78} 53. Rjc1 Qh6+ {(11.32) +12.20} 54. Ki4 Rc8 {(12.00) +12.33} 55.
j5 Qg5 {(11.01) +13.10} 56. a5 Bxg4 {(13.02=) +14.14} 57. Bxg4 Qxg4+ {(13.12)
+14.35} 58. Kj3 Qg5 {(13.07) +15.39} 59. Rh1 Rc3+ {(15.02=) +17.62} 60. Rh3
c1=Q {(15.18) +24.46} 61. Rxc1 Qxj5+ {(15.01=) +M~009} 62. Ki3 Qi5+
{(14.01=)+M~008} 63. Kj3 Rxc1 {(12.01=) +M~006} 64. Kj2 Qj4+ {(09.01=) +M~005}
65. Rj3 Qh4+ {(07.01=) +M~004} 66. Ri3+ Kj7 {(06.01=) +M~003} 67. a6 bxa6
{(05.01=)+M~002} 68. Kj3 Rj1# {(03.00?) +M~001} 0-1

Regards, Reinhard.

WOW! Impressive. Convincing win against the invincible before a year Gothic Vortex.......
The FEN tags on your post are wrong, because an empty line is inserted probably by Brainking's system -a known bug-.....
Anyone wants to see the game should copy and paste this to a text-editor and remove the empty line.....

Bird's array should have the chancellor and archbishop switched.

Remember, his cardinal and marshall were DIFFERENT than Capablanca's, and later when they were called Chancellor and Archbishop, they were translated "flopped".

The Bird setup you can play this mate in 2 with:

1. Ch3 Nc6?? 2. Cxh7#

Grim Reaper:
Bird's array should have the chancellor and archbishop switched.

One source for Bird's setup is: http://www.chessvariants.org/large.dir/bird.html . Is that document wrong?

Obviously ChessV and Smirf agree in the arrangement of this array. I chosed that array to be able to play a 10x8 game against ChessV with SMIRF.

Early matings would be a weakness. But also in Gothic Chess there are possible cooperative mates in 3, so look at following:

FEN: rnbqckabnr/pppppppppp/10/10/10/10/PPPPPPPPPP/RNBQ CKABNR w KQkq - 0 1

Ply Nodes all (x) (e.p.) all (+) (#) Prom. Castl. Sec.
------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------
1 28 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
2 784 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
3 25283 387 0 120 0 0 0 0
4 808984 14812 0 4019 0 0 0 0
5 28946187 907953 468 304360 398 0 0 0.5
6 1025229212 36740962 14017 11052055 17277 0 0 9.9
-------------------------------------------- -----------------------------------

P.S.: I see that the text is hard to be read :-( .

I researched the different boards, but some people only translated the names, and not the piece movements associated with them. For example, Capablanca had a Cardinal and a Marshall at one point in time, so did Bird. But Capablanca changed his pieces to Marshall and Chancellor, then Chancellor and Archbishop. So most people do not take into account Bird's Cardinal is not the Archbishop, it was our Chancellor, and his Marshall is not a Chancellor, but was the Archbishop.

It is very confusing, I know.

By the way, Gothic Vortex now has the SMP code turned on, so it takes advantage of multiprocessor machines. I have also finished the code to have it probe the 5-piece tablebases in RAM. And I converted it to 64-bit native code.

On a 4x Opteron, it searches at 3.5 million positions per second.

The Vortex in the next World Championship will be very, very different :)

Grim Reaper:

Well, I have no comparable hardware at hands. Thus I am only able to compete by brain. If such an event would that way mutating you will simply find out, that better hardware mostly would have better results.

Maybe we can have the programs play on GothicChessLive.com and have an interface for them to send moves to it?

What do you think?

Grim Reaper:

Well I remember that there seems to be a concept for that move exchange between computers. I neither have the latest information on that useful concept nor a working counterpart for testing. Using SMIRF with a second SMIRF would merely test the compatibility to itself.

If that concept would be working, the live playing online server could act as an in between information broker.

But having a program play online there, this will of course be andvantageous for the GC live server and the GC site, but hardly for the always there accessible programs.

Yeah I need to publish the spec for the automated play. I have it maybe 98% done.

Quite brave of Fencer to go that far. At least Ed's live site might get more traffic this way :)

I have a contract with Filip's signature on it. Paragraph 6 states:

6. ADDITIONAL STIPULATIONS - In addition, the Licensee will host the domain of GothicChess.org at no cost to the Licenser for the same duration. The Licensee will also include the following text in the descriptions of the rules of the game as they appear on BrainKing.com:

Gothic Chess is an 80-square variation of chess that adds two ne pieces to the board: an Archbishop, and a Chancellor. This game is most closely related to Capablanca's Chess and Bird's Chess, invented by Ed Trice in the year 2000.


You can see that the current description does not come close to matching this:

Gothic Chess is a variant of Bird's or Capablanca's Chess that has the Archbishop (Knight + Bishop) and Chancellor (Knight + Rook) set up slightly different. It is played on an 8 x 10 chessboard.

This license is also in effect until March 31, 2007.

I have given Filip every opportunity to honor the contract.

It will take some time, but BrainKing.com will honor the contract.

Grim Reaper: The text you want is here, is it not?

BuilderQ: Yup, it looks like it is in the game description. Does not say that exact thing in the game overview, but in the description of the game, I see it.

"descriptions" is plural -- everywhere rules are described, the description is required.

I asked Filip to make this change to be in full compliance, and he has elected to challenge it.

It is no longer up to me to help him, he has to help himself, or abide by a ruling by a 3rd party arbitrator.

Since this involves nobody other than Filip and myself, no other comments will be given on this matter.

"...following text in the descriptions of the rules.."

Where else are the RULES of Gothic Chess at?

If you do a new game, you will see ". (read all rules)" next to every description.

This implies what you are reading are rules, or a subset of the rules.

Ipse idem, in legal terms.

Grim Reaper: Hum... well I don't see those as "descriptions of the rules". Well, good luck with that.

Like I said, the legal term is Ipse Idem, which translates as "the terms are the same" or "the meanings are equal" depending on the application. There should really be no further public discussion of this, do you not agree?

Grim Reaper: I agree that there is no need for any further public discussion. It is an issue between you and Fencer.

Anyone who has won their sections in this tournament should contact me for their prizes:

http://brainking.com/en/Tournaments?trg=6703&tri=25674&trnst=2&tp=41

I am up for suggestions on how to determine a winner. Perhaps on http://www.GothicChessLive.com one evening?

Vortex VI

A new version of Gothic Vortex is being prepared. I am including a PGN archive of games played on BrainKing.

If you would like your games to be made available on CD, download all of your games, and send them to me at GothicChessInfo@aol.com

Please make a zip archive of your games.

Thanks to all who participate!

at first: it is sadly that gothic chess will be removed here.

however you have to look at two things in my opinion.
1) Gothic Chess will be replaced by Capablanca Random Chess
2) The problems which caused the removal are not the game itself, but the inventor.

So I can understand Filips decision (he is right in my opinion) and I myself will not prolong gothicchess.at after the one-year period. If somebody wants to take the domain earlier please contact me.

Grim Reaper: Descriptions? plural? I cannot see a word ALL in front of the word DESCRIPTIONS in the contract. Some descriptions honor that, afaik at least once = some = descriptions

I bet this site added a lot to the popularity of your game, you make a lot of advertisements about your sites, programs, tournaments here. In your place I would give Fencer ultimate licence forever and send him at least $1000 (edited to be realistic) every year

fungame: unfortunatly....bad press, is still press.
I will be glad to see the bad press,finally come to an end.

Check out this game between Colonel Crockett and myself. He says he lost because he made opening mistakes;I contend his mistake was in the Middle game. He also said that I did not beat him;but he beat himself. I say this is not totally true; that my moves were fairly good ones;this is a opening system I invented myself long before I ever heard of Brainking.com. I have had very good success with it.

http://brainking.com/en/ArchivedGame?g=950868

I would like to believe, as white, I could win every time after black played 2..e5?

When a game is lost, the losing player may make any excuse, as all are equally valid

I used to tell people I lost because I had a sore thumb. :)

tedbarber: Mistake was 15....g5? The move 14...Cg7 was also not especially good. Why move chancellor away from a nice opened line?

In position after 14. Nc3 black should think about how to develop knight b8. Immediate 14...Nc6 doesn't work because of 15. Ad7. I would first check move 14.... Nf5 with idea 15...Ne3. Looks like 15. e4 dxe4 16. fxe4 Qxd4 17. Cd3 Qxd3 18. Qxd3 Ce5 fine for black. After 15. Cd3 Nc6 position of black also seems to be fine.

andreas: I agree with the assessment of my move 15 (part of the opening mistakes I was talking about). I would like to point out that tedbarber was rather rude in demanding my resignation in the later portion of this game and thus my comments (which he quotes accurately) were in response to his rudeness. He failed, however, to quote my praise of his taking advantage of my mistakes. As a side note it is gratifying to hear better players than myself ( and more experienced) agree with my assessment.

ColonelCrockett: I apologized for that; plus I did not demand your Resignation. I just pointed out that I had a won game and asked if you wanted to resign. I apologized,not because I thought I was rude;but because you thought I was. I see nothing wrong with pointing out a won game and giving my opponant a chance to resign. I consider it polite.

One of my opponants said Gothic Chess is being dropped; if this is so I intend to leave this site as soon as my present games are completed. Gothic Chess is my one and only reason for playing anything on this site. Sure I play other games;but Gothic is my one and reason for coming to and staying on any Site.

tedbarber: You'll be sorely missed. Don't let the door hit you on the way out. Whatever the deal is between them, I have asked to get a game added that is almost identical to Gothic Chess. It's called Embassy Chess. The only difference of the two games is the starting position of the Chancellors and Kings and names of the Chancellor and Archbishop, which are Marshall and Cardinal as in Grand Chess. Would you stay to play that game if the Gothic Chess is eliminated? Or even play it if Gothic Chess by some chance stays on the site? In the meantime, you ought to try Grand Chess. It is very similair to both games. The pieces are identical, but the Rooks start out with lots more mobility. From the few games of Grand Chess that I've started it seems to be a fast paced game with lots of traps and trouble from the very beginning of the game.

tedbarber: bad etiquette to point out how "bad" an opponent's position is midgame..if you're strangers. Walter has pointed it out to me in some of our games, but we've played each other about 50 times!