Sam has closed his piano and gone to bed ... now we can talk about the real stuff of life ... love, liberty and games such as Janus, Capablanca Random, Embassy Chess & the odd mention of other 10x8 variants is welcome too
For posting: - invitations to games (you can also use the New Game menu or for particular games: Janus; Capablanca Random; or Embassy) - information about upcoming tournaments - disussion of games (please limit this to completed games or discussion on how a game has arrived at a certain position ... speculation on who has an advantage or the benefits of potential moves is not permitted while that particular game is in progress) - links to interesting related sites (non-promotional)
Zoznam diskusných klubov
Nie je vám dovolené písať správy do tohto klubu. Minimálna úroveň členstva vyžadovaná na písanie v tomto klube je Brain pešiak.
Subjekt: Re: About the level of SMIRF engine program
Zmenené užívateľom SMIRF Engine (29. septembra 2005, 18:12:26)
jolat: well, you could see it yourself. Whenever Smirf's evaluation gets very low compared to the previous one, there it might have been a better move. SMIRF has not been designed primarily for blitz. So it actually could find its master there. Nevertheless I wonder about the circumstances. What has been the cache size? Was the other program always running (pondering)?
P.S. when I try to reconstruct it, on my computer I set 23 sec/move to get the first two answers. Already the third one would be f5. So there must be something what slows down SMIRF at your computer. Either you have other programs running or you have set the cache size very low.
Subjekt: Re: About the level of SMIRF engine program
jolat: To inspect the cache size simply watch under options, where the cache could be doubled or halved. And the other program should know, whether it would be pondering or not.
Subjekt: Re: About the level of SMIRF engine program
rabbitoid: Well, it is hard to make a distant analysis for that situation. The cache used should be sized between 40 MB and half of the available memory. And having two programs playing one against another at a single computer without several processors will make no sense if any of those programs would be pondering or (as possible in SMIRF) has activated its permanwent brain. Equal play could be awaited only at equally distributed resources.
Nevertheless SMIRF is no magic or divine program. It will be always subject for improvements.
Subjekt: Re: About the level of SMIRF engine program
Zillions is not a program specific to a type of game. It
is a multi-games program without specific engine for each game. For the majority of the games, it plays on a very low level.
I thus hoped that SMIRF plays in a higher way so that it can be taken as model to improve my personal play.
I would thus wait to buy SMIRF the
future improvements.
Subjekt: Re: About the level of SMIRF engine program
jolat: I used to have the old beta SMIRF program. I never once beat it. Then he updated the program and something happened when I played it, it moved fast and made bad moves. It also kept asking me for keys and things that the older version never asked for. Unfortunately, the new version took over the old one and I can't run the old one any more. So I stopped playing against the SMIRF.
Subjekt: Re: About the level of SMIRF engine program
Walter Montego: That is the way Shareware works. You could test its general abilities. But without having a personal key its strength is of course limited. Otherwise nearly nobody then ever would spend some money for SMIRF's development.
If you have installed the newer beta into the same folder as the old one, and you have NOT deleted the old INI file, then the new key would never have become valid. Because of that I have written such hints on my beta download page.
SMIRF has provided a two month valid free testing key, which just is expiring with October. If someone wants to test SMIRF's full abilities, he could request a personal limited testing key. But that is intended to be an exception.
Subjekt: Re: About the level of SMIRF engine program
jolat: Just hearing you describe that is not how I remember SMIRF playing. I've played Sumerian/SMIRF engine around 25 games on this site. At first I held my own and would win a game on occasion, but it has won about 15 in a row as Richard has improved it. When he made the updated version for home use I figured I'd get that if only because it had new features for displaying the moves and set ups and stuff. Had I known it would not play good any more and make it so I couldn't play the old program I would not have ever downloaded it. At least I have good opponents on this site to play against and Richard still will have his SMIRF play me on occasion. He tried to explain to me what to do, but I'm not much for messing with the computer and have just decided to not ever play it again until I hear it plays or works like it used to. By the way, we play Janus Chess when I play against the SMIRF. He has made the program play a few Chess games besides Janus Chess.
Subjekt: Re: About the level of SMIRF engine program
SMIRF Engine:
Does that want to say that the Version 1.1.0-0251-Beta
Test Smirf free until 2005/09/30 which I used, does
not have its maximum power and that one needs of the key even before the expiry the trial period to obtain that it plays on its maximum level?
Subjekt: Re: About the level of SMIRF engine program
jolat: No, if SMIRF would not use its full power during the applied testing period, it would be an error. But to examine that, I need more details as I have explained before.
Subjekt: Re: About the level of SMIRF engine program
Walter Montego: I am not yet ready with SMIRF. As always specified SMIRF has been a beta. And unfortunately I have got only very few feed back. So I have to test and fix and to improve without nearly any detailed resonance. When I am convinced that SMIRF would be ready to be distributed, I will announce that. Eventually there again will be a new serie of betas with a limited testing period. I will decide tomorrow.
Subjekt: Re: About the level of SMIRF engine program
SMIRF Engine: Frustration? You betcha! It would appear that I'm not the only one either. That's why I stopped playing it. It either played poorly or it kept asking me for keys after I downloaded the newer version. It is no longer fun to play even though it won every game before and now loses every game.
Subjekt: Re: About the level of SMIRF engine program
Walter Montego: well, I am just about to fix an error inserting CRC PGN's into SMIRF's GUI from Brainking directly by cut and paste. So there soon will be a new beta, and I will describe here how to start beta testing (for those who are interested).
The only tournament Smirf has participated has been in last November, where it tooks place four of eight in the Gothic Chess World Championship. But Smirf just has been born that time. Today it should be stronger.
Reinhard: Last time my time hasn't allowed me of properly testing Smirf and i feel ver sorry about this....I had millions things/tests to do with it, but all the situation -i had so many things to do back then (exams for university,football practice,studying 4 mathematical problems...etc)- prevented me from giving you any results since i run only a few games.....But this time is different. I have enough time to concentrate on Chess engines testing and Smirf.
So if you want to give me another chance i would be glad to test the newer Smirf.......
I'm the old "Chessmaster1000", George, so just tell me if you want another beta tester.....
The only tournament Smirf has participated has been in last November, where it tooks place four of eight in the Gothic Chess World Championship.
Today it will be 100% 2nd and ?% first........Assuming the strength of the opponents would be the same. If it's not then just the 100% would be 87%. The progress of Smirf is amazing....
I concluded the above from the 2 games you posted against Gothic Vortex and from some others....
Pythagoras: Well, everybody is invited to participate the beta testing. At http://www.chessbox.de/Compu/schachsmirf_e.html there is a download possibility. There will be in short a new beta version again testable free and unrestricted during October. But the problem is, that several people seem to have difficulties to delete previous Smirf's INI files before installing the new beta. Smirf cannot delete that file itself, because it would later contain the personal key, which should be preserved. I am thinking for a solution to make it more fail save.
Zmenené užívateľom Chicago Bulls (30. septembra 2005, 12:49:45)
I have installed newer Smirf beta on a clean interface(never installed any Smirf before) and faced the problem Walter and others describe. No matter what time i set per move for Smirf to play, it plays in 1-2 seconds.........
So it's not a matter of INI files but it is general. Smirf beta has a bug not allowing searcch of more than 1-2 seconds....
And that's of cource the reason for losing against Zillions. From 0.55 beta Smirf was already crushing Zillions. So now, current version should be able to perform around 90%+ against Zillions.......
I should note that current Gothic Vortex perform around 98%+ against Zillions....
Zmenené užívateľom SMIRF Engine (30. septembra 2005, 12:52:49)
Pythagoras: I hope to have that fixed until tomorrow.
Concerning Gothic and Janus Chess: Smirf does not support an opening library yet. Thus a learning opponent will outperform SMIRF soon. It actually is optimized for CRC and Chess960.
Now it works..........!
Only my old Gothic Chess key for playing Gothic Chess too doesn't work. Do you have any key to let it play against Gothic Vortex and Zillions........?
Zmenené užívateľom SMIRF Engine (30. septembra 2005, 14:04:40)
Pythagoras: Actually a GothicChess key could not be published generally, before agreements with Ed Trice will have been made. But those things are in progress, so I hope.
But in a VARIANTS.PGN attached to the current beta there is a loadable alternative MBC (Embassy), but only in mirrored view because of its unusual original castling. Maybe it also could be an interesting starting array.
I assume that creating a starting Gothic Chess X-FEN in the variants.PGN and matching Smirf against G.V and posting the results is not something illegal right.......? I mean making Smirf play Gothic Chess with a indirect way, is not something illegal right.....?
Pythagoras: what should I say? I am not a lawer. In any case Smirf will not automatically produce a GC starting array without having a GC license. Thus the GC button will be disabled then, too.
Reinhard: I played with Smirf several Blitz games in Janus, CRC and Bird's chess and two draws were the only I could achieve. I hardly hit any problems, it hang once, but there were no other serious problems. There are certainly some features which I miss in Smirf GUI:
* menu item "Resign" (I rarely want to play until checkmate)
* "Analyze" mode, which would allow me to play with myself (analize game) and Smirf engine would run in backround with infinite search time, suggesting the best moves
* In position editor selector of white/black piece set is tied with specifing which side moves after editing done. It would be better to separate this.
* It would be nice to have a collection of .pgn game for different chess variants supported by Smirf. Especially Janus chess games played by chess grandmasters would be interesting if you manage to find them (two games by Yusupov and Leko one can find on http://www.janusschach.de)
Zmenené užívateľom SMIRF Engine (30. septembra 2005, 22:29:07)
andreas: thank you, Andreas, for your feedback! SMIRF is not designed to play Blitz well. It should develop positional ideas and therefore needs some time for a good answer. But technically it plays Blitz, too. I have read your suggestions, there will be an analyse mode soon. You will have noticed, that SMIRF is always making a sort of multivariant modus by its move-pair iterative deepening. If a second best move seems to be about as good as the best one, then in the PV it will follow the best move in "()". SMIRF GUI + Engine is still a one man project. So it will need time to enrich the package with new elements.
SMIRF Engine: Fencer says he's going to add Embassy Chess. Will you add it to SMIRF without having to play it mirrored imaged because of the castling difference?
Zmenené užívateľom SMIRF Engine (1. októbra 2005, 17:14:58)
Walter Montego: as I already have tried to explain, SMIRF is only able to play the mirrored MBC array, because of the intended unorthodox castling. I do not intend to implement a third method of castling yet, because that would affect very central parts of the program.
Me = Me Time= 40/20' + 40/20' + 20' (around 30 sec/move)
On every series of rounds, every player will play against any other with black and with white.
There will be 4 series. Every serie will have 10 rounds. Every player will play 32 games, 16 with white and 16 with black.
SMIRF Engine: Sorry to butt in, but if your program is even half well-structured, no new code introduction should affect any core functionality... or your core needs redesigning! :)
Zmenené užívateľom SMIRF Engine (2. októbra 2005, 01:45:31)
WhiteTower: You are wrong. Castling is a well defined process. To do it in a performant way (generating / executing) needs a matching environment and data structure. SMIRF is able to also support Fischer castlings in 8x8 and 10x8, also symmetrical castling like in Janus Chess already is supported. But the inverse castling of MBC does not match into those optimized structures. Remember, in SMIRF there is only ONE engine flexibly able to play a lot of 8x8 and 10x8 variants. If performance would be irrelevant, including new variants might be easy. But such is not the current challenge.
I actually argue for the SIMPLE solution, to play MBC the mirrored way, because that fits into SMIRF's structure. So the problem could easily be solved by changing the point of view. Otherwise you will have to define also new types of FEN and PGN, to make MBC games persistant.
Pythagoras:
You quote a version Smirf 1.17 beta.
Since the site of Smirf, the last version that I downloaded is the 1.1.1
Can you say to me how you obtained this version 1.1.7 ?
But you don't have to worry. You have the same! I just used as a version NOT this shown in the "about" box but that in the starting page that says: Ver. BC 117. My "about" says what your about says.....
Zmenené užívateľom SMIRF Engine (2. októbra 2005, 12:19:05)
jolat: because SMIRF consists of two parts (GUI + Engine) there are different version numbers for both. The version number of the Engine is displayed in the caption of the GUI, the version of the GUI could be found via Help -> About ...
Zmenené užívateľom Chicago Bulls (3. októbra 2005, 00:38:46)
Round 2 ZoG - SM1.17 = 1-0
SM0.59 - G.V = will follow tomorrow along with 3 round........
Me bye....
ZoG - SM1.17 = 1-0
This game came as a surprise to me partly because although at one moment Smirf 1.17 seemed it will take the win, it finally lost, but mainly because i had highly overestimated its strength and this game showed to me that Smirf has a long way to travel before it can become the way i have imagined it was..........
3 VERY IMPORTANT things:
1)Smirf once again (like in its game on the GC forum with Gothic Vortex) gave one of its major pieces for a combination of 2 minor pieces. Specifically it gave its Chancellor for a Rook and a Bishop. As Ed Trice said and i completely agree, this exchange is completely wrong if there are no immediate advantages. I definitely advice Reinhard to give a penalty for such an exchange, if there is no tactical trick in the horizon that gains immediate advantage.......
2)Smirf even after having 2 Rooks against a Rook and a Chancellor of ZoG, it evaluated the position as unclear or even at some moments as its advantage!!!!!!!!Not a really trustworthy evaluation......
3)The time control can be characterized as a rather rapid game or even blitz game, so as Reinhard has already said about Smirf, having problems with non-slow controls, this is definite "excuse"
for Smirf for answering the bad play after one point. But it's definitely no excuse for the above
2 things i mentioned........Slow or blitz, even thinking to give a C for a R+B without an immediate gain, but for stretegical reasons, is completely wrong.....And having an drawing evaluation in a game you have 2R versus R+C is again completely wrong.......
Pythagoras: I have tried it with the initial low cache setting ... the cache size you mentioned is not possible in 1.17, check it within the options menu.
Unfortunatelly i didn't managed to finish the 3 round, but this will be done tomorrow. I've played only 1 game: Smirf 0.59 - Gothic Vortex = 0-1 That was an easy win for Vortex.........
Round 2 ZoG - SM1.17 = 1-0
SM0.59 - G.V = 0-1
ME bye....
Table after the 2nd round of 40:
PLAYER |POINTS/GAMES
G.Vortex | 2.0/2.0
Me | 1.0/1.0
ZoG | 1.0/2.0
Smirf1.17| 0.0/2.0
Smirf0.59| 0.0/1.0
Pairings for Round 3:
SM1.19 - SM0.59 (There will be an update on Smirf 1.17 promoting to 1.19 version)
Me - ZoG
G.V bye......
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