Pythagoras: If you would annonce in advance that you will be online, then may be somebody would play with you. I think the best place to make such annoncements is on Gothic Chess Forum.

I don't think Fisher will play with Kasparov, not even Fisher Random Chess... Kasparov is younger and would easily win.

Pythagoras: Ed is there every
tuesday night at about 6pm EST. Like Andreas said, its best to post a time when you'll be on at the Forum for all to see!

Caissus: That I can't explain...but early bugs and crashes might have deterred some people from coming back until all is well.

andreas: I don't think Fisher will play with Kasparov, not even Fisher Random Chess... Kasparov is younger and would easily win.

Whaaaaaaat? Please say again because i didn't hear well. Easily? Oh NO! Not even with Fischer playing blindfold.......!

What is going on with GCLive? I tried 40 seconds before writing this message to connect but it keeps saying "Server failed".........?!?!?

If you check the Gothic chess forum you'll see Ed'd had to take GCL offline due to site instability problems.

Oh damn! When i try to connect then always something happens. Oh well, i hope it will be fixed soon.....

Pythagoras: I think Andreas is right : Fisher has no chances against Kasparow or the other strong players of the world.He is too old and has not played tournement games since a very long time...

Caissus: I agree but this would be the single most wanted and watched chess event in history. Look how well Korchnoi has played and he is in his 60's!

Caissus: if Ed was right about the money those guys wanted, there is probably no way the match will happen. Who would sponsor millions of dollars for such an obscure game?

Once a few bugs are knocked out, GC Live will be a well-trafficked place, and the gameplay is very good. I hope all are looking forward to it.

Caissus: Fisher has no chances against Kasparow

Well of course Fisher would not have a chance against Kasparov but what about Fischer?

Nasmichael: will the GClive server still need the updated java when it comes back online? I hate downloading updates!!

Any interest in testing a CRC program? if so I may upload it somewhere

Of course! I'm interested.......

While we like to hear of and discuss interesting games, including Gothic Chess, it has become apparent that there are a number of messages appearing promoting or discussing websites other than BrianKing. Unless the messages are to reveal something startlingly new about these other sites I would ask you refrain, they will be deleted anyway and persistent contravention will result in the poster being hidden.

Thank you for your co-operation.

WhisperzQ

Anencephal: How strong is it comparing to Smirf?

Anencephal: of course CRC programs are of interest !

[Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "????.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Fereshte 08"]
[Black "Smirf 1.1.3 Beta"]
[Result "1-0"]
[FEN "crkbaqnnbr/pppppppppp/10/10/10/10/PPPPPPPPPP/CRK
BAQNNBR w KQkq - 0 1"]

1.c3 e6 2.a3 d5 3.h3 h5
4.d3 Bg6 5.Nf3 Nh6 6.Ne5
Bh7 7.e3 i6 8.g4 f6 9.
Nf3 hxg4 10.hxg4 Cb6 11.
Ni3 j5 12.b4 j4 13.Ng2
Nxg4 14.Bf4 Nh6 15.Ac2
j3 16.ixj3 g5 17.Bg3 Nf5
18.Bh2 Rxj3 19.Ab3 Ad7
20.Kb2 Nd6 21.Rh1 Qg7
22.Bi3 Ab5 23.Bc2 Ne4
24.dxe4 Axf1 25.Rbxf1
dxe4 26.Nd4 Bg8 27.Bxe4
Ng6 28.Nf5 Qi5 29.Nh6 f5
30.Nxf5 a5 31.bxa5 Cb5
32.Nd4 Ce5 33.f3 Nf8 34.
Bh2 Cd7 35.Rd1 g4 36.Nc2
gxf3 37.Rxd7 Nxd7 38.
Bxf3 Rxj2 39.Cd1 Nc5 40.
Ac4 Qf8 41.Bf4 Ra8 42.
Nd4 Qg7 43.Kc1 Qf8 44.
Rf1 Qe7 45.Nf5 exf5 46.
Axg8 Qe8 47.Ad5 Qf8 48.
Ac4 Ra6 49.Bd5 Rj5 50.
Cb2 Qf6 51.Be5 Qh6 52.
Nf4 i5 53.Cb5 Rc6 54.
Bxc6 Qxc6 55.Cxc5 Rj6
56.Cxc6 Rxc6 57.Ad3 Ra6
58.Rj1 Bg5 59.Rg1 Kb8
60.Rxg5 Rxa5 61.Rg8+ Ka7
62.Bxc7 b6 63.Ac4 Kb7
64.Bxb6 Ra4 65.Rg7+ Ka8
66.Ad5+ Kb8 67.Rg8# 1-0

direct link:
http://home.ripway.com/2005-10/493246/chess/Fereshte08.zip

or
http://home.ripway.com/2005-10/493246/chess/index.html

it's a 553KB file, program runs with 64MB RAM and DX7 or better

Anencephal: Thank you to give us that download possibility! I loaded and started it. The first impression is, that here is a new sophisticated program with an own GUI, what is double work, which should be honoured! The first view detected a surprising amount of functionalities. Some remarks:

a) You seem to have implemented a different numbering scheme, why? I could supply you with a standard position generating subroutine.

b) Your program seems not yet absolutly stable. It crashes when answering to following:

[Event "Testgame 1m/move"]
[Site "ChessBox"]
[Date "????.??.??"]
[Round "1"]
[White "Smirf Beta"]
[Black "Fereshte 0.8"]
[Result "*"]
[Annotator "R.S."]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "nrakcqnrbb/pppppppppp/10/10/10/10/PPPPPPPPPP/NRA KCQNRBB w KQkq - 0 1"]

1. Nf3 {(11.03) +0.246} c6 2. i4 {(11.11)
+0.631} h5 3. ixh5 {(13.02+) +1.012} *

Reinhard.

P.S.: c) Your program uses a permanent brain (or at least 50% processor capacity). This should be off switchable when playing against another program at the same computer.

d) it could help to have any sound, when a move has been calculated.

SMIRF Engine:
Thanks for remarks. Writing a chess program is a heavy project , thanks to Smirf, Zillion and ChessV I have found many bugs in it and its
little and bigger brothers. Fereshte and the grand chess program are now stable when running without hashtable.
when using hashtable, I had crashes outside IDE with release version of them but they are not repeatable , it doesn't crash when I follow that line.

It's a strange program, sometimes plays good moves, another time misses a simple pawn fork :-)

sorry , programming is just a hobby for me, I was wasting processor power with unnecessary renders, a few lines solved it , you can also free it by opening load/save windows :-)

I liked to use the same numbering but couldn't guess the routine of smirf, many thanks if I can have it.

Anencephal: I have sent a C++ file to you here, but it is not keeping its formatting. We should communicate by email. Anyone who wants it could ask me for that CRC/Chess960 numbering scheme.

Reinhard.

P.S.: also have a look at http://www.chessbox.de/xfen_e.html or http://www.chessbox.de/beta.html

Pythagoras: Since 1975 no one has beaten him for his Championship;so I ,for one still consider Fischer World Champion!!!

tedbarber: "Since 1975 no one has beaten him for his Championship..." Since 1975, who has he beaten to retain his title? :) Is Alekhine still champion?

BuilderQ: Spassky in 1992. No Alekine died!!

tedbarber: Alekhine hasn't been defeated since his death, has he?

a) there is an only time-restricted beta of SMIRF at
http://www.chessbox.de/Compu/schachsmirf_e.html
b) you can download a reduced but always working Gothic Vortex Copper via
(a well known web address)
c) a free version of ChessV could be found via
http://sourceforge.net/projects/chessv/
d) a beta of the newcomer Fereshte has been seen at
http://home.ripway.com/2005-10/493246/chess/index.html

BuilderQ: I do not intend to continue this arguement Alekine is dead and Fischer is still alive;so it is not the same thing. My opinion is my opinion;and you will not change it. Since Kasparov got his "so=called"championship from Karpov,who never won it over the board because he was never able to win it that way against Fischer;so the Communist that controlled FIDE moved illegally to strip Fischer of a championship that they knew they could not stop him from sucessfully defending against an inferior player. That is why I say Fischer is still CHAMPION. As for Alekine;no dead man ever has any claim to any current championship. This is all I will say on this topic. I never said Kasparov was not an excellant player;just that since he never defeated the real world champion;he has no right to claim the title, Maybe he could have;maybe he couldn't. Unfortunately we probably will never know;since Bobby is now past being able to play like the chess genuis he once was.

tedbarber: I agree on most but you should not underestimate Kasparov saying him just excellent player.... Kasparov was one of the most dominating Chess-entities ever existed! Yet i think Fischer was at the exact same level of Kasparov showing a comparable genious.....I'll not speak about Capablanca but these 2 (Fis and Kasp) were the most amazing human Chess players this earth has seen.
Now they are both retired, i think the mighty Fruit 2.2.1 should be called their successor...

There just has been a live game, where SMIRF's problems to develop pieces' mobility have been shown:

[Event "Live test game 20 min + 15 sec"]
[Site "GC live"]
[Date "2005.11.05"]
[Time "22:21:13"]
[Round "A"]
[White "Gothic Inventor"]
[Black "Smirf Beta"]
[Result "1-0"]
[Annotator "RS"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "rnbqckabnr/pppppppppp/10/10/10/10/PPPPPPPPPP/RNB QCKABNR w KQkq - 0 1"]

1. c4 Nc6 {(11.16) -0.176} 2. Nh3 g6 {(11.14) -0.162} 3. Nc3 Bd4 {(12.01)
-0.262} 4. g4 Nh6 {(11.09) +0.004} 5. e3 Bxc3 {(12.14) +0.170} 6. dxc3 f5
{(12.12) +0.123} 7. Bd5 e6 {(14.00) +0.053} 8. g5 exd5 {(12.01=) +0.898} 9.
gxh6 dxc4 {(12.06) +0.777} 10. hxi7 Axi7 {(13.00) +0.629} 11. e4 h6 {(13.00)
+0.555} 12. exf5 gxf5 {(12.28) +0.178} 13. Cxe8+ Qxe8 {(12.01=) -0.266} 14. Ae2
Ne5 {(11.10) +0.432} 15. O-O Nd3 {(10.34) +0.391} 16. Bf4 d6 {(11.11) +0.469}
17. Qd2 Nxf4 {(12.01=) -0.203} 18. Axf4 O-O {(13.00) +0.078} 19. Rae1 Qd8
{(12.01) -0.037} 20. Ni5 Aj5 {(13.01=) -0.441} 21. Ag6+ Kj8 {(14.00) -0.371}
22. Rhg1 j6 {(13.00) -1.283} 23. Rg3 Qg8 {(12.27) -2.475} 24. Re7 jxi5 {(14.01)
-7.059} 25. Qe2 Ah3+ {(12.00) -41.21} 26. Rxh3 h5 {(03.25) -10.90} 27. Rj3+ Qj5
{(02.00?) -2.664} 28. Rxj5# 1-0

Vortex Copper can be downloaded directlty from this link:

http://www.GothicChess.com/vortex.zip

Kasparov was deconstructing Fischer's endgames when he was 13...but it's an unfair comparison. Also, FIDE may have been controlled by the Communists...but they were communists in name only, fascists in practice.

redsales: Right on.

Anyway, the only way we can get as close as possible to any comparison between them is to make them play each other according to software like ChessMasterSomeThousand, where, I think, chess personalities are programmed... I know, it's not anything conclusive, but I'd like to know what happens :)

For those who are interested, here is the last of a good series of articles on the best chess players. Links at the bottom go to the previous three articles.

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=2409

My personal observation is that Fischer was considered world champion for three years, but Morphy was considered world champion until his death 24 years after playing real chess. And one match in 33 years against a player not ranked in the top 100 is hardly considered adequate title defense. I might suggest being less defensive about it considering that only one chess genius shares your views.

[Link added (and later fixed) to reference WQ :]

WhisperQ: The link is slightly screwed :)

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=2409

Thad (+ White Tower): Thanks ... I checked the link out first to make sure it went somewhere but not again by clicking on it after i made it ... silly me! (BTW I have fixed it too :)

Thad: there seems a great event just about to be created - so I just have read at http://www.gothicchess.com/news.html.

SMIRF Engine:
Corrected link: Click me!

(You have inserted a dot after html in your link........)

Pythagoras: Thank you for that hint!

Kasparov looks very old for his age. Ah, the burdens of genius! I still can't see the logic in anyone sponsoring a relatively unknown game like Gothic Chess, as much as I liked the game itself. I'd love to see either match, moreso the Karpov one, because FRC is closer to their specialties.

Caissus: 10 minutes and 12 second delay. that makes a difference. I too am having trouble finding gothic opponents.

redsales: People can be led to fresh water at anytime. FRC is not known to everyone, but it only takes one good exhibition to reveal the powers of new games. Every new idea is unknown until one good exposure throws some light onto it.

Nasmichael: Any well designed improvement could be noticed by detecting an initial witch hunting by traditionalists against it. Regarding that Chess960 (FRC) and 10x8 Chess (CRC, GC) will have a very promising future.

SMIRF Engine: But what if the computing power available today and later will bring the same faults to them that standard chess now has? Or is that a very distant future? :)

WhiteTower: As for Chess960 / FRC there will be necessary 960 * 400 years to have the same opening knowledge extension, supposed the favored starting array will be exchanged all 400 years. For CRC it will last another 25 times longer.

SMIRF Engine: . . . and GC has a long future also, given the fact that most things that people "know" about the game are thwarted by a sacrifice.

SMIRF Engine: I find these assertions of it taking lots of years ridiculous! FRC has 960 different opening positions, right? Regular Chess has 1. Three orders of magnitude. I fail to see why a computer couldn't just study all 960 different openings and get prepared for all of them. Is that hard to imagine? When the gigs become teras and when understanding how to program these types of games becomes better and more efficiently improved, these games will be just as well mastered as regular Chess is nowadays. It should certainly happen within ten years at the lastest.

And I'm just talking about the brute force methods. They start making the computer work parallelly or even emulate how people think and add brute force to it and it could be done even faster.

Walter Montego: Exactly my line of thought as well. I did think that Reinhard was being a bit too "mathematical" with his assertions, without applying some further factors in the process :)