When I heard about this game, I found This Site which also went through the rules, so I figure I would share it with all of you!

Wow Fencer, you were not kidding about the boards being a little big. I feel sorry for those WebTV people (or anyone with small screens) - even on my big monitor at work which usually maked everything look small, this board is HUGH! :-)

I will make a smaller board soon :-)

So to win is to be last to move. correct? (Does not matter how many pieces are captured)

So it is an disadvantage to quickly move your pieces to the other side of the board since they get "stuck".

Correct.

http://brainking.com/game/ShowGame?g=447364

In my game with Cerebro from this position, BK won't allow me to make the mandatory capture. Instead, it forces me to make the move e2-d2.

Not a bug - You can't jump backwards on your first jump.

If it's part of a multiply jump, your 2nd jump on can be backwards, but the first must be forward or sidways.

I couldnt go back to where i previously was, but my oponent could multiple time.
is there something wrong?
Me white, she was black

When you're on the last row, you can't move that pieces except to jump sideways (and then possibly more jumps after that - including backwards). On any other row you can move sideways or forwards.

I think what Stevie is saying is it would not let him move his last move E4-D4 - forcing him to the last row to end the game

thanks BBW

thats right, it was the same for a few moves.
had to go new directions each time. This is a good thing because can reduce the chance of draws, but only if both players have same rule.

It has happened in other games of this also.
But assumed was both players, but this time we were talking about the game because was her first game, so she made me aware of Niki being able to do it.

Nothing to do with last line Kevin, that part of it is written in the rules anyway

Is the ratings working right does anyone know... I started of in this game 4-0 and got a rating of 1966, I won 5 more games and now I'm 9-0 and it never changed the whole time and some of the players I beet were rated in the 14teens

If the players you're playing have close to the same ratings as each other, your rating very possibly could not change, considering a provisional rating is simply calculated by averageing your opponent's ratings (+400 for a win, -400 for a loss and no change for a draw). So even if your opponent's rating is very close to the current average of your opponent's ratings, it very possibly could not change your rating even by 1.

And actually how ratings work, especially before you get an established ratings, sometimes a win against a lower ranked player will make your rating go down (Mathimaticly) - but the system here is set up to not let your rating go down with a win.

Plus your rating may have went up. For example, the first time it might have been 1966.1, after the next win it might have been 1966.35, etc... etc...

So it is very possible that your rating will not move - and act very strange until you start getting many more games to get an established rating. :-)

Thanks for the info.

Any ideas about how to improve this game?
Seems very unbalanced to me... but the statistics here doesn't say that, I know... but the advanced players surely know what I'm refering... ;-)

I'd say the statistic says nothing. It's a statistic from many "I'd like to try this one too" games. After I started to play alquerque I thought that it's an advantage to play Black. Definitely not! I suppose we all agree that Black can be glad if he/she can draw...

Why would there be a draw in this game? Maybe I'm just not thinking right now..

You can have a draw if both players have two or more pieces on their own side and just keep going back and forth side to side

Yea, once I figured out that the true object of the game was to be the last one able to move, and not be the one who captures the most pieces - it took away from the game and personally do not find the game of Alquerque too much fun

but how can they go back and forth??? Don't the rules say that once in the last row, they can only move horizontally if there is a jump???

"If a pawn reaches the opposite side of the board (the last row), it cannot make any more moves and must stay there to the end of a game (unless it can jump, see next sections)"

i went and copied and pasted... That's why I don't think there is any "natural" draw... only an agreement between 2 people who don't want to see the game to completion..

I'm talking about the second to last row, if you have two pieces left you can move a space, then move the other one a space, then you can move the first one right back to where it just was and keep doing that.

The rules also say you cannot move to a space previously occupied ????? so eventually they will reach the end of that 2nd row, and will HAVE to move into the final row

If you have 2 pieces on the next to last row - lets say one on the left side, one of the right side.

Move the left side piece one space to right.

Then move the right side piece one space to the left

Then move the left side piece back to the left side

Then move the right side piece back to the right side

(repeat over and over and over) - Draw

Oh, I see... you are saying if you have TWO pieces left... hmm.. okay..

LOL... i figured it out at the same time you were typing BBW.. thanks

I personally like Alquerque a lot. I didn't think I would, because it seemed so much like checkers, and I don't care for checkers. I'm looking forward to getting better at this game!

Rod I don't want to be a "pleasure spoil" but how can you improve your skills in a game that you don't have a chance if you play a certain color?
The game its not balanced but surely between us can change slightly the rules to improve the game thats what i was meaning...
Until now my conclusion is maybe with a different set of pieces, maybe remove the 2 most advance on the board, to have an equivalent set to checkers, id est with 2 complete rows - 8 pieces. But now i'm thinking that, I don't have how to test it... :-(

<Ferjo: what about first move d2->c3
who wants to try it with me?

HOME fellowship needs three more players to join the team tournement! Anyone?!

mickez: we can try it but i don't think its the solution... Hmmmmm.
But its a suggestion any others, Alquerque community?
I wonder if we can convince Fencer to change a little bit the rules to make this game interesting...

There are actually two sets of rules for the game. And the varient version of the rules are used here. The orinal rules (Alfonso Rules) allowed backwards jumping where as the newer rules (Bell Rules) prohibit this.

"Alfonso" Rules

Before starting, the pieces (12 black and 12 white) are placed as shown in figure 2. The game is played in turns, with one player taking white and the other black.

* A piece can move from its point to any adjacent point as long as that point is empty.

* A piece can jump over an opposing piece and remove it from the game, if that opposing piece is adjacent and the point beyond it is empty.

* Multiple capturing jumps are permitted, and indeed compulsory if possible.

* If a capture is possible it must be made, or else the piece is forfeited (also known as being huffed).

The idea of the game is to eliminate the opponent's pieces.
[edit]

"Bell" Rules

This set of rules was developed by RC Bell in his book Board and Table Games of Many Civilizations, and were presented alongside an argument that the Alfonso rules weren't detailed enough to be able to play the game.

His rules are an extension to the Alfonso rules, they are that:

* A piece cannot move backwards
* No piece can return to a point where it has been before.
* Once a piece has reached the final line it can only move while capturing opponent pieces.
* The game has been won when either:

1. The opponent has lost all of his pieces
2. None of the opponents pieces are able to move.

Bell also includes a scoring system for rating games.

I can see quite often open invitations to alquerque by the strong players. They offer only games, where they play White. This is what I'd call "the real sportsmanship". :-)

Hi Bad Bishop. I think that your previous message was for me. I have an open invitation of alquerque, this time playing white. Since now, played 39 games of alquerque. Just 9 of them played with white. 3 of them being both white and black, and the other 27 played with black. And I still have a good rating in this game. Now I want to try some new tactics with white.

So Didn´t get your point, if the previous message was for me. Besides that, my invitation was only for players with more than 1800, so this can give an interesesting game for both players. I´ve invited you twice for playing alquerque. One of them we played both white and black. The other you played white. So why are you complaining?

And people are free to accept, or not, my invitation...

Hi Andre, sure I wrote this after I saw your invitation yesterday. But I didn't mentioned it if I didn't saw two or three invitations (to play Black) from (I think) Nuno Miguel in the past days. Don't take it personally, I really don't mean it so. I don't complain, I'm only laughing about something what I'd call "a bait". :-) (In my humble opinion somebody who played the game several times and don't think it has even chances for both players should offer only the two games matches.) And you are of course right that nobody is forced to accept.

Sorry, if I offended you, I don't wanted to.

Well Bishop, i don't really know what is your problem.
I had a game invitation for players up to 1900 points, that means it was for the best players. No one is forced to accept game invitations and everybody can put their own conditions, like colour, time, etc...
I see all the time, invitations to line games, like pente, five in line, spider line, etc. only for playing white...
And for the most unbalanced games that i know in here (horde chess and marajah chess) you ONLY see invitations to play with ONE of the colours.
But if someone puts two invitations to play black and white, what will you choose? both? or just the one that's better for you?
just to put an end to this conversation i say to you, when i make personal invitations i send ALWAYS 2 (black and white) in every game variation.
By the way , i saw your games and you played 3/5 of it with white pieces...

Have you got anything against the portuguese people? You´re always attacking them and you've been accused of racism a few days ago in one of this lists...

Nightstorm:
I think the alfonso rules are better to balanced the game between black and white pieces, if everyone agrees with that, we can ask Fencer to change it...

No, of course not, why for God's sake should I? Btw, I wouldn't say "I'm always attacking them".

I think the best way for the game is to always have the black player start the game first.

Nuno Miguel: I don't know or I don't know very well the games you mention (pente, spider lines, chess variant etc.), so I can't say anything about them. If I would, I'd most probably write something similar as here.

If somebody or better let's say, if you would put two invitations to alquerqe, for White and for Black, I'd of course pick the game as White, no doubt. :-) I can only repeat, that IMHO the best way to play this game is one two games match (NOT two games with switched colors).

Did I really played with 3:5 ratio? Funny, I'll check who invited whom (besides of tournaments). Btw, as I started to play alquerqe, I thought it's better to play with Black. Then I found the "unbeatable" c2-c3 opening...

About the Alfonso rules: I'm not really sure, but I think that without the Bell rules there could be much more draws. With them a draw is nearly impossible. Not with the c2-c3 opening (White has +2 pieces, why should he draw), so maybe only with the other openings if the situation is equal and the White don't want to attack.

Almost of the games have a better side, and I think to have this kind of restriction in the openings is bad for the game.
Like you said, you thought at the beggining that were better to play with black. maybe there is a solution to that opening... if not Fencer could change it to the original rules for example

We can play (many) unrated games to try to find some solution. After my second or third game I sat down with pen and paper and went through all openings and several moves -- I didn't find any defence (against proper play) and I'd really like to find it, because the damned opening is killing the game. (On the other hand, if we'd find one path to draw or win with Black against c2-c3, would it make the game equal?)

That's why i said to change it to the original rules...

Hm, but I'm affraid that as long as there is a forced jump -- and it has to be there, without forced capture the game (all variants of checkers) hasn't any sence -- the White will have a quite big advantage after c2-c3. Let's play (rather analyze together) a postal game without the Bell rules. Actually we can do it here all together, without really to play a game.

1. c2-c3 c4-c2
2. c1-c3 e3-c1
3. c3-e3

Until here are all moves (besides c2-c3) forced. What now? (Only "Alfonso rules", f**k the Bell :-))

Stevie2: Sure. :-)

But you are obviously not from Portugal, you are stating you are from GB. Will I be accused from racism againgst the Britons (or am I off topic and will be deleted again?) if I'll point to your finished games? There is a lot of resigns after about 4 moves. I'm quite sure it's only for fun and not to manipulate the ratings, correct? Dear Stevie2, if I'd see such "fair" behavior by the Czechs, by the Americans, by the Martians, I'd mention it -- and I presume nobody (maybe besides of the subjects) would accuse me to be a racist.

What if white isnt allowed to open with c2-c3 ?

(i just played my first game of alquerque .. had never heard of the game ... and i was surprised to find everyone in the tournament to start exactly the same :))