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 Animals

this is a board that talks about issues concerning animals...your own pets as well as animal rights,alerts,bills before congress that need our attention.This is a family board but as abuse cases may be posted it may not always be for the sensitive readers.Please be kind to each other,thanks!


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12. Eylül 2007, 03:55:31
anastasia 
Konu: I need your help PLEASE!!!

 Here in the city I live,they are getting ready to put a ban on pitbulls.You all know that I do not own one,I have GSD's.The point is tho that I don't think the breed should be the target..the numbnuts that FIGHT the dogs need to be dealt with! My friend and I are getting ready to submit a letter into our local paper protesting this act against pits. It will start with them and then what....Let's ban Dobes,and then Rotts,and then hey...how about GSD's because they are all vicious animals.And the lab next door looks a bit shady...ban them too!!People are ignorant about the pit breed.They are wonderful therapy dogs..HELEN KELLER OWNED ONE...A pit that was resuced from a freezer,almost dead now has 30 MILLION dollars worth of DRUG BUSTS to his name...One mother watched as her normally calm pit run full speed at her lil daughter and plowed into her,knocking the little girl roughly to the ground...ONLY TO SEE THE DOG TAKE A BITE FROM A RATTLESNAKE that was about to attack the baby.


 PLEASE,PLEASE,PLEASE...research this breed..get facts,stats and info on the dogs and help STOP the banning of the dogs (most "pitts" that are involved with attacks are not really pitts,they are mixed breeds) Pits outscore alot of other breeds on the ATTS.Pitts are know as a "nannydog" in England because of their devotion to children.FIGHTING pits are actaully not normally aggressive to humans..they are bred to be aggressive towards other dogs..A Pit in the ring that is aggressive to a human will be put down at once (not that I believe in fighting....but the point in that statement is that they are not bred to be human aggressive even in aweful circumstances like that)


 ANY DOG CAN AND WILL BITE IF THEY ARE THREATEND,TEASED,ABUSED,TAUNTED,


PLEASE help save this wonderful and misunderstood animal..even if you are not a fan of the dog...do it and yourself a favor and read all you can about it..I am not saying every pit is a freindly one,just like not every Lab,GSD,poodle,hounddog,etc,etc are going to run up and kiss you all over either..but they are not all the evil dogs that people think they are.


12. Eylül 2007, 04:07:29
The Col 
Konu: Re: I need your help PLEASE!!!
anastasia: They're banned here

Mar 24, 2007 04:30 AM
Peter Small
Courts Bureau

A judge has upheld the constitutionality of Ontario's controversial ban on pit bulls, despite a challenge by a Toronto dog owner.

Although evidence on the danger posed by pit bulls is inconclusive, the provincial Legislature had a "reasoned apprehension of harm" when it chose to target all such dogs, Justice Thea Herman said in her judgement, released yesterday.

The Superior Court judge ruled that the means the provincial government chose to protect the public were not disproportionate and therefore not unconstitutional, as had been argued last May by lawyer Clayton Ruby, on behalf of dog owner Catherine Cochrane.

"Dog ownership is not a right," Herman said.

In the absence of conclusive data, legislators are entitled to err on the side of safety, she said.

"There is no doubt that individuals in Ontario have been seriously injured by dogs that were identified as pit bulls."

However, Herman narrowed the province's wide definition of pit bulls. She ruled it unconstitutional to include dogs that are not Staffordshire bull terriers, American Staffordshire terriers or American pit bull terriers, or those substantially similar in appearance.

She also ruled it unconstitutional to declare a dog a pit bull on the basis of a document from a veterinarian, as this "offends trial fairness and the right to be presumed innocent."

Under the contested amendments to the Dog Owner's Liability Act, violators are subject to a maximum penalty of $10,000 and six months in jail.

In a news release, Ruby declared partial victory, but vowed to appeal.

"These are steps in the right direction, but they are not going far enough," Caroline Wawzonek, Ruby's co-counsel, told the Star.

But a spokesperson for Attorney General Michael Bryant stated that all but two out of 169 provisions in the amended legislation remained unaffected by the judge's decision.

Under the law, Ontarians can't newly acquire pit bulls. Existing owners must neuter their dogs and make sure they are leashed and muzzled in public. Offenders' pit bulls must be euthanized.

"People should continue to leash and muzzle their pit bulls; pit bulls are banned in Ontario, and that has been upheld by the Ontario Superior Court," Bryant told reporters.

14. Eylül 2007, 01:53:19
Jason 
Konu: Ontarians can't newly acquire pit bulls. Existing owners must neuter their dogs and make sure they are leashed and muzzled in public. Offenders' pit bulls must be euthanized.
Jim Dandy: which dog is banned ? , i did think it was the american pit bull , but in your post it says not , now im confused .

14. Eylül 2007, 02:07:15
The Col 
Konu: Re: Ontarians can't newly acquire pit bulls. Existing owners must neuter their dogs and make sure they are leashed and muzzled in public. Offenders' pit bulls must be euthanized.
Jason: My take,is that it covers any variation of pit bull.

14. Eylül 2007, 02:29:37
Jason 
Konu: Re: Ontarians can't newly acquire pit bulls. Existing owners must neuter their dogs and make sure they are leashed and muzzled in public. Offenders' pit bulls must be euthanized.
Jim Dandy: wow , that would be a shame as there seems quite a few pit bull types of breeds

14. Eylül 2007, 03:04:01
anastasia 
Konu: Re: Ontarians can't newly acquire pit bulls. Existing owners must neuter their dogs and make sure they are leashed and muzzled in public. Offenders' pit bulls must be euthanized.
anastasia (14. Eylül 2007, 03:04:35) tarafından düzenlendi

Jason: Who else besides Tuesday took that test?? It will show how much people really cannot identifly the "true APBT" The city I live near also has clumped together the pitbull/pitbull type into one lump...I don't understand how in 2007 we can still have witch hunts.



 I was once biten by a kid...should we ban them too???


14. Eylül 2007, 03:13:17
Jason 
Konu: Re: Ontarians can't newly acquire pit bulls. Existing owners must neuter their dogs and make sure they are leashed and muzzled in public. Offenders' pit bulls must be euthanized.
anastasia: as far as i understand here in the uk APBT have been one of four breeds banned since 1991
but as the test shows alot look alike and people are still having them taken away in this country even now .

14. Eylül 2007, 03:19:06
anastasia 
Konu: Re: Ontarians can't newly acquire pit bulls. Existing owners must neuter their dogs and make sure they are leashed and muzzled in public. Offenders' pit bulls must be euthanized.

Jason: I just really can not understand why in this decade we would decide to go after the dog as a whole and not the people fighting them and abusing them.


 Once,when I was working at the humane hospital...a Rott came in...well,the body of a Rott came in..if I remember corectly he was like 50 pounds or something like that..had been abused,you could tell,and I don't mean just being starved to death.The guy was fined $500.00 and told he was never allowed to own another dog...huh!!??!! THAT was his punishment!!!!


14. Eylül 2007, 03:31:40
The Col 
Konu: Re: Ontarians can't newly acquire pit bulls. Existing owners must neuter their dogs and make sure they are leashed and muzzled in public. Offenders' pit bulls must be euthanized.
anastasia: Pedophiles have been known to escape with less punishment,but I understand your point.

14. Eylül 2007, 12:08:35
Jason 
Konu: Re: Ontarians can't newly acquire pit bulls. Existing owners must neuter their dogs and make sure they are leashed and muzzled in public. Offenders' pit bulls must be euthanized.
anastasia: well here they was banned because of the power they have in thier bite which as i can gather is much worse than a rotty or any other powerfull dog , i dont know any stats but i have seen time and time again (in the news ) attacks on people witrh this type of breed and breeds that have been crossed very closely so as to avoid the law . we have people on our estates that walk round with them as some sort of status thing (they know thier dog will fight it out with any other dog )
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2499649.stm
this story is from last new years day i believe
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/6229715.stm

14. Eylül 2007, 14:39:24
Ewe 
Konu: Re: Ontarians can't newly acquire pit bulls. Existing owners must neuter their dogs and make sure they are leashed and muzzled in public. Offenders' pit bulls must be euthanized.
anastasia: I understand what you are saying, but as Jason has just mentioned. No its not the dogs fault its the BREEDERS FAULT!

Pit Bulls can live peacefully with other dogs and animals. However,
the Pit Bull has historically been bred to take down large animals.
Early and continual socialization can help a Pit Bull be more animal
friendly. Genetics, however, play an important role in how the dog will
respond to other dogs and animals.


A Pit Bull that will fight another dog if unattended is a normal Pit
Bull. Even if a Pit Bull does not start the fight, it has the potential
to seriously injure or kill a dog once in the fight.


The Pit Bull has been bred to not back down and withstand pain until
the goal is met. This quality does not carry true in all Pit Bulls, but
it is safe to assume it is a potential in any Pit Bull in order to
avoid unnecessary problems.

Pit Bulls have a late maturity, and a Pit Bull that was dog
friendly at 7 months old may suddenly show signs of intolerance of
unfamiliar dogs around two years old. Spaying and neutering the dog may
help to prevent "turning on" the genetic urge to fight another dog.


All dog fights are preventable, however. Socialize a Pit Bull slowly
with new dogs, and never let them play unattended. Remove items such as
toys and food bowls to avoid stress.



Pit Bulls can live happily with other pets; if not left unattended.
Even the "best of friends" can fight, and the outcome may be tragic.
This can be true for dogs that have been together for years. Often,
after the first serious fight, relations between the dogs are never the
same.



Keeping that first fight from happening is a great way to ensure
peaceful relations for the long run. If there is a multiple-dog
household, it is important to separate the dogs when there is no one
home.


Many people use crates for short times, put dogs into separate rooms,
use kennels, or have outdoor areas set up for separation that are safe
and secure. Pit Bulls can get along wonderfully with animals like cats,
rabbits, and ferrets, but for safety's sake, never leave them alone
together.

 

15. Eylül 2007, 02:51:21
anastasia 
Konu: Re: Ontarians can't newly acquire pit bulls. Existing owners must neuter their dogs and make sure they are leashed and muzzled in public. Offenders' pit bulls must be euthanized.

Ewe: That was a good article that you posted...and it applies to ALL dogs..NOT just Pits.A dog,is a dog,is a dog.They are ALL animals,they are ALL capible (even poodles) of fighting,biting (I think the worst bites I have gotten were those darned ankle biters,lol....weinerdogs LOVED getting me)


 My GSD's are also bred to withstand pain and not back down until the job is done..I have no doubt in my mind that Damien would die to save me.He is a trained protection dog and THAT is what he is trained for.He comes from sound and stable breeding and a bloodline that was bred FOR the stability.


 The Dalmatian that is my profile pic...we had $100,000 worth of insurance on HIM because of how aggressive he was.He didn't care who or what you were..he WOULD attack you,and attack you to kill you,unprovoked.We knew this and we took precautions to NOT allow this to happen..we were RESPONSIBLE DOG OWNERS that didn't allow the dog to RUN AROUND THE NIEGHBORHOOD,or let strangers aproach him (although he LOVED his vet...go figure that one out,LMAO!!) He was very badly bred (I'm sure inbred without a care to the dogs themselves...their in lies the HUGH difference between a good breeder that keeps bloodlines seperate,and will NOT breed an unsound dog and a backyard..oh he's an ACK bloodline breeder) and he wasn't well socialized when we got him.


 The comment about pits wanting to fight other dogs is dead on target..THAT is why you must be responsible about owning them.It is important to seperate ANY dogs when they are unsupervised..people get on each others nerves..so do dogs..we just don't usually fight it out like they do (unless your my nieghbors on either side of me...then ya fight with each other )


 I would never EVER leave ANY dog alone with a kid either..they again...THEY ARE DOGS!! To hold an ENTIRE breed responsible is ridiculious.The BREEDERS and THE OWNERS MUST BE HELD RESPONSIBLE...Not only do laws NEED to be in place for the owners the fight and abuse them but for the breeders that run these mills or just keep pumpin out the pups strictly for fighting.But the thing is...ok..so they can't get a pit in the city without bringing alot of attention to themselves..so they will bring a dobe....that goes on for awhile and then what...ban them too?? so they bring in a Mastiff...so we ban them too....see how this snowballs?? THAT is why you must PUNISH the DEED NOT THE BREED.


 Please take the time to read the links I have posted.


http://www.pitbulllovers.com/pitbulls-therapy-dogs-kentucky.html


http://www.workingpitbull.com/


http://www.forpitssake.org/


http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/pospress.html


15. Eylül 2007, 04:02:02
The Col 
Konu: Re: Ontarians can't newly acquire pit bulls. Existing owners must neuter their dogs and make sure they are leashed and muzzled in public. Offenders' pit bulls must be euthanized.
anastasia: The problem(as I see it) is that you are in the minority of owners who responsibly supervise and care for your aggressive dogs.Many buy them for insincere purposes(much like the gun debate) and it paints the responsible owners with the same brush.I guess they figured our streets would be safer if they only allowed poodles and other less aggressive dogs to be allowed.

15. Eylül 2007, 12:46:06
Ewe 
Konu: Re: Ontarians can't newly acquire pit bulls. Existing owners must neuter their dogs and make sure they are leashed and muzzled in public. Offenders' pit bulls must be euthanized.
Jim Dandy: Thanks, yes & I think you have just echoed my thoughts with your last post too. If the breed is banned then it cant get into the wrong hands, of irrisponsible owners, and therefore those dogs wouldnt have to be destroyed.


The problems dont just lie with any particular breed, but with the fact that absolutely anyone can own any dog (or absolutely any animal for that matter) without having any prior knowledge of how to care for them etc.

15. Eylül 2007, 14:46:40
anastasia 
Konu: Re: Ontarians can't newly acquire pit bulls. Existing owners must neuter their dogs and make sure they are leashed and muzzled in public. Offenders' pit bulls must be euthanized.

Ewe: The problems dont just lie with any particular breed, but with the fact that absolutely anyone can own any dog (or absolutely any animal for that matter) without having any prior knowledge of how to care for them etc.


 THAT was perfectly said!!!!  And I agree totally with that...and,believe it or not..I CAN and DO see your side of this aguement I just want you to see mine to..as BEING a responsible dog owner,WITH 2 dogs that are already on some "to be watched lists" I'm sure you can see where this would hit home with me.But the bottom line is...If it isn't a pit..then it WILL be another breed...PERIOD..these are some sick people that we are talking about here.I mean,really...if you can do that to an animal then what might you be capible with a human?? Not only should BREEDING laws be put in place and REGULATED but people should also be educated about the breed (s) that they own.


 Here is a good for instance for you...our neighborhs that live behind us have a beautiful yellow lab..a bit on the chubby side,but I am no thin mint either,lol.The problem IS...if you know anything about the breed you know they are very social,very loving,very family oriented dogs...yes?? yes. They are also very high energy dogs that like to get out there and work,and run,and play and see and do and get into all kinds of fun doggy stuff,lol. Now...what if this wonderful creature was owned by very nice people BUT they never walked the dog..it only had 1 toy to play with and keep it busy.THEIR idea of spending time with him was opening up the door to the back yard,picking that ball up,throwing it,and while the dog was happily retrieveing it..they go back inside.The dog IS allowed in the house (when they remember him) BUT when it is in,it is kept in the crate.The dog is caught in this viciuos cycle now.He SHOULD be (by the breed he is) a freindly dog,BUT because he has so much pent up energy,not enough mental,physical,or sensory stimultion,he is becoming aggressive.I have gone over and worked with him and you can SEE he wants to learn,and please his people,but....so,Yes,people SHOULD have to become educated and I think A MANDATORY 6 weeks obidiance course.


 Oh...that is a nice dream I have huh,lol.


15. Eylül 2007, 19:43:23
Ewe 
Konu: Re: Ontarians can't newly acquire pit bulls. Existing owners must neuter their dogs and make sure they are leashed and muzzled in public. Offenders' pit bulls must be euthanized.
anastasia: yes I do honestly understand what you are saying, and I agree with most of what you have said.
Im on the same side as you with most of the issues raised but I also see & fully understand the reasons why certain dog breeds are deemed dangerous & are banned.

16. Eylül 2007, 02:26:10
anastasia 
Konu: Re: Ontarians can't newly acquire pit bulls. Existing owners must neuter their dogs and make sure they are leashed and muzzled in public. Offenders' pit bulls must be euthanized.
Ewe: should we terminate every last pit so that none exsist in the world anymore?? Did you read any of the links I posted?? Should we ban and kill these dogs as well?? BTW....ya know I still luv ya,right,lol...I think you are an AWESOME person to debate with

16. Eylül 2007, 21:21:47
Ewe 
Konu: Re: Ontarians can't newly acquire pit bulls. Existing owners must neuter their dogs and make sure they are leashed and muzzled in public. Offenders' pit bulls must be euthanized.
Ewe (16. Eylül 2007, 21:23:59) tarafından düzenlendi
anastasia: I think its so terribly sad if ANY dog has to be destroyed if its fit & well. There are only certain exceptions when a termination is justified.
My argument is they shouldnt be bred any more if there is a problem with that breed. To continue to breed means even more animals will suffer in the long term.
I dont think the remaining dogs of the pitbull breed should be killed but I do think the breeding should be stopped & a ban of ownership put into place.

Yes I love you too! This is a healthy & amicable discussion. I know you are a very responsible and loving dog owner, wish there were more like you (infact all)!!

(just editing my awful spelling lol)

15. Eylül 2007, 14:52:00
anastasia 
Konu: Re: Ontarians can't newly acquire pit bulls. Existing owners must neuter their dogs and make sure they are leashed and muzzled in public. Offenders' pit bulls must be euthanized.
Jim Dandy: I do not believe that I AM in the minority..I think the problem is..you NEVER hear about the good side of the breed..( that is why I REALLY hope you guys will take the time to read some of the links I posted).only the bad when something happens.Over the summer...my tv was flooded with stories of parents forgetting their kids in the car,kids drowning in the pools...would it be fair to say that responsible parents are the minority since all I had been hearing are the bad stories?? no.The media only shows one side of the story..because the pitbull laying lazily on the couch with the family,or playing in the wading pool just doesn't make for good news.

15. Eylül 2007, 19:31:27
The Col 
Konu: Re: Ontarians can't newly acquire pit bulls. Existing owners must neuter their dogs and make sure they are leashed and muzzled in public. Offenders' pit bulls must be euthanized.
anastasia: Well,maybe part of the problem lies in the type of owner attracted to owning a pitbull.Corvette buyers don't tend to drive 55,get my drift?
I would be ignorant to think that there aren't a very large percentage of pitbulls that are very well tempered and trustworthy,but politicians aren't concerned with that.They see a breed that is usually the one involved if ever an attack occurs,imagine the fallout if they do nothing and someone is killed.It is the safe way to just outlaw the breed.I fully understand your perspective and love of pitbulls,but I also understand the thinking process that goes nto these types of decisions.

15. Eylül 2007, 19:49:57
The Col 
Konu: Re: Ontarians can't newly acquire pit bulls. Existing owners must neuter their dogs and make sure they are leashed and muzzled in public. Offenders' pit bulls must be euthanized.
Tuesday: It sadly becomes a self fulfilling prophacy.Pitbulls get a rep for being violent,so violent people start to buy them,and the well intentioned owners pay the price.

16. Eylül 2007, 02:20:18
anastasia 
Konu: Re: Ontarians can't newly acquire pit bulls. Existing owners must neuter their dogs and make sure they are leashed and muzzled in public. Offenders' pit bulls must be euthanized.
Jim Dandy:

15. Eylül 2007, 12:52:17
Ewe 
Konu: Re: Ontarians can't newly acquire pit bulls. Existing owners must neuter their dogs and make sure they are leashed and muzzled in public. Offenders' pit bulls must be euthanized.
anastasia: Yes I agree with the fact dogs are dogs, but not all dogs are equal....Id stand much more of a chance fighting a miniture poodle off than I would a doberman! I think thats the difference.

As I said I totally agree with you the responsibilities lie with breeders and owners.

Very good discussion aswell 

13. Eylül 2007, 03:14:26
anastasia 
Konu: Re: I need your help PLEASE!!!
Tuesday: I'm not sure about the exsiting pits in the city....they may be grandfatherd or they may be forced to rehome or put them down.You should not be skittish around a dog just because it is a pit..I am going to find a website and they have a test on there to see if you can identify the true pitbull...I have been around dogs for years and years.....worked at animal hospitals and humane depts..train with them and it took me 3 try to identify the TRUE pitbull.

12. Eylül 2007, 22:03:21
Gemina 
Konu: Re: I need your help PLEASE!!!
anastasia: You know how I feel about animals and I have had to defend my choice in Prince since I got him. Oh heavens no not a rottweiler and he is as sweet as they come. :) I agree some are not friendlybut I don't think that justifies a ban

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