Artful Dodger: No.... You didn't read THIS part...

"In fact the teen pregnancy rate for 2009 (of 38,259 girls aged 18 or younger in England and Wales) was estimated to be the lowest since the early 1980s"

>>>>>>>>>>>

"And just in case you need an extra clue, from 2008 to 2009 is a "short run pregnancy rate....""

Yes, but [[I'll repeat so you don't miss it this time]] .... from the early 80's isn't.

Just accept, your guy.. messed up. Maybe one of those actually doing the work for him (as it seems is the way with him) screwed up and he lazily didn't check.

... which seems to a common factor in conservative circles.

What gets me is this crazy Christian notion that denies the bilogical mechanics of humans. N' to turn the baby making system into a moral thing.

It also ignores some common known data about how our diets have change the date girls become young ladies.... weight matters!!

Well. I'll go by the figures Dan. Teenage pegnancy has decreased.

"The Labour party did have targets and to meet these a dedicated teenage pregnancy co-ordinator (TPC) was allocated to health regions. The figures for 2009 show teen pregnancy reducing in England and Wales as the dedicated support for teens throughout the country seemed to be taking effect.

In fact the teen pregnancy rate for 2009 (of 38,259 girls aged 18 or younger in England and Wales) was estimated to be the lowest since the early 1980s.

Unfortunately the effects of the change of government on teen pregnancy can't be seen as the Office for National Statistics (ONS) teen pregnancy rates are two years out of date. We do know that the number of TPCs is reducing as the rearrangements in the health service take place, as Rachel Williams discovers :

TPCs have been cut in just over a third of areas – including several where conception rates among under-18s are very high.

Further research from Rachel Williams shows that of the 150 councils surveyed for the piece, 71 still have a TPC or equivalent (3 councils had no TPC before). Of the 76 councils loosing their TPC, 61 councils will see the loss this year and in 15 councils the loss has already happened.

We can only wait to see what the ONS report in the future about teenage pregnancy rates.

Other interesting facts include:

• The number of conceptions to women aged under 18 was 38,259 in 2009 compared with 41,361 in 2008, a decline of 7.5%
• Nearly half (48.8%) of conceptions to women aged under 18 in 2009 led to a legal abortion
• The number of conceptions to girls aged under 16 was 7,158 in 2009, compared with 7,586 in 2008 (a decrease of 5.6%)
• Three-fifths (59.8%) of conceptions to girls aged under 16 in 2009 led to a legal abortion.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From a reliable source!!


But keep going, ya might find the truth for once. Then old lies made by men who the pill made feel less of a man will fade from your clouded eyes.

"....talk about encouraging promiscuousness"

When no contraception was around for 'teens' there was more child pregnancies, no sex education.. more child pregnancies.

Just as the Australian Government found out. Their program is similar and had reduced child pregnancies as well.

So Liberal policies of providing sex education and contraception have reduced such levels.

We could go back to the old conservative method of hiding the pregnant teens in special homes.

But that didn't work.

We could go back to the old conservative method of not talking about sex and leave young adults uneducated.

That still doesn't work.

Artful Dodger: Then.. it is fair to say it isn't a Christian value.

But would it fair (as you seem to avoid talking about) that anti gayness is a Christian (or fairer to say right wing conservative Christian) value. And the right wing Christian element is seeking to force on everyone else in the USA?

Or as described by Islam.... people of the book, not true Christians!!

Artful Dodger: I think you'll find that the idea of obeying your government is much, MUCH older than Christianity.

"Being a good citizen is a Christian principle. So is honesty."

Sorry, but so it is in most (except cults like Scientology) religions.

"Forcing your religion on others is one thing. "

Like with Gay Marriage rights and Abortion. How certain Christian bodies go about saying they can make gay people straight, and using their anti gay feelings to cloud laws such as Gays being in the US armed forces.

... Because the Bible says being Gay is wrong.. even though the context (rape, temple sex, etc) is different and therefore a false statement.

Bwild: That's why in the UK there is a standard charge for prescriptions. One rate. If it's just aspirin/paracetamol... get them over the counter for pennies. In my experience, most pharmacists will tell you if a medicine can be bought over the counter for cheaper.

"HOSPITALS
they gouge the insurance companies
they gouge the patients
they gouge the government
they gouge the doctors"

And everyone takes their cut. Inflated prices mean inflated profit margins.

Shareholders and share prices rule!!

Artful Dodger: One case..

"Nearly two-thirds of personal bankruptcies in the US are directly caused by medical bills."

More than one, unless you cannot count.

"I know many people that didn't have to pay a dime because they didn't have the money. But they still got the treatment."

Millions of people here in the UK get that.. Unless, they have a private insurance scheme. Then they have to declare that to the NHS GP so they can bill them.

"YOu are REQUIRED to purchase your own insurance. If you can't afford it, you will go on the Govt plan. People will be required to buy insurance - that's the problem."

So the drain on federal income goes down. Here in the UK anyone earning over £50k is being told they will get less child benefit, over £60K they will lose it totally. It'll save around £700 million a year.

"Jesus never said that the government should take care of people. And not everyone believes in Jesus anyway. Besides, there's this little inconvenient thing called separation of church and state."

OK..... Now, honestly.. Can you see an atheist Republican candidate who is pro gay marriage and pro choice getting nominated? Which publication is used as a justification for being against gay marriage and abortion.... even though people using said publication are often for the use of the likes of Cluster Bombs.

BE REAL... there is no real separation. It is a BIG lie.

Rose Ann DeMoro
guardian.co.uk, Thursday 26 January 2012 19.14 GMT
Article history

Skier Sarah Burke
After Canada's freestyle skiing star Sarah Burke was gravely injured in an accident while training in Utah, her husband was forced to launch a website asking for donations to cover the medical bills incurred before she died.

Chances are you've probably never heard of Amelia Rivera, a three year-old from New Jersey. Chances are better you have heard of 29-year-old Canadian, Sarah Burke, one of the best freestyle skiers in the world.

Burke and Rivera don't have a lot in common, but tragically, their families do. Both have been borne the scars of a callous and broken US healthcare system – which, apparently, brings a gleam to the eyes of those seeking to promote privatization in their overhaul of the NHS in the UK

For those who missed the story, Burke, the six-time X Games gold medalist, was training in Park City Utah, 20 January, when she crashed and suffered major brain trauma. Flown to a prestigious hospital in Salt Lake City, Burke spent nine days in neuro-critical care before, sadly, she died.

As if the grief of her death was not enough, Burke's husband had to start a website to ask for donations to help pay the massive medical bill, estimates ranging as high as $550,000.

In a column in the Calgary Herald aptly titled "Sorry for your loss, here's your bill", columnist Robert Remington noted the dismay of Canadians at the healthcare mess to their south, where patients routinely receive hospitals bills "big enough to choke a horse". Insurance companies may negotiate it down, but for individuals without insurance, or have poor coverage, the outcome can be devastating. Nearly two-thirds of personal bankruptcies in the US are directly caused by medical bills.

Healthcare costs for US families have more than doubled in the past nine years. In 2010, health insurance premiums gobbled up 20% or more of median income for 62% of US residents under age 65, the age when the federally funded, guaranteed coverage of Medicare kicks in....

...Routine denial of needed medical treatment is a curse that pervades the profit-focused private insurance system in the US. In California, the only state that makes such data public, the seven largest private insurers rejected 26% of claims in 2010. Typically, the rejections came from payment disputes between the insurers and providers, such as doctors and hospitals, but often that resulted in patients and families getting stuck with massive bills in a system that does little to control costs.

While the US spends far more on healthcare than any other nation, it continues to slide in barometers of quality and access to care. A Commonwealth Fund study in November found that sick adult patients in the US are far more likely than their counterparts in ten other high income nations, including the UK, to skip needed medical care, such as visiting a doctor or filling a prescription, and struggle with medical debt.

A study published last June from the University of Washington in collaboration with researchers at Imperial College London found life expectancy rates in 80% of US counties were far behind the standard set in the top ten nations. And a Unicef study in December 2010 showed the US ranked a paltry 22nd in health inequality for children, behind even economically struggling Greece.

"If you don't have insurance, and you're sick, you can go into any clinic and you have to be treated. "

And end up bankrupt? But hang on.. why did people who helped out during the 9/11 terrorist attack have to travel to Cuba to get the help they needed?

.. was it the waiting list.. or that they were told no by the insurance firms?

"Bottom line is that the government in the US can't force me to buy something. I can choose NOT to buy insurance."

But we end up again here.. you do pay for it via taxes. Unless you want to say you are defrauding the government by not paying them.

"If I'm an insurance company, I want to make money, not lose it on open season "everything is covered." "

Cop out.. I said.. "So why do insurance firms deny people on technicalities!!"

If people up ahead know something is not covered.. fair play. But to be told no because an "i" was not doted.

You applaud that?

"man up."

.. Samaritan up.. isn't that what Jesus said!!

Artful Dodger: "You can't be denied health care in the US."

Yes you can, the insurance companies do it all the time.

"Why should I have to pay for others?"

But you do already via taxes, state and federal. DUHHHH!!

"It's not up to the government to play church."

Then it's wrong for churches to play government!!

"Why is that? I know someone who is exempt. He lives in a 350,000 home. He owns a motor home and travels all over the US. But he's tax exempt."

I thought that was the American dream? Well the big companies in the USA seem to like to pay zilch!!

"No one in the USA is denied health care as it's against CURRENT law. Get educated."

So why do insurance firms deny people on technicalities!!

Less than 5 deaths v ...

"A report from the Institute of Medicine of the National Academies states: "Lack of health insurance causes roughly 18,000 unnecessary deaths every year in the United States." [27] A 2009 Harvard study published in the American Journal of Public Health found more than 44,800 excess deaths annually in the United States associated with uninsurance."

Yet the American system costs twice as much per capita. Golly.. how efficient.

It seems very anti American considering...."We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty
and the pursuit of happiness."

Life is now unequal in the USA.

Robert Petson, BBC business editor tweets:
Murdoch very grumpy at suggestion he trades support of his papers for Tories (or Lab) for help with takeover bid

1302: Discussing the BSkyB bid, Mr Murdoch angrily tells Robert Jay QC he would never link the political support of his papers to any commercial transaction. "I simply wouldn't do business that way," he says.

why not? His dad made his business by bribary!!

Robert Peston, BBC business editor tweets: In Sept 2010, Michel calls Hunt or his advisers about a blog I wrote saying ofcom would review bskyb bid, within minutes of me publishing

Simon Kelner, Former editor of The Independent tweets:
Have never once been to a Murdoch summer or Christmas party. Unlike most of the political or media

Ross Hawkins, BBC political correspondent tweets:
Internal News Corp notes from public affairs exec Michel said DCMS sec Jeremy Hunt would be supportive of BSkyB bid #Leveson

1246:Conservative Mr Hunt had taken over responsibility for the BSkyB bid from Business Secretary Vince Cable after the Lib Dem told undercover reporters he had "declared war on Rupert Murdoch" in December 2010.

Robert Peston, BBC business editor tweets:
J Murdoch at #Leveson getting very interesting on circumstances behind Jeremy Hunt approving BSkyB bid in 2011

Simon Kelner, Former editor of The Independent tweets:
J Murdoch says I was 'availing myself of his family's hospitality for a number of years'? Evidence? Complete slur.

1240:Mr Murdoch held two meetings with Culture Secretary Jeremy Hunt in January 2011 after he had acquired responsibility for presiding over it, the inquiry hears.

Back to News Corp's bid for BSkyB now. Mr Murdoch says his company had "real issues" with the analysis of it by regulator Ofcom - which referred the bid to the Competition Commission.

If you're struggling to digest all the twists and turns of the phone-hacking scandal, our Q&A breaks things down in bite-sized chunks.

1234: You can read how the impact of the phone-hacking scandal directly impacted on James Murdoch and his father, Rupert, in our timeline of key events since the News of the World's closure.

Jonny Kiehlmann, Scottish PhD student at Imperial tweets:
So what Murdoch said at #Leveson is that he doesn't think it's right for those who ever accept his family's hospitality to criticise them?‏

Andy Davies, Home Affairs Correspondent Channel 4 News tweets:
Murdoch particularly upset as he claims Indy editor Kelner had been 'availing himself' of Murdoch hospitality 'for years'

1232: Mr Murdoch denies "storming in" to the Independent's offices but says he "wouldn't dispute using colourful language" when he called in to express his displeasure. The poster campaign "was not a decent way to go about [Mr Kelner's] business," he adds.

1229:Mr Murdoch says Independent editor Simon Kelner went "beyond the pale" by erecting posters ahead of the last General Election which read: "Rupert Murdoch won't decide the election - you will".

Fiona Gilson from Derbyshirewrites:

I am puzzled as to what Mr Murdoch does. So far he claims that he is told nothing, asks no questions, remembers nothing, did nothing, met no one of importance and did not need to know what was going on. Can I have his job, please, sounds a doddle?

Outrage tends to bubble up when denials become human drama, triggering media interest. There's the 17-year-old girl who died before her liver transplant was approved. Or the people in California whose insurers canceled their policies retroactively after they got sick. What's often missed is that these cases are the tip of an opaque iceberg. An estimated 10 to 15 percent of claims are denied for various reasons, some of them technical, such as not meeting filing deadlines or failing to get pretreatment authorizations. Denials that produce the most disputes are those where insurers judge the care to be unnecessary or unproven, pitting a proverbial sick David against a multibillion-dollar Goliath. What few Davids know is that insurance contracts by law grant companies the legal right to manage a patient's care, including denying it, sight unseen, and give them the final say, if challenged. Unless the state steps in.

Many denials are iffy calls and can appear distinctly arbitrary, with one insurer saying no to a particular therapy or procedure while others reimburse for it. An FDA-approved drug might be denied because it's used off-label, even if it is shown to work in peer-reviewed reports. In cancer care, the generally expensive intravenous chemotherapy drugs given in a doctor's office are typically covered, while an equivalent, if not better, therapy taken at home orally is not. When insurance authorization is required for each new service or each hospital stay for the same serious illness, who's best to say what's medically necessary? Doctors and their staff will spend hours trying to get the approvals, but patients should be warned that if the company ultimately denies payment, for whatever reason, it's the patients who are responsible—with bill collectors ready at their door.

The problem is bound to grow as insurers make use of sophisticated data tools dubbed "denial engines," which are touted to reduce reimbursements by 3 to 10 percent. Bearing brand names like Ingenix Detection Software and Bloodhound Technologies' ClaimsGuard, they search patient records for any signs that claims have strayed outside company parameters. Weeding out fraud or speeding up processing is one thing; serving up excuses to deny legitimate coverage is another.

... In America now it's a computer that'll be saying no to your health needs... Might as well call them dEaTh dRiVeS

Rupert Murdoch is to give evidence to the Leveson inquiry into phone hacking and media ethics next week, with a day and a half set aside for the News Corporation founder.

Murdoch, the chairman and chief executive of News Corp, is due to give evidence on Wednesday, continuing on Thursday morning if necessary.

His son James, the News Corp deputy chief operating officer and former chairman of the company's UK newspaper business News International, has been allocated a full day on Tuesday for his witness appearance.

Murdoch and his son are based in New York, where News Corp has its headquarters, but will be travelling to London to answer questions from Lord Justice Leveson and his legal team in court 73 at the Royal Courts of Justice.

The Leveson inquiry, set up by prime minister David Cameron following the phone-hacking scandal that led to the closure of the News of the World in July 2011, has heard from more than 100 witnesses since evidence hearings began in November.

Witnesses have included victims of alleged press intrusion, journalists, editors, media executives, police officers and chief constables. However, up to now none have been given a full day, or more, to give evidence by Leveson.

The Murdochs appeared together before MPs on the Commons culture, media and sport select committee to answer questions about News of the World phone-hacking at the height of the scandal in July last year.

That grilling lasted about three hours, including an unscheduled break after a UK Uncut activist threw a paper plate of shaving foam at Rupert Murdoch.

Also giving evidence at the Leveson inquiry next week, on Monday, will be Aidan Barclay, chairman of Daily Telegraph publisher Telegraph Media Group, and Evgeny Lebedev, the son of Russian businessman Alexander Lebedev, who runs his London-based papers the Independent and London Evening Standard.

rod03801: I think if I was pushing through anything it would be to stop policies being cancelled and that there is some form of dramatic change to the pre-existing. A % based on salary.

Health insurers contributed $86.2 million to the U.S. Chamber of Commerce to oppose the law after Obama administration officials criticized the plans for enriching themselves by raising customer premiums.

“We remain very concerned that major health-care reform provisions that go into effect on Jan. 1, 2014 will raise costs and disrupt coverage for individuals, families, seniors and small businesses,” Robert Zirkelbach, a spokesman for America’s Health Insurance Plans, the industry’s Washington lobbyist, said after reading the study.
Profit Margins

Still, the companies saw their average operating profit margins expand to 8.24 percent in the six quarters since the overhaul became law, compared with 6.88 percent for the 18 months before it was passed.

Quarterly earnings per share from continuing operations between the third quarters of 2008 and 2011 jumped 29 percent, and the results have on average beaten analyst estimates since the first quarter of 2009. WellPoint, based in Indianapolis, raised its 2011 earnings forecast in October after third-quarter earnings of $1.77 a share beat by 10 cents, the average estimate of 20 analysts surveyed by Bloomberg.

Question.. are you guys who don't want a universal health care system happy that health insurance companies will cancel policies if the illness costs them too much, or that they will not cover someone with a pre-existing condition.

Even if they are or have worked?

2 Chronicles 15
English Standard Version (ESV)

12 They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their ancestors, with all their heart and soul. 13 All who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, were to be put to death, whether small or great, man or woman.

.. And as the old saying goes about Christianity.

".. and in America it became a business."

On many occasions I have heard Muslims attack the Bible. Some seem keen to slander it anyway they can. But what does the Qur'an say about it? This article examines what the whole Qur'an says about the Jewish and Christian scriptures. The Qur'an used is according to Imam Hafs and translated by Abdullah Yusuf Ali (AYA) or Mohammed Pickthall (MP).

Christianity, Judaism and Islam

The Qur'an teaches that Islam is the continued faithful religion in the same line as the Prophets who were before Muhammad: The same religion has He established for you as that which He enjoined on Noah ... and that which We enjoined on Abraham, Moses, and Jesus (42:13 AYA). The result of this view is that the scriptures given by these Prophets are considered to be genuine scriptures from God: But say, "We (Muslims) believe in the Revelation which has come down to us and in that which came down to you (Jews & Christians); our Allah and your Allah is One" (29:46 AYA).

In the Qur'an there are many references to the Jewish and Christian Holy Books. In fact the Qur'an addresses Christians and Jews in terms of the Book: O People of the Book! (5:68 AYA).

God's Mission For The People of the Book

Christians and Jews are mentioned in the Qur'an as the custodians of scripture: For to them was entrusted the protection of Allah's Book (5:47 AYA/44 MP). God gave the scripture to the Christians and Jews so that they could make known to the whole world and every nation the true knowledge of God: And remember Allah took a Covenant from the People of the Book, to make it known and clear to mankind, and not to hide it (3:187 AYA). Some of the Jews and Christians fulfilled this mission, others did not. Just as there are faithful and unfaithful Muslims so too the Qur'an distinguishes between the faithful and the unfaithful Christians and Jews.

The Unfaithful
The Qur'an describes the behaviour of unfaithful Christians and Jews as:

1/ Concealing the truth of the scripture: Who is more unjust than those who conceal the testimony they have from Allah?' (2:140 AYA).

2/ Teaching falsely and forgetting what they had heard from their scripture:

There is among them a section who distort the Book with their tongues: (As they read) you would think it is a part of the Book, but it is no part of the Book; and they say, "That is from Allah," but it is not from Allah (3:78 AYA). They change words from their context and forget a part of that whereof they were admonished (5:13 MP/14 AYA).

3/ Wanting profit from the scriptures:

And remember Allah took a Covenant from the People of the Book, to make it known and clear to mankind, and not to hide it; but they threw it away behind their backs, and purchased with it some miserable gain! And vile was the bargain they made! (3:187 AYA)

4/ Some of the Jews who were transgressors and did not know the Book wrote false scripture:

But the transgressors changed the word from that which had been given them (2:59 AYA).

Among them are unlettered folk who know the Scripture not except from hearsay. They but guess. Therefore woe be unto them who write the Scripture with their hands and then say, "This is from Allah," that they may purchase a small gain therewith (2:78-79 MP).

The Faithful The Qur'an teaches that there are faithful Christians and Jews:

Not all of them are alike: Of the People of the Book are a portion that stand (for the right); they rehearse the Signs of Allah all night long, and they prostrate themselves in adoration. They believe in Allah and the Last Day; they enjoin what is right, and forbid what is wrong; and they hasten (in emulation) in (all) good works: They are in the ranks of the righteous. Of the good that they do, nothing will be rejected of them; for Allah knoweth well those that do right (3:113-115 AYA).

Nearest among them in love to the Believers wilt thou find those who say, "We are Christians": Because amongst these are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant (5:85 AYA/82 MP).

According to the Qur'an, the faithful Christians and Jews did not do what the unfaithful did; they obeyed their scriptures and worshipped God. But what about the their scriptures? Does the Qur'an consider the scripture of the Jews and Christians to have been corrupted by the actions of the Unfaithful? Or has it been preserved by the Faithful? Does the Qur'an consider that only part of their scripture now contains truth? To answer these questions we need to consider what the Qur'an says of the Jewish and Christian scripture.......

"I believe that there is no country in the world including any and all the countries under colonial domination, where economic colonization, humiliation and exploitation were worse than in Cuba, in part owing to my country’s policies during the Batista regime. I approved the proclamation which Fidel Castro made in the Sierra Maestra, when he justifiably called for justice and especially yearned to rid Cuba of corruption. I will even go further: to some extent it is as though Batista was the incarnation of a number of sins on the part of the United States. Now we shall have to pay for those sins. In the matter of the Batista regime, I am in agreement with the first Cuban revolutionaries. That is perfectly clear."

— U.S. President John F. Kennedy, interview with Jean Daniel, 24 October 1963[

The Conservative Party in the UK went on blaming the Labour Party for the expenses scandal system that existed in the UK.

They forget to say that they introduced the system.

Labour though cannot be said to be clean as they had plenty of time in power to get the expenses system changed. But then, they would lose out just like the Conservative MP's.

Jon Stewart Changes Fox News 9/11 Responders Bill Opinion

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Knqpgj0x7xY&feature=related

Artful Dodger:

politicians have been using that for decades in the UK... like the word REAL. Don't know if they went through that in the US.. but here in the UK for a while, everything was REAL.

... like calling the OWS terrorists.... I guess then by your standards the USA is a terrorist state?

Artful Dodger: The demonstration, which, according to the police and witnesses, left in its path a trail of graffiti and tipped garbage cans, had more in common with anarchist actions at events like the Group of 20 meeting in Pittsburgh in 2009 than with the Occupy Wall Street demonstrations in New York, which have been largely devoid of property damage.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/16/nyregion/3-arrested-in-manhattan-as-march-becomes-a-melee.html

Two cops were injured... not several... but distort the facts as usual Dan.. I know you seem to like being a scare monger.

Artful Dodger: I said originally..."The first mention of racism in the Tea party on this board is by......"

I wasn't saying there was a real link.. (as you keep twisting it into)

"REAL RACISM....couldn't believe a bunch of 'whites' at rallies wouldn't have racist agendas. That in and of itself is racism."

I think it's more a case of bad memories.

"was that racism wasn't present in the Tea Party."

No members at all are racist.. I doubt that very much. But in itself that it is not a statement saying the Tea Party is a racist movement.

"As you always do, you twist things and misrepresent."

No, you are just being a Drama queen over the matter... which is your problem. Don't expect me or others to 'confirm' it for you.

Vikings: ..Ok.. Just when you said they were "demonised".. It sounded like some of what some nutters in Europe on the far right saying they were nice people, or denying that the holocaust even happened... it's just a big lie!!

Sorry Vikings.. But the killing of over 20,000,000 people tends to stain the image of the Nazi's over here in Europe.

That is the figure for those killed by them directly.. not war deaths.

Vikings: Really...... How?

rod03801: To be Nazi's.... I can pretty much understand freedom of speech as it is in the USA... But Nazi's.... The people who organised the murder and torture of countless millions of Jews and other nationalities.

I would have thought most normal people would want to distance themselves from history tell us were basically the sum of the earth.

But then... why have many in America demonised socialism and liberals, yet support rights of Nazi's!!

rod03801: So have alot of other nationalities. During WWII we had many escapees from the Nazi's fighting from Britain.

Vikings: To be a Nazi!! orchestrator's of one of the greatest pogroms of the 20th century. Who Americans and it's allies fought and died against in WWII.

The reason why Israel got to be Israel!!

Well.. I suppose it's more honest then the British National Party.

But I must say Rod... What the royal hell is the US allowing a Nazi party?

rod03801: True.. it hasn't really, such is the power of old 'traditional' ideologies that it'll take a few generations to start to vanish.

"The first mention of racism in the Tea party on this board is by......"

It was. I didn't say the Tea party is racist, although by the social demographic breakdown.. there will be some 'elements'.

I mean.. you have an American Nazi party now officially having lobbyists. Racism has not gone from America.

Artful Dodger: "Despite my attempts to convince Dad otherwise, based on my personal experiences attending over two hundred tea parties across America traveling on Tea Party Express, Dad persists in believing the rallies are racist. Dad believes all criticism of Obama and his agenda is racist. It appears that no amount of truth will penetrate the wall of affection Dad has for the historic figure he never imagined would exist in his lifetime.
Out of respect, I have not confronted Dad, my hero, regarding his irrational support for a president whose agenda so radically goes against his Christian faith — gay marriage, abortion, the murderous partial birth abortion, etc."

As I said.. the first mention of there being any racism/racist motives behind the Tea party was through you on this board.

Can't you read, or are you just quibbling over the words racist and racism?? I know one ends in a 't' and one ends in a 'm'... but picking over that is just pettifogging.

The first mention of racism in the Tea party on this board is by......

Politics (Artful Dodger, 2010-07-12 08:27:34)

I think.. might of missed one in the search!!

Artful Dodger: I think most concentrated on the structure and funding of the tea party... but wth... knock yourself out.

rod03801: So this is a battle over who has the biggest bad element..

OMG... I thought that was a kid thing?

Artful Dodger: Anarchists... oh nooooo. People not conforming, expressing their freedom of speech!! Like when the Tea party and other groups such as the KKK and neo nazis go on marches.

But don't worry.... if "They use violence and intimidation" I'm sure those rednecks with mountains of guns and ammo can intervene.

I'm being sarcastic btw.

"bad elements. OTOH, the Tea Party does not" .... "Any group would have a few bad apples."

these two terms contradict each other.

..... same old hypocrisy

Artful Dodger:

"FOR THE RAPE VICTIM"

One victim and now it's all of them, or for all of them and you are just talking about one?

"The mere fact that they had to set up safe zones in the OWS camps proves the camps were a dangerous place as well as many of the protesters were dangerous people."

So no-one outside the protest was dangerous? Muggings, murders and all outside the camp just stopped.

"No, you're making light of all of it."

No, being real.

"the racist element of the Tea Party (even when none existed)."

Again, I was being real... boo hoo.

"The racist element is a myth."

Like God?

"But in the case of OWS, it happend and was covered up."

Hardly a cover up or good attempt at one. But hey... you can think what you want... Do you think the average of 60% of rapes/sexual assaults not being reported each year is going to significantly change, or that the figure of 74% of rapes being committed by a person the victim knows??

"Or like the gang rape epidemic in Britian - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5oWn6_lwQQQ "

Wow... a BNP supporters upload focussing on rape by black people. Forgetting to include some matters of how they learnt disrespect from women. Such as evangelical christibles saying women are second class, or other influences.

Golly... Do you want me to find one about the 95%+ of rapes in the USA are by white males that I heard?

rod03801: It'd only matter as a 'OMG moment' to those who wear rose tinted specs and don't understand statistical social dynamics.

Artful Dodger: Call me out all you want.. if that makes you feel better.

"am I to take the word of one such as you? "

Since when has your word been reliable?

Artful Dodger: Pettifogging yet again. Guess it's your best defence.