Iamon lyme: Well, I'm looking at several estimates and taking an average of those estimates.. as I doubt at this present time a accurate figure can be obtained.. takes a few weeks or so for the police to cook their expenses!!

"think Bernice was telling me how much tax payers pay every year to keep the royal family in business."

Yes.. well. lol that cherry picked figure ignores the income (in excess of £260 million) that the UK Treasury gets from the Royal Family each year... ie $520,0000.000 .

.. It don't matter to extreme right wingers as it doesn't to extreme anti government groups. They are present in the USA and certain figures suggest a 25% "still don't believe" figure despite the release and confirmation of Obama's long birth cert.

(V): According to Jay Leno, the Queen felt that 65,000,000 was too much to shell out for a wedding in these uncertain economic times. If security came to about 40,000,000, then does this mean the wedding only cost the families 25,000,000? A mere pittance! I think Bernice was telling me how much tax payers pay every year to keep the royal family in business.. that was the figure I was trying to catch. As to you explaining in your own words the logic of Obamas lack of transparency.. "it don't matter" to whom?

LONDON — The royal wedding brought mixed results to retail, as the London crowds opted for Champagne, Pimm’s-fuelled celebrations and outdoor pursuits rather than shopping on Friday. But as soon as the celebrations were over, the shoppers and tourists came out in force.

“Friday was mixed, with tourists watching the wedding and celebrating,” said Jace Tyrell, communications director of the New West End Company, which represents businesses around Oxford, Regent and Bond Streets.

“But weekend sales have risen almost in the double-digits compared with last year from the influx of tourists. Between last Easter weekend and this one, we’re looking at a very good April.”

Stores including Selfridges, Jack Wills, and Burberry all saw a rise in footfall from the festivities.

“Pre-wedding day, our food hall saw some of our highest store traffic with sales to match in convenience, fresh, party food and cakes as well as fine wine, Champagne and spirits,” said Meave Wall, the store’s director.

“Throughout the weekend, fashion and accessories, including shoes, performed well and royal wedding memorabilia continued to sell through even post-wedding as customers were keen to secure a memento of this historic day,” she added.

Indeed, the tourist shops in town were stripped bare of mugs, t-shirts, and tea towels — the British name for a dishcloth. “We ran out of them and can’t get them anywhere now,” said one store owner in central London.

“The tourists come in to buy them as a cheap gift for friends back home, but the English all come in saying they need them to mop up the champagne at their parties,” he added. Jack Wills, the British brand that’s a favourite among posh college-aged students — more youthful versions of the royal couple — said sales in the run up to the wedding had been fantastic.

“Tourism was certainly a contributing factor, but the media interest surrounding the Jack Wills set — because of the wedding — definitely helped spur sales,” said a company spokesperson.

full article


I mean.. I was in London the day before ...only takes 30 mins by train, on the way back I stopped by Westminster and it was packed. Americans everywhere

Iamon lyme: Because as the statistics show .. it don't matter. A percentage will always feel he's lying. Regardless of it being written in mile high letters (see God's final message to the universe) they would still would not believe him. This is the reality of how brainwashed some people are in America, it's called extremism. It's present in all Countries.

As to the wedding.. yes we pay for the security, which was from various estimates about £40,000,000 (tops, Bernices figure ) yet at the same time created from the event 100's of millions in tourism revenue.

You did know that tourism from international travellers was £9,000,000,000 last year to London.

The Col: Never does in such conflicts... remember, we had Northern Ireland. In the end it didn't matter who did what as they all sides (IRA/Loyalists/Army/British Gov/ Irish supporters) .. and the rest of supporting 'actors' had blood on their hands. We still today have "The Real IRA" (who are not the real IRA) killing even after all the major parties have said "enough".

Bernice: I was 97% certain there is no literal goose laying golden eggs inside the palace walls. I would have been 100% certain, but was so busy chasing (V) down the rabbit hole I almost got lost. So, not even close to a billion dollars then? A mere pittance!

Iamon lyme: $163,000,000 (estimate)...just a drop in the hat for a country that is poverty ridden. LOL

(V): "The only bill the tax payer payed for was security." Right.The taxpayer is only tapped to pay for security at royal weddings. Thanks for clearing that up. Other than for security at weddings, our tax payers are not required to pony up money to support our royal family either. Well, except for that time Obama took Oprah for a ride on Air Force One, but that was a justifiable expense.

(V): ".. Is that so?" Yes, that is so. If it is not so, then in your own words please, explain how Obama honoring request for proof of citizenship would have triggered an investigation into proof of citizenship? Showing requested papers would not have put speculation to rest, because there would be no speculation to put to rest. He didn't just control the story, he inspired it. So in your own words please, explain the logic behind Obamas reluctance to not appear to be hiding anything?

Well, Hamas's version of "pouring petrol" is much less desirable than inhabiting disputed lands IMO, they have been known to do it literally, not figuratively, but I suppose that doesn't fit their new freedom fighter image

The Col: Aye, the Palestinians should. As to it being an opinion on the land nicking.. I'm basing my opinion on UN statements regarding the Gaza strip and West Bank. Even the Israeli government has admitted (through watching documentaries on the problem) that in some cases Israeli Jews are taking land that even they have a problem accepting the rationality of the rogue settlements.

Pouring petrol onto embers is not a good way of putting a fire out.

(V):The proposition that Israel is " nicking Palestinian land" is opinion.Israel rightfully not trusting Palestinian terrorist representation is not.Requasting an honest broker in negotiations is reasonable.I suggest they get their house in order before coming to the table,

The Col: True.... I would expect Hamas to condemn the killing, but they are an extreme group. Unfortunately as long as Israel keeps nicking Palestinian land they will get a voice.

(V): Hamas has condemed the killing, and this is the Palestinian leadership Israel has to deal with.

The Col: Well I can't hear any riots or (seeing as I live near a military base) gunfire as the Muslims in our area rise up. One I personally know is more concerned about his gadgets....

.. he's a computer nut.. loves Apple but hates Microsoft.

(V): re:"Perhaps it could be said that your bias is making you clueless"

Some will say anything for attention

Artful Dodger:

Pehaps you should read or remember...

"As we do, we must also reaffirm that the United States is not - and never will be - at war with Islam. I've made clear, just as President Bush did shortly after 9/11, that our war is not against Islam. Bin Laden was not a Muslim leader; he was a mass murderer of Muslims. Indeed, al-Qaeda has slaughtered scores of Muslims in many countries, including our own. So his demise should be welcomed by all who believe in peace and human dignity."


Perhaps it could be said that your bias is making you clueless.

Iamon lyme: Maybe it's all in Conservative American paranoia that he had something to hide and nowhere else. The focus on his birth certificate reminds me of an old Zen story of a monk accused of having a baby with an unmarried woman who said it was him to protect the real father.

His reply to all the accusations.. "Is that so?"
http://users.rider.edu/~suler/zenstory/isthatso.html

"Obama was in control of the story."

.. Is that so?

Artful Dodger: Then why did the Christian west teach them so well to kill?

.. Oh... It was Russians back then that they were originally taught to kill, I suppose being heathens it doesn't count in the eyes of some Western observers.

Artful Dodger: It sounds like you're the type who would be pissed if Santa left snow on your floor after leaving you the gift you'd been waiting for

(V): I didn't claim he isn't a U.S. citizen. My question is why does he act as though he has something to hide? What happens if you are asked to provide proof of who you are when applying for a drivers licence, and you say no? He obviously has something to show or he couldn't have gone from weed toking scholar to community activist and then into politics. So why all the fuss? What is so important to him that he is willing to let some lame conspiracy theory go unchecked. All he had to do was show papers that any presidential hopeful is asked to show. He could still do it. Could have done it at any time. As for anyone else profiting from Obamas apparent lack of transparency, so what? Obama was in control of the story. If it is wrong for anyone other than Obama to profit from that story, then all Obama had to do was .. wait for it .. hold on to your chair .. this could be a paradigm shifting revelation .. chamber pot and paper bag ready? .. all Obama had to do was practice what he preaches.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1382241/Barack-Obama-faces-fresh-doubts-Hawaiian-heritage.html

"Where's The Birth Certificate? - subtitled The Case That Barack Obama Is Not Eligible To Be President - already has advance sales of 150,000 copies and is likely to enter the market at the top of Amazon's sales list. Joseph Farah, founder and chief executive of the publishers WND, claims that it will be one of the biggest books of the year, with sales of at least 500,000 copies................... His views, though, are anything but ordinary. In 1996 he seriously considered running for president under the far-Right Constitution Party banner, though he ultimately withdrew, and has made a number of wild and unsubstantiated claims, including suggestions that Hillary Rodham Clinton is a lesbian, and that Muslims worship Satan.

Lot more in that article... I think that's why it took two writers to write it.

Iamon_lyme: So has Palin and other Republicans.. So do celebrities and other famous people such as those who do well in sports, those who play the religion game, etc, etc.

Singling out just Democrats as the only people who write books after leaving a job is a little one sided and only half the story.

Iamon_lyme: No I did answer it. The families paid for it. The only bill the tax payer paid for was security.

"the one most to gain from questioning Obamas legitimacy was Obama."

No.. it'll be the ones selling the books carrying on the questioning. Jerome Corsi I see from news reports is publishing yet another of his books on the 'truth' of the matter for Conservatives to read and say "I told you so". Donald Trump has also played on the birth certificate matter to boost his support in the Republican/Tea party camp.

"This is why you continue bringing it up, is it not? "

Nope. I only brought it up because it was mentioned on this board by another and used it as an example of how some Americans are still caught in political hogwash.

"You don't tell your Queen what to do or say"

Yes she does get told what to do and what to say regarding certain of her roles as Monarch. She is our Queen, not the government or our PM.

(V): I don't believe pre-election Obama was playing a game of hounds and foxes. I don't believe he is that clever. He doesn't have to be, he has clever fellows like you to defend him. I think he genuinely feels that it is beneath his dignity to be treated as any other American president, and whatever his qualifications may be are none of our business. You don't tell your Queen what to do or say, so why should he listen to us? I will say that he is adept at learning from past democrat presidents. ~ Clinton write book make lots of money, I write book make lots of money. ~ Clinton good looking guy, me good looking guy.. no, better looking. ~ Clinton no care what future generations will have to deal with, me don't even know what that means.. what has that to do with me? Doesn't matter, I don't care about that either. ~ Past presidents go on speaking tours, make lots more money regardless of how good they were, me go on lecture circuit too.. hope the economy recovers enough for those fools to pay me what they payed Clinton.

(V): When I said most Americans are savy, does this not imply that some are not savy? The one most to gain from questioning Obamas legitimacy was Obama. This is why you continue bringing it up, is it not? When I asked you who is paying for the royal wedding, your answer was the families. You then said "Constitutional Monarchy", and credited them for being a tourist attraction. I understand they also fill a diplomatic role, do they not? As to how the wedding was payed for, you answered my question without really answering it. That's okay, I aready knew the answer.

Artful Dodger: "so instead they engage in never-ending ad hominem."

Artful Dodger: Talking about Glenn Beck again.

Or this?? Politics (Artful Dodger, 2011-04-30 19:37:56)

Iamon_lyme: No voices... just reading the news and various sites over how this stupidity over a birth certificate has been playing. Some hard right nutters have even been trying to say that Hawaii is not a state of the USA.

As to Art's "In reality, there was no kangaroo court."

Kangaroo court is an expression of how some people can judge someone/thing without credible evidence. It quite fits how some hard right nutters make up conspiracies (in this case that Obama is not an American citizen) and despite proof carry on thinking they are right.

Artful Dodger: I wasn't sure what he was trying to do. If he wants to play with straw dolls I have no objection. I don't know what he thinks he is accomplishing, except for giving us a platform to dispute the real (not imagined) nonsense going on in American politics today. God has a purpose for everyone, and if his is to play the fool then God bless his pointy little head.

(V): lol You have the advantage over me.. I don't know what the voices in your head are telling you, I only know what you and I have been saying.

Iamon_lyme: So.. you are saying that the tea party are copying "democrat/crack party" art and making it their own? They are more nutty so you say!!

Artful Dodger: Well how about that! A guy in a cowboy hat, sitting in a park and sippin' on a cup of joe (tea?) who is able to cite court rulings based on constitutional principles.. were these rulings only in favor of a left leaning demonstrators right to free speech? I would like to see gas bags wearing three piece suits try telling me how those rulings don't apply to anyone else.. are there any of those on youtube?

(V): "The kangaroo court that some Republican/tea party members set up.." It was Democrat/ crack party members who started that trend. it's been that way a long time now, long before the tea party ever showed up. The information you google might be getting rerouted through intermultidimensional trans-atlantic rifts, can't aways rely on what comes back from dimensions where everyones heads and hands are way too big for their bodies. In some dimensions the concept of hypocrisy is as foreign as knowing which side of the bread should be buttered. Due to translation difficulties it is not out the ordinary for research to come back somewhat demented or incomprehensible.

Artful Dodger: That guy is great! I'll have to watch some more of his videos.

(V): "Comply to whom?" .. The people who will be voting for either candidate, that's 'whom'. It is not a mandate, but something people have come to expect from either party. We have been lectured by the left to demand transparency, bipartisanship, and yes, even U.S citizenship status. The left insists the people have a right to know anything they want to know.. about any republican candidate. They don't need to tell us if the same standards of transparency and decency apply to them. The are above reproach, and above approach. We don't deserve them.. I mean really, we really don't.

Iamon_lyme: Comply to whom? The kangaroo court that some Republican/tea party members set up.... I ask you. Under what constitutional premise or law of the USA states that the President has to answer to such bogus courts?

Is Sideshow Bob in charge??

If it came down to a race between Trump and Obama I would vote for Trump. If Obama is put forward as the same and next "credible" candidate, I would vote for any republican candidate that party puts on the ticket. I think some former (disenchanted) Obama voters would either sit it out or vote for Trump as well. I would like to see Trump say "You're fired" to the Obama appointed czars. They then could have their own TV special, Dancing with the Czars, hosted by the the former king of czars.

(V): I said that "I think most Americans are savy.."Also, in a previous message I said it doesn't matter if he is a natural born citizen or not because he is now the president, and so we are stuck with him until the next election. When called upon to provide proof of medical health or anything else relevant (like, U.S. citizenship) Obama steadfastly refused to comply. He seemed to welcome questions about his citizenship, without acknowledging those questions, so I believe he wanted us to focus on that instead of other issues surrounding him. Whenever democrats talk about something they "believe" in, something like transparency, it doesn't necessarily mean they are talking about themselves.

Iamon_lyme: Long term.. as well as the financial income they generate by being a loved Royal family... they are a great tourist attraction.

As to savy.... "President Obama is not a natual born citizen therefore he is ineligible to be president".

Conspiracy theory or just plain bad form due to losing the Election?

The issue of race in presidential elections has been put to rest with the election of Barack Obama. That would seem obvious. What doesn't seem obvious is our commitment to the constitution. President Obama is not a natual born citizen therefore he is ineligible to be president

(V): Most Americans understand the political motivations behind elections here. Only some fall for the hype that filters through into foreign markets. Whether they speak up or not, I think most Americans are savy to what their own free press does with that freedom.

(V): The families you say? Are their apparent fanancial/investment instincts genetic?

Artful Dodger: Comparing two time dates with a 44 year gap without the relevant background data explaining aspects of demographics and vote swings due to dynamic changes in Democratic Party and Republican Party core policies...

.. Do all Americans really fall for empty figures like that?

Iamon_lyme: The families. Great thing to have a constitutional Monarchy.

Horse walks into a bar. The bartender looks up and says "Why the long face?" Horse says "My human care giver continues calling me an old nag, even after leading academics have condemned such insulting stereotypes. He continues to promote the ever widening rift between humans and members of the aminal kingdom." Bartender looks nervously around, sees John Kerry coming in and says "Norm!!"