http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=when-does-consciousness-arise

The Road to Awareness
But when does the magical journey of consciousness begin? Consciousness requires a sophisticated network of highly interconnected components, nerve cells. Its physical substrate, the thalamo-cortical complex that provides consciousness with its highly elaborate content, begins to be in place between the 24th and 28th week of gestation. Roughly two months later synchrony of the electroencephalographic (EEG) rhythm across both cortical hemispheres signals the onset of global neuronal integration. Thus, many of the circuit elements necessary for consciousness are in place by the third trimester. By this time, preterm infants can survive outside the womb under proper medical care. And as it is so much easier to observe and interact with a preterm baby than with a fetus of the same gestational age in the womb, the fetus is often considered to be like a preterm baby, like an unborn newborn. But this notion disregards the unique uterine environment: suspended in a warm and dark cave, connected to the placenta that pumps blood, nutrients and hormones into its growing body and brain, the fetus is asleep.

Invasive experiments in rat and lamb pups and observational studies using ultrasound and electrical recordings in humans show that the third-trimester fetus is almost always in one of two sleep states. Called active and quiet sleep, these states can be distinguished using electroencephalography. Their different EEG signatures go hand in hand with distinct behaviors: breathing, swallowing, licking, and moving the eyes but no large-scale body movements in active sleep; no breathing, no eye movements and tonic muscle activity in quiet sleep. These stages correspond to rapid-eye-movement (REM) and slow-wave sleep common to all mammals. In late gestation the fetus is in one of these two sleep states 95 percent of the time, separated by brief transitions.

What is fascinating is the discovery that the fetus is actively sedated by the low oxygen pressure (equivalent to that at the top of Mount Everest), the warm and cushioned uterine environment and a range of neuroinhibitory and sleep-inducing substances produced by the placenta and the fetus itself: adenosine; two steroidal anesthetics, allopregnanolone and pregnanolone; one potent hormone, prostaglandin D2; and others. The role of the placenta in maintaining sedation is revealed when the umbilical cord is closed off while keeping the fetus adequately supplied with oxygen. The lamb embryo now moves and breathes continuously. From all this evidence, neonatologists conclude that the fetus is asleep while its brain matures....

....The dramatic events attending delivery by natural (vaginal) means cause the brain to abruptly wake up, however. The fetus is forced from its paradisic existence in the protected, aqueous and warm womb into a hostile, aerial and cold world that assaults its senses with utterly foreign sounds, smells and sights, a highly stressful event.

As Hugo Lagercrantz, a pediatrician at the Karolinska Institute in Stockholm, discovered two decades ago, a massive surge of norepinephrine—more powerful than during any skydive or exposed climb the fetus may undertake in its adult life—as well as the release from anesthesia and sedation that occurs when the fetus disconnects from the maternal placenta, arouses the baby so that it can deal with its new circumstances. It draws its first breath, wakes up and begins to experience life.

>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is what we are being told we should ignore by those who would impose beliefs..

...Just like Mitt is still playing the Birther crowd.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8AVjNdDTtM

Since when has belief been stronger than knowing or no-thing?

I like the views of these guys when it comes to Atheism.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_1Ikf-9EkA&feature=related

Para'd ... .. "where are the records of zombies entering into Jerusalem?"

A Norwegian court has found that mass killer Anders Behring Breivik is sane and sentenced him to 21 years in jail. Breivik, who admitted killing 77 people when he bombed central Oslo and then opened fire at an island youth camp, told the court he would not appeal.

He insisted he was sane and refused to plead guilty, saying last year's attacks were necessary to stop the "Islamisation" of Norway. Prosecutors had called for him to be considered insane.

Breivik was convicted of terrorism and premeditated murder, and given the maximum sentence of 21 years' imprisonment. However, that can be prolonged at a later date if he is deemed to remain a danger to society.

Delivering the verdict, Judge Wenche Elisabeth Arntzen said that the court considered Breivik to be suffering from "narcissistic personality characteristics" but not psychosis.

She imposed a sentence of "preventive detention", a special prison term for criminals considered dangerous to society. She set the minimum length of imprisonment to 10 years.

Afterwards Breivik said he did not recognise the court, which he contended had "sided with the multicultural majority in parliament", but said he would not appeal as this would legitimise the proceedings.

Prosecutors - who had argued the defendant was insane - also said they would not challenge the verdict. Some of the survivors and relatives of his victims welcomed the verdict and the end of the trial. "Now we can have peace and quiet," Per Balch Soerensen, whose daughter was among those killed in the shootings on on Utoeya island, told Denmark's TV2.

Lilith is supposedly Adam's first wife. I found out about her in my exploring of the original texts that were around at the time of Christ and before. Since I kept on being told I can't be a Christian as my views were 'new age' and therefore Satanic in origin... what a load of baloney that turned out to be.

Adam couldn't handle her as an equal...

"....The pseudepigraphic[93] 8th-10th centuries Alphabet of Ben Sira is considered to be the oldest form of the story of Lilith as Adam's first wife. Whether this particular tradition is older is not known. Scholars tend to date the Alphabet between the 8th and 10th centuries AD.

In the text an amulet is inscribed with the names of three angels (Senoy, Sansenoy, and Semangelof) and placed around the neck of newborn boys in order to protect them from the lilin until their circumcision.[94] The amulets used against Lilith that were thought to derive from this tradition are, in fact, dated as being much older.[95] The concept of Eve having a predecessor is not exclusive to the Alphabet, and is not a new concept, as it can be found in Genesis Rabbah. However, the idea that Lilith was the predecessor is exclusive to the Alphabet.

The idea in the text that Adam had a wife prior to Eve may have developed from an interpretation of the Book of Genesis and its dual creation accounts; while Genesis 2:22 describes God's creation of Eve from Adam's rib, an earlier passage, 1:27, already indicates that a woman had been made: "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them." The Alphabet text places Lilith's creation after God's words in Genesis 2:18 that "it is not good for man to be alone"; in this text God forms Lilith out of the clay from which he made Adam but she and Adam bicker. Lilith claims that since she and Adam were created in the same way they were equal and she refuses to submit to him:...."

... tells you what Conservative Christians think of women...

Is it the Mary Magdalene bit, Eve (Lilith being too much for Adam to handle), man being master of his house...

God is not male you know, the man being master refers to metaphors on assertiveness. Female being the passive assertive and man being the aggressive assertive.

Iamon lyme: You don't like my answer and are moaning.

Tuff.

Iamon lyme: It's a term.. You do understand metaphors and the like?

I was 'carried' for about nine months. Until I was born I relied on a (this is science) a parasitic lifestyle (just as you and everyone else does) where my embryo released a hormone to stop my host's immune system killing me.

I thank the woman for carrying me, and out of respect for her I'd never force her or any other woman by law to be automatic baby carriers.

I guess I have respect for life that is first and not a life that maybe and cannot be for several months on it's own.

Iamon lyme: The answer seems to be you have no respect for the woman. You only consider her a baby machine. Most of the rest was just mumbo jumbo made up bull.

I do like answers, just I like them from people who will answer straight rather than play spin games.

Iamon lyme: Wow... a straight forward reply seems to be out of the question for you.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints takes a position against abortion and holds that abortion is a form of killing. However, there are exceptions. According to a statement in the LDS library, "Some exceptional circumstances may justify an abortion, such as when pregnancy is the result of incest or rape, when the life or health of the mother is judged by competent medical authority to be in serious jeopardy, or when the fetus is known by competent medical authority to have severe defects that will not allow the baby to survive beyond birth." The statement goes on to say, "Those who face such circumstances should consider abortion only after consulting with their local Church leaders and receiving a confirmation through earnest prayer."[25]

Before 1980, the Southern Baptist Convention officially advocated for loosening of abortion restrictions.[16] During the 1971 and 1974 Southern Baptist Conventions, Southern Baptists were called upon "to work for legislation that will allow the possibility of abortion under such conditions as rape, incest, clear evidence of severe fetal deformity, and carefully ascertained evidence of the likelihood of damage to the emotional, mental, and physical health of the mother."[16] W. Barry Garrett wrote in the Baptist Press, "Religious liberty, human equality and justice are advanced by the [Roe v. Wade] Supreme Court Decision."[16]

By 1980, conservative Protestant leaders became vocal in their opposition to legalized abortion,[17] and by the early 1990s Pat Robertson's Christian Coalition of America became a significant pro-life organization.[11] In 2005, Richard Land, president of the Southern Baptist Convention’s Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission, said that making abortion illegal is more important than any other issue.[18]

>>> So Conservative Christians... why the policy change?

So Rupert Murdoch thinks it's vital that naked pics of a Prince are printed on the front page of "The Sun"...

Isn't there a moral issue involved?

And still no Conservative from the US can answer one question.

What gives them the right to dictate to women what to do with their bodies. What gives them the right to dictate to couples what to do with their life.

What gives them the right to use a religious tool to say you should do this?

No answer from Dan or Lamon lyme.

Typical!!

"universal concept" On one planet???

I'd like to see affidavits from all other lifeforms on that.

Ok, I'll settle for those in the visible universe.

The Col: Women should be at home ideology!!

Scientific thresholds -  survival chart of a developing fetus.

In COLOUR I'm afraid, not black and white... even some grey.

Sex education is taught as standard at UK schools.

"They focus on these three reasons but rarely address such casual reasons as the woman simply doesn't want to look fat."

I would think that statistical figure is low.. as is the use of such low level statistics.

The Col: On the subject of Fetus survival I read...

"At 23 weeks there is a 25% chance of survival, and a 50% chance at 24 weeks, and the numbers increase from there. A baby born this early, however, has only a 12% chance of intact survival, which means that the baby will develop without any problems in the future, and this number also increases each week. At 28 weeks there is a much bigger chance of survival for the baby. I had a baby at 22 weeks and was told that there was nothing they could do for her, and she passed away two hours later. I was told that if she had been born at 23 weeks I would have had the option to try to do everything they could for her to live."

This is a woman speaking btw...

"There have been a couple of 20-21 weeker that have been born and survived, but most hospitals have policies these days which all but eliminate the possibility of life sustaining interventions prior to 23-25 weeks (usually 23 weeks)."

It seems the Doctors say life cannot exist outside the womb until 23 weeks with a reasonable chance of survival.

The baby then, can be independently alive. But ONLY with a great deal of support.

The Col: I've got relatives in Florida.. nice people.

If attitudes don't change and the media and interested parties stop playing games for profit.

It's happened before and destroyed empires in the process.

This attitude is further reflected in the Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom, originally authored by Jefferson and championed by Madison, and guaranteeing that no one may be compelled to finance any religion or denomination.

... no man shall be compelled to frequent or support any religious worship, place, or ministry whatsoever, nor shall be enforced, restrained, molested, or burthened in his body or goods, nor shall otherwise suffer on account of his religious opinions or belief; but that all men shall be free to profess, and by argument to maintain, their opinion in matters of religion, and that the same shall in no wise diminish enlarge, or affect their civil capacities.[26]


A ban on Abortion seems to be against US first amendment.

The Col: That would breaking the US constitution. They might as well bring back slavery, it's just as bad.

But, then again.. acts are as such referring to the legal fiction that present on a Birth Certificate, a legal entity for identification in the world of commerce.

It is not your name as stated under the Common Laws of England.

The parts of the Magna Carta still in law..



1. FIRST, We have granted to God, and by this our present Charter have confirmed, for Us and our Heirs for ever, that the Church of England shall be free, and shall have all her whole Rights and Liberties inviolable. We have granted also, and given to all the Freemen of our Realm, for Us and our Heirs for ever, these Liberties under-written, to have and to hold to them and their Heirs, of Us and our Heirs for ever.

9. THE City of London shall have all the old Liberties and Customs which it hath been used to have. Moreover We will and grant, that all other Cities, Boroughs, Towns, and the Barons of the Five Ports, as with all other Ports, shall have all their Liberties and free Customs.

29. NO Freeman shall be taken or imprisoned, or be disseised of his Freehold, or Liberties, or free Customs, or be outlawed, or exiled, or any other wise destroyed; nor will We not pass upon him, nor condemn him, but by lawful judgment of his Peers, or by the Law of the land. We will sell to no man, we will not deny or defer to any man either Justice or Right.[43]

The Col: It wouldn't matter if it wasn't for them wanting to turn scripture into law... If the talk was less extreme and more moderate they'd get more voters and be a people party rather than an 'us and them' party.

The Col: Yep... only the 1% benefit.

If a UK rbased extreme right wing party got a MP and suggested banning abortion ... hang on.. never happen. It cost too much in laundry bills through the other MP's wetting themselves in laughter.

The Magna Carta forbids it..

"""Texas Democrats are calling for the resignation of a Republican elected county judge who warned this week that the nation could descend into civil war if President Barack Obama is re-elected.

"It's really up to Judge (Tom) Head to do the right thing and resign and stop embarrassing Lubbock County," said Kenny Ketner, who became the county Democratic Party's chief Monday.""""

Wow... we had a crazy judge like that... or two or three, they are gone now thank God!!

The Col: All because of 'the bible' .. Jesus would be turning in his grave (yet again) if he had one!!

The Col: Like in the Film "V for Vendetta" ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2ty3b4EBMg

.... In that film such extremes ended up in a new civil war.

Btw.. isn't it true that if the Mitt wins and tries to get through legislation on banning abortion.. The line between state and church separation is crossed.

As, the Bible is being used to decide on government policy.

That is illegal from what I've read.

The Col: Then what. Back to no condoms??

Good way to increase the US death rates.

I'd like to know one simple straight forward answer to this question.

What gives anyone the right to tell a woman what she is to do with her body?

The Col: I know.... but getting it through!!

I hope they are willing to cover the extra cost that the ER, doctors and hospitals will find themselves spending to help the sick women that result from driving abortions underground.

... But it just about the perceived Bible interpretation being right!! Can't waste semen, as it is all that is needed to create life.

egg, womb, women.. irrelevant.

The Col: Aren't Christians allowed to challenge dogma? I was taught I could!!

The Col: Really... how? And isn't that a bit hypocritical... small government, yet you are now wanting to use government to ban abortions!! Even at a state level that's hypocritical.

"McCain had a backbone and wouldn't be as likely to cave to their wishes in regards to "personhood" and the outlawing of abortion nationwide."

And what if a visitor arrives from another country, gets raped by a US citizen, ends up in hospital for months and wants to abort, let alone their own women.

Sorry, brothers and sisters...

It was how they liked to be called.

I mean.. it was interesting when at an RC school to hear from the monks and sisters who studied Religious history honesty, when it came to how the RC Church had badly behaved.

I think they wanted to warn us against 'people of the book'

The Col: Not very Christian placing power on Earth over ya so called 'christian values' is it!!

.. It's not a new idea though.

... How does the US Christian Churches justify the change in policy?

Yes, I say policy, for if the idea that Mormonism is Satanism is not a solid 'biblical' statement from God. If it was, then Mormonism would still be as a solid law from God... SaTaNiSm.

But now, the Churches are split... some say yes, some not, some are undecided..

God must be so ... ... fickle!!

Obama uses one wrong word and the Conservatives here behave like rabid dogs... But... shhhh that's allowed... because only conservatives have the right to moan endlessly in the US...

But this is not the US!!

.. It seems it's the intent of the neo con conservatives in the US, to make it a Christian state through the back door.

... ie it's only the Bible they are using to state that life begins at conception... One book.

That's dictatorism, fascism and unequal.

mckinley: They are getting very silly with the wording just to justify them imposing their will on women. It's pathetic word spinning.

I mean.. if the innocent baby is in their minds that important.. Then why is Vietnam still contaminated by Agent Orange?

No marches demanding the US government clean up that mess are there by Conservatives are there!?!!

If Church and state are separate, then using the Bible as a moral basis is unconstitutional imo.

He also continued to back-pedal from his comments last Sunday about "legitimate rape", accepting that the views he expressed were "medically wrong".

Although Tuesday was the final day for Mr Akin to withdraw from the race without a court order, he did not categorically rule out stepping aside at a later date. "I'm never going to say everything that could possibly happen," he told ABC. "I don't know the future." Mr Akin also confirmed that Republican vice-presidential candidate Paul Ryan had urged him to end his campaign.

While Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney has said he believes abortion should be allowed for rape victims, his running mate has previously taken a harder line.

Mr Ryan, a Wisconsin congressman, co-sponsored along with Mr Akin and other lawmakers a controversial bill that would ban federal funding for abortion with a rape-exception only in cases of "forcible rape".

On Wednesday, the Republican running mate was asked in an interview to define forcible rape. He told Pittsburgh television station KDKA: "Rape is rape and there's no splitting hairs over rape."

Democrats are trying to portray Mr Akin's comments on rape as symptomatic of a negative attitude towards women across the Republican party.

There has been renewed focus on a Republican convention platform, which resurfaces every election year, for a constitutional ban on abortion with no exceptions for rape or incest. It will be voted on next Monday at the party gala in Tampa, Florida.


<<<<< It looks Republican men want women to be again, the weaker sex...

.... with rights as dictated by the Christian Churches of the US.

It might end up with .. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSe38dzJYkY

Gov. Haley Barbour: White Citizen Council Good Ole' Days

or... how the Republicans would like to "rewrite history".

Freemen Arrest A Judge. Birkenhead UK (part 1)