Jim Dandy:

Democrats supported the war,but only based on what they were fed as facts.

I can agree there is a bit of a difference in the two situations..... but the fact remains that we were voted into going to war, and there were many who could not get past the reasons, and for them failure was the only option.

What good could come from failing in Iraq except to make Bush look bad? There is absolutely no other upside, so why fight it so hard, unless your only agenda is to see Bush fail?

Jim Dandy: THANK YOU!

anastasia: You are still not completely understanding what happened.... Nobody ever lied... we had no idea that Saddam had destroyed all his WMDs until we went in there and found that out... we asked him over and over to show us some sort of evidence that he didnt have any anymore and he refused!

I personally didnt need any WMD card to support our going in there, but I know for many that was the actual tipping point... but why once we are already there would you prefer failure over victory just because you hate Bush, it is beyond me, and why you can now complain that Rush doesnt want Obamas plan for socialism to succeed????

Czuch: So,you think Democrats wanted to leave Iraq to make Bush look bad,and not due to the thousands of lives being lost after it was determined the initial threat and reason for war was false? GOOD GOD

Jim Dandy:I think some thought like that...

But once we were already there, and had toppled saddam and his regime, then leaving would have meant way more headaches...

I can see where people would not want to have our troops fight unless there is some imminent danger to our country, but once we have made that decision, and we are voted in there and we topple the existing government, then what, just pull out?

Czuch: And may I add,it wasn't just Democrats who wanted to leave Iraq...............I think there were other options available once it was determined to be bad judgement.Other nations might have been agreeable to a different direction,and helped stabalize the situation.........it just always seemed to me like a gambler who had blown their money,but kept doubling up the bets to recoup what they originally arrived at the casino with.Where's the Iraq oil money that was supposed to help in the operation? Think of all the billions spent in Iraq that would be so valuable now

Jim Dandy:
Where's the Iraq oil money that was supposed to help in the operation? Think of all the billions spent in Iraq that would be so valuable now


I have always thought there would be some sort of "war dividend" and maybe we still will, out of everything, it would be the lack of repayment from their oil revenues that would piss me off more than any WMD or anything like that ever could. I always assumed that would be a given, that after we liberate them, at some point when they are back on their feet, they would repay us (at least monetarily) for our efforts? hahah, if they dont want to pay us back for giving them their freedom, then I would be in favor of blowing them back to dictatorship status!!!

Jim Dandy: Its kinda like these bailout efforts we are paying for right now... its supposed to be loans with interest etc, but I fear some point down the road we will let them off the hook for all that as well!

Czuch: I personally think you can kiss any return on your investment goodbye.I'm not even sure the Iraqi govt is in your corner as much as has been depicted by the BUSH tenure.If I put myself in the position of someone who to this day supports the whole Iraq experience,I'd be mad as hell at there luke warm support.Didn't they recently state the USA would not get preferential treatment in the oil contracts? for that alone I'd send them back to the stonage

I believe the car industry needs help - but this just shows how the people running these companies have NO IDEA of how to run a company.

http://consumerist.com/5137457/chrysler-buys-ads-thanking-you-for-tax-money-you-get-pissed-chrysler-censors-you

Artful Dodger: and I stand by mine as well! he was being a jackass by joking about it while our men and women are over there DYING...do GET THAT!!!?? PEOPLE ARE DEAD and he was making JOKES!
I don't care WHO YOU ARE you DO NOT joke about THAT! it's sick! and if you think it's ok then YOU ARE SICKER!

Artful Dodger: what? that people are dying or he was making jokes about it?

Artful Dodger: It was at that press club roast, 4 1/2 years ago, the same one that Obama and McCain did a couple of months ago

Artful Dodger: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKX6luiMINQ

I said he was joking about the weapons not being found WHILE people are over there dying

Artful Dodger: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKX6luiMINQ

the video distorts the mood,by adding things that were not at the roast but the jokes were,
personally I have no problem with them and I'll bet most army personal would'nt have a problem with the actual jokes

anastasia: You said, "PEOPLE ARE DEAD and he was making JOKES!
I don't care WHO YOU ARE you DO NOT joke about THAT! it's sick! and if you think it's ok then YOU ARE SICKER!"

This makes me believe that he was making jokes about people being dead.

Vikings:You have got to be kidding.  Anyone who finds that in bad taste or not funny has either no brain or no sense or humor (or both).  And now that I see this "evidence" I can only say that those behind such nonsense (probably democrats and other liberal nuts) are dumber than rocks.  (with apologies to rocks).

Artful Dodger: now YOU are the one deliberatly twisting things and you know you are......wow,such a good person you are AD...good person indeed.
Make ya feel good to call people dumb and spineless? make yourself feel bigger and better??

anastasia:YOu are seriously misguided if you characterize that press dinner and the jokes that were told with Bush seriously laughing at the fact that WMD's were not found (and you DID link that to people dying).  You didn't come up with that on your own, you listen to other left wing nuts who convinced you that Bush was laughing while others were dying.  (your words).

It's propaganda Anastasia and you need to learn to think for yourself instead of being spoon fed left wing propaganda. 

It's a PRESS CORE dinner.  They are supposed to make jokes about the headlines.  Bush's comments were FUNNY.  The press and the electronic media went on and on and on about WMDs.  The democrats, after supporting the war, turned their backs on America and started the same chant.  Bush was under enormous pressure because WMSs were never found.  So then they liberals began claiming that he lied about there being WMDs blah blah blah.....

I'll tell you what's despicable.   It's despicable that people would USE those that gave their lives to once again, besmirch a sitting President.  What sad isn't that Bush made jokes at a Press Dinner (which is what ALL presidents have done at the Press Dinner) but what's sad is that liberal left wing loons have tried to make a political statement on the blood of American servicemen and women.  Get a grip.

Artful Dodger: you get a grip..always babbling on and on and on how YOU are right and everyone else,excpet chuckie boy are wrong..always correcting people for what YOU think is a wrong opinion...because it isn't YOUR opinion....everyone IYO is a right winged nut if they don't agree with you...God you are such a judgemental person. you act like your not,but you are.

anastasia:I didn't say right-wing nuts.  I said left-wing.  There's a difference.

In the news today is a story about a military photo journalist who took a picture of a US soldier cradling a young Iraqi girl.  The girl was severely hurt by a bomb. The soldier was carrying the girl to get medical help.  He was clearly comforting her.

Michael Moore, the left-wing's poster boy for spineless, gutless, dumber-than-rocks democrats, ran across the picture and posted it on his website.  Moore passed the picture off as just another example of how the US military is killing children.  The child in the photo had later died of her wounds.

And all the left-wing, spineless and brainless twits cried out against the US and it's war policies.

But there was a problem.  Moore used the photo without the permission of the Journalist for one.  For two, Moore used the photo as propaganda.  In short, Moore lied.  He used the death of this little girl to once again besmirch Bush and the war in Iraq.

But, the Photo Journalist testified that in fact, the US soldier found the girl after an enemy roadside bomb went off.  The girl was killed by terrorists. 

This is what people like you fall for.  You read about some event and jump to the conclusion that it's true.  Case in point, your claim that Bush made fun of people dying in Iraq.

Your claim is not only false, it's a deliberate lie.  And you fell for it.  Just like all the readers of Michael Moore's website, you fell for a lie. A distortion.  And clear thinking people, like myself, see right through such things.

anastasia:

chuckie boy

??????

Czuch:Czuch, we need to clear up the air, you and I don't always agree do we. 

Artful Dodger: Hardly... but if we have to split hairs, you and i are closer than jews and the Holocaust...

The atmosphere on this board is heading in the wrong direction. It is starting to turn into personal attacks. "Attack" is a bit strong, but that is the direction it appears to be heading, and it needs to not head that way.

Czuch: sorry hun,trully I am,lol...I had my feathers ruffled,not a good day and then he comes on and starts with calling people stupid and spineless...I guess I just got a bit upset...didn't mean to drag you into it

rod03801: Rod, i totally respect you and I kind of understand where you are coming from.... but to be honest, this is something that will work itself out and will blow over, and even though you are a global, you are not a moderator here, and for that matter, you have posted once or twice at the most before?

Unless someone has contacted you in a pm and requested you to step in here.... I would personally want you to let this play its course.. we are all adults, and like I said, if nobody has requested your intervention, then dont assume we need you...

Artful Dodger: This is what people like you fall for. ...
Glad you know me sooo intimatly to know what I believe and what I don't believe
I have NEVER thought he was making fun of people dying..and if my wording of what I said was leading you to believe that...that was NOT my intention.....my intention was to say he was joking about not finding the bombs....WHILE people were over the dying,and I feel that is in poor taste.

Czuch: I agree with Rod...it IS starting to turn personal.
I was just telling someone the other day that even tho we get upset and go back and forth a bit that everyone keeps an overall friendly tone and it never gets down to a personal level...feels like that is starting to change.

Czuch: I stand by what I said. I don't need to be invited, thank you.

kinda hard to moderate a board of this nature and participate in the most times heated discussion of left versus right.

rod03801: Rod, I know you dont need to be invited, but I would personally feel better if you were an active member here.... do you really read every single message here?

If yes, then I dont have any problem with you being the strong arm.... my main concern is if you read one small portion and then try to moderate based on that, but if you are a regular reader, I have no problem accepting your judgment!

Czuch:lol

Bwild: I agree with you, which is why this board is watched so closely. The "atmosphere" has been totally acceptable up until today. And I'm not saying it has necessarily gone too far over the line, but it is heading that direction, and I want to stop it before it does.

If people want a "no holds barred" conversation, then I guess it needs to be in a fellowship. On the public boards, there WILL be moderation.

But let's go back to what this board is for.

Let's all just keep this in mind, and go back to the usual topics.

Czuch: How about it comes from me, I back Rod up on this, and I post a bit more often

Czuch: Actually, I read every single post on every public board, so the answer is yes. And I DO follow this board especially closely.

Again, this doesn't need to be debated, it really isn't the subject of the board. It can be continued in PM if you so desire. Not EVERYTHING needs to be debated.

Czuch: which is why this board is watched so closely.
ohhh,they watch us!! is that good or bad,lol!! I feel so naughty now,like we have our very own peeping tom's!

anastasia:

Vikings: LMAO!

Vikings: well, my first inclination.. is yes, but then i remember that i forgot that you are a global now too!!!

So now I wonder why Rod had to upsatge you???

hhahahah just kidding!!!!

Point is, even though this is a public board, there is a very small percentage of people here who actaully read here, much less post, so who is being protected, isnt that the real reason to moderate?

Czuch: First of all, he didn't upstage me, I had to go and give my support to China at Wallyworld.(there now it is on topic)
second, this is the third most read board right now
third, all public boards are monitored as close as possible to stop mainly flaming from escalating and crossing over to other boards (remember what it was like before globs?)

Vikings: WOW!!! Third most read board??? And those losers on gen chat said we would be a dead board... hahahah


Anywho, just dont start to over moderate, and I dont care, i see the point so far, but you know me.. I will protect free speech to thew hilt, but right now i dont see anybody getting victimized to the point where globals need to... but anyway, i think the message has been load and clear..

Vikings:

remember what it was like before globs?)


hahhhah, yeah it was really fun .....

Czuch: I think they maybe just wanted us to KNOW they were peeping toms...I mean watching us...I MEAN moderating us....from a distance * sings that last part to you guys like Bette Midler*

I think likely the board moderator would have stepped in before things got too heated.  A little heat in a debate is good for the blood.    As for personal attacks, hmmmm, I have no idea what is meant by that and I'm not going to try to read minds.    

ah dear....it is good to see you all so GAY, oh and happy too ROFLMBO

Bernice:So what is the news your way regarding the Obama election?

it is all good here LOL....they have showed him re-taking the oath time and time again so we are in no doubt as to who is pres. LOL

He is getting a great reception from the australian people, because Bush was so hated, but saying that it is still early days isn't it.

Bernice:Yeah, they loved Bush in the beginning too.   I suspect this administration will be different.  Obama knows how to adapt to the political climate and he already has.  When in Chicago, do as is expected.  Check out the landscape and play according to the rules.

Bush was very different.  He didn't care what the world thought of him personally.  His goal was to secure the US from further terrorist attacks.  And he did just that.  No domestic attacks and for that, the American people can thank him.  

I personally think Australia should be so thankful (not because of Bush)...even with our "alliance" with the USA there hasn't been an attack and we thought we would be in line for one or more for sure.....we surely are a lucky country :)