aberann: Dude, a 1300 rated player? You should lose points for it being such a close game!

WhiteTower: Having a block on the 4 point can be very useful if you're behind. In fact a block on the 7 point can be annoying if your opponent is trying to jump over it to get home.

It all depends on how far behind in the race you are.

I didn't understand the part about being Greek.

WhiteTower: There are too many variables to answer that in all cases, but in general keeping an anchor (2 on the same bar in your opponents base) means you are putting yourself at risk of being gammoned in exchange for a chance of winning, so you would do it only if losing the race.

If you're losing you would run a piece only if you were trying to save a gammon (say you were 4-0 up in a 5 point match), otherwise try to keep the anchor and build your own prime up forward.

Hrqls: 6 points. Obviously no opponents pieces had been borne off or a gammon would not have been "obvious".

Fencer: :) I understand how the site works, having written similar, i clicked back to see if it was my eyes playing tricks on me.

alanback: it's 2-1 now. however I clicked back and could clearly see 4-2.
My opponent rolled 1-1 and that is clear all the time.

At no time had either of us rolled 4-2, yet I can still see it in an old window.

Ok, I finally confirmed something that's been bothering me for a while. I see my dice roll and click accordingly only to find the dice have changed after I click.

This time I thought to click "back" on the browser and sure enough I had a 4-2 that had changed to a 2-1 after clicking.

Anyone else notice that?

Fencer, this is the game
http://brainking.com/en/ShowGame?g=1178279

I'm looking at it now with 4-2 as the roll, but if I try and do anything it changes to 2-1

playBunny: I wish someone would do it against me, how do you guys scare your opponents into this kind of mistake?

skipinnz: you can't lose six points if the cube was at one.

skipinnz: I assume the cube was at 2 points and you were stuck in your opponents home? If so surely you were in danger of being backgammoned. In this case how come you didn't try to avoid the backgammon? Did you think resigning would be a good way to avoid it?

Losing 2 points in this situation is only possible once you start bearing off. This is fundamental to the game.

skipinnz: If you hadn't borne and pieces off yet, how come you thought you could resign without losing 2 points?

WhiteTower: It's a basic part of the game which you cannot ignore under any circumstance.

I don't understand what you mean by "just for fun". The only reason I play here is fun. I wouldn't have fun if I ignored half the rules though.

WhiteTower: What I mean is, if you haven't avoided the gammon yet, and you think that resigning will lose you a single point, technically you would be cheating by resigning.

It should be very obvious that you will lose 2 points if you haven't borne off yet.

playBunny: Whether or not there's a warning, it strikes me as a little foolish to expect to be able to resign a single point game and lose a single point before bearing any pieces off.

Anybody who understands the game at all would have tried avouding the gammon (or backgammon) before resigning.

playBunny: Total games played makes a difference as well wouldn't it?

Is the average, the average of all players? I'm surprised at how high they are, particularly backgammon.

Pedro Martínez: I agree, I only meant the early moves. I got bored quickly. I think it would be better over a real board where you can get to the point more quickly.
I used to play Acey Deucey, which is essentially the same but with a 2-1 bonus :)

BIG BAD WOLF: But if it's obvious which strategy to use (depending on the roll) there is less skill. I found in BG race that for much of the early game I didn't need to think. That isn't true in other forms of the game.

One way to tell would be to see how bunched up the ratings are. If you did some sort of analysis you could actually be quite sure. The more bunched up the more luck.

Crowded Backgammon seems to be less bunched than the others. I haven't the time to analyze too closely though.

redsales: For example, if I invented a game where you just raced pieces around the board with no capturing, it wouldn't matter how long the game was, it would always be 100% luck.

Therefore the type of decisions that need to be made by the player is also an important factor.

redsales: Possibly true, but in much of the early part of the game there are not the same type of decisions to make as there are straight away in backgammon.

playBunny:

Hyper Backgammon
Backgammon Race
Nackgammon = Backgammon
Crowded Backgammon

playBunny: Quite right.

Andersp: Ok, we were talking about the score. You went back to the resignation warning. :)

9 poäng match med dubblingskub (#2)
Turnering: South Pacific Cube Backgammon
Partiets ID-nr: 1152741, Matchens ID-nr: 37576
Din ändrade BKR efter detta spel: vinst: 2213 (+5), remi/oavgjort: 2205 (-3), förlust: 2198 (-10)
Det är imsoaddicteds tur.
Ställning: grenv: 1.0, imsoaddicted: 0.0
Resultat av avslutade spel (imsoaddicted - grenv, Backgammon): 0 : 0 (= 0)
Tid per drag (?): 2 dagar, This was red -->inga fria dagar (4. November 2005, 10:13:58 är sista tidpunkten för draget innan timeout)
Offentligt spel (synligt för andra spelare)
Rankat spel (resultatet kommer att räknas i spelarens BKR)
Brädesstorlek: 1 (ändra)
Layout: kolumner (ändra)
Fria dagar: Lördag och Söndag (ändra)
Din motståndare utnyttjar automatisk semester (?)

Andersp: Not when I tried it.

playBunny: No, put it in big writing above the board please. It is so often used in strategy that I believe it is almost as important as what position the pieces are on the board.

playBunny: Actually it's quite clear and bold. I suggest reading bold text before clicking.

Hrqls: It does, but I think it only tells you if the points gained by the opponent is greater then one.

alanback: I know, he clearly stated in the question that both players had borne off.

Hrqls: On this site at this time, 32 is the max. This is becayuse 21 is the biggest match, so if the game is worth 32 neither player will get the choice to double any further.

Your question really only matters when gambling is involved.

Resign button resigns the current game only, so in your example you would be 4-0 down after resigning.

BerniceC: It was a bug. In the past you would move 3-1 then realize that 4 was impossible and would need to play 16-10 instead if you both saw it and were honest. Unfotunately many players missed such moves and therefore played illegally.

BerniceC: 16-10 is the only available move

BerniceC: Yes. If you make that move you won't be able to move 4

WhiteTower: Nonsense, there are hundreds of machines in a casino, many being played continually throughout the day.

In a 24 hour period the confidence interval is so small that the house is guaranteed a profit. it is an unkown profit, but it could be for instance somewhere between 95% and 98% payout, but over a month it will be very close to a predictable number.

redsales: They are programmed to be random. The randomness ensures a certain %age to the owners. It is not a programmed %age in the sense you mean, it is a result of the mathematical certainty that over the long run the payout will approach the programmed number.

This is precisely how craps works, despite fair dice (in most casinos)

redsales: on the contrary, this doesn't change the odds. In other words if you play more (hence put more money in) you have more chance of winning - this is expected in random games.

I quote the article you linked to:
'A machine is never "due to hit". The payback percentage and hit frequency are calculated over the long term.'

skipinnz: If the score was 4-1 (since 4-0 would have to be crawford round) and you doubled me in the position you described, I'd accept and redouble you back. This is because there is a theoretical chance that i'd win.

As soon as winning was impossible I would resign. That is the step most players here miss. I too get really annoyed when I have to keep rolling when the outcome is already decided.

skipinnz: I don't understand your position. If my opponent was one point from winning and doubled me I would accept since declining would mean losing the match.

If I couldn't win mathematically then my opponent doesn't need to double me to end the game, I would simply resign.

So what is the problem you would solve with allowing a double?

alanback: I think the match score should be above the board and in large writing.

Fencer: Fair enough. i'll keep deleting them then! :)

I would like to propose that a cube match be treated as a single game. In other words don't send me a message telling me I won a game worth 2 points etc (request to Fencer), and players needn't feel they need to say gg and gl etc at the end or start of each game (request to opponents)

What do people think?

playBunny: It's like those sad sports fans who think their team is due for a win... every week. And when they finally win they say "see, i said they were due!"
lol

So did we kill the issue of odds changing? One dice roll does not influence another etc. However I do think that "roll" should be replaced with "pass" in the case mentioned. That would technically NOT be autopass would it?

playBunny: Accept and Reject is what I've used my whole backgammon life. Drop doesn't make sense.
Why not change "check" to "I can take your king next turn" ?

alanback: I think it is perfect information. I know exactly where everything is as well as all future possible outcomes and their probabilities.

Andersp: It's not a bug, it's a feature!

In fact I've seen some very strange behaviour.

I doubled one opponent when I had only a few pieces left and he still hadn't borne any off (but there was no way I could gammon him, before anyone asks).

Not only did he accept but doubled me right back next turn to make it an 8 point game (in a 7 point match). Of course I won easily.

I urge people to read and understand the rules. Ask for clarification here if necessary.

Rose: It's quite simple. The object is to get to some number of points, for example 9.

Games are worth 1 point each to start with.

If you get doubled and accept, the game is worth 2 points, meaning whoever wins gets 2 points.

If you reject the double your opponent will win the game but get only 1 point.

Once you accept the double, ONLY YOU can double again. In this example you would be doubling the game value to 4, and if your opponent rejects you would win the game and get 2 points.

SueQ: I agree, in big bold and colored writing.

Also I'd like to see the current score in the tournament screen (instead of a dash if the match isn't over yet), kind of like the team tournaments.

alanback: Nonsense, perhaps you need a lesson in English?