Übergeek 바둑이: It's odd that there is so much talk about water boarding even though it's only been used on the hardest of terrorists and only when the situation was somewhat desperate. And only three times and none since 2003. It seems to me that a great deal of though and care went into the use of this technique. It wasn't used as a matter of routine.

As for Iraq: I am troubled at the loss of life. Whenever civilians die it's sad. To be fair, the US does not blindly bomb. The US does not target civilians and is not careless when going after military targets.

When mistakes happen, it does not reflect the totality of the US armed forces. Most positive stories are never told. Only those that will help get ratings make it to prime time.

In hind sight, going into Iraq does seem to have been a mistake. With the exception that Saddam was a murderer of his own people, he wasn't more of a threat than most. But the once the US entered Iraq and was involved in the think of it, chatting about shoulds and shouldn'ts seem moot. Where do we go from here.

The US gets demonized too often. Even the current president apologizes for the US. Never mind the years of money and blood that this noble country has offered the world since it's inception.

I think that the best that can come of any of this fight against terrorism is to ask what we have learned and where do we go from here.

Time will tell if Iraq was fully a mistake. But lets be fair: many positive things came about because the US stood up to a tyrant.

Artful Dodger: Hopefully yes. Hopefully it'll end the use of tyrants and the like by other country's, as those who would use 'evil' people will realise that it will end up biting you in the butt later.

eg... Iran is so annoyed with the west due it's people being killed by WMD supplied by the west. Now that mess is haunting the world and will for many years.

This is not 'demonising' but being honest of the results of actions that were flawed and irresponsible.

(V): Where do you stand on the issue of Iran, and giving them help producing nuclear materials?

Übergeek 바둑이: does anyone know how many people have been killed in Iraq?




Maybe you will tell us? I dont believe that the civilian toll dead at the direct hands of US military(coalition of the willing) is as high as you might believe.

Übergeek 바둑이: Iraq is no better than Vietnam was.




What exactly does that mean?


I have already given my first hand account from Vietnam, 2 decades later.... but a quick recap is that it was all good

Übergeek 바둑이: So, are we really better than he was?

Yes....