grenv: ah ok .. i guess i am in a defensive mood today ... right now i would be terrified by the idea of being closed in by a block over 19,20,21 :)

I thought that the only thing worse that hypergammon would be hypergammon with the cube. But I just started playing some cube matches, and I love it!

alanback: ditto, it's much better with the cube. And my rating skyrocketted since it's introduction ;)

Jim Dandy, Vikings: Not being redundant, Jim, because only you can give your opinion. Just that it was in the wrong place.

I and Walter Montego both agree with you both that non-cube matches should have gammons. Well, N-wins matches shouldn't but N-points matches should. So the votes have gone up.

Here's where the last of that conversation occurred..

(and my apologies, it was 2 days ago)

Does anyone here ever play the ancient Egyptian board game called Senet? It may be the earliest version of backgammon ever found. I'm looking for people interested in senet or those who play Senet too.

DragonKing: I've played it a while back. Had it on my PC but lost it in a crash. Very fun game too!

Rose: Do you remember what program it was? I have 2 simple software programs, but I would like to find one a bit more challenging if such a thing exits. I really enjot this game as well. Seems like a good mix of skill and luck!

DragonKing: Just called Senet deluxe.. you can likely find a download online

DragonKing: What programs do you have?

I've just tried P.S. Neeley's Windows version and it's quite fun.

playBunny: I have one from a site called Terry's Egyptian page and one from a museum site called "The Challenge." For some reason I cannot get Senet Deluxe to load on my computer- but I'm still trying! (I found these by using "senet" in a Google search.) I should warn everyone that the rules vary WIDELY between different versions of this game! What I like about it- is that there is a combination of luck and strategy. This is making me want to learn to play Backgammon again!

DragonKing: I've just been googling Deluxe myself and all I can find are Palm OS versions for the Palm PDA. Could that be the problem you're having?

playBunny: The version I have is a free download for PCs I believe. Isn't that what Rose was talking about? (I'm not really a computer person- so I"m not sure I undretsand your question.) The version I have keeps trying to load with Adobe reader but an error message tells me it's not supported by Adobe.

DragonKing: What's the link?

I'm trying the one from Terry's Egyptian pages. It's hugely different to the P.S. Neeley's one. "Rules vary WIDELY" is true - same board but a completely different game!

playBunny: It seems that the game was "lost to history" until Carter found King Tut's tomb in 1922- so the various rules are the result of educated guesses. I am trying to follow Kendall's rules with some modifications- (I made a homemade board while I'm waiting for one to come in the mail.)

DragonKing: Having played them both a bit, the Neeley one has a Hypergammon feel. Fast action (once you're on the board), simple strategy, limited blocking and lots of blot hitting. The Terry's one has more the feel of Crazy Narde, what with the list of "dice" rolls that you get to play with, there being so many pieces on the board and the amount of blocking that can be done.

playBunny: I have downloaded GNU backgammon shareware program off the net- I haven't tried it yet to see if I got it- BUT is that an ok program for me to learn the game? Is there another you would recommend over GNU? I just want to learn the basics- but, I prefer a good competitive program to learn from....

DragonKing: GnuBg is what I use. It's the strongest in the world per $, lol. It also beats almost everything that you'd pay $ for.

Set evaluation and analysis to 2-ply (ie. Supremo) and it'll give you a good fight.

Small tip. Whenever you change any settings in the program, they are only temporary changes unless you use the Settings/Save Settings menu option. It's a pain in the bum when you forget, especially if you've been creating a beautiful 3D board setup and exit without saving. :-/

playBunny: Tahnk you. I will try that. I have already noticed the change of the setting. May I ask you questions about this program as I go along?

DragonKing: For sure. You might also want to have a read of this GnuBg Tutorial. It was written in 2003 but much still applies.

playBunny: Ok Is there a website that has records of backgammon games to study? And is there a way to set up GNU to play through teaching games? The program is working fine- but it beats me soundly and quickly, so if I could play some sample games I could get better quicker. I also see where I can set up the program to give me hints- that will help too. Thank you for all the advice! It has been a great help.

7 games very well commented by 2 expert players!

Download BGBlitz
Then even if you do not buy it, you can use it to show some very good tests you can download on the same page and use it with BGBlitz. They contain analysis and often annotations for each move and why it's bad/good to play etc....
Note that BGBlitz 1.9.5 is a top program at the level of GNUBG 0.14 but i think GNUBG is a little better....


What is the best way to become better at Backgammon?

4th) Stop fearing to leave a checker alone! :-)

3d) Learn the opening rolls and their main replies....

2nd) Study games and positions like the above i gave....Not too hard, not too lazy. Don't try in any case to memorize the position so you would have something to compare! Never! Just try to understand the reasons why each move is better or not....

1st) Play hundrends of games against Jellyfish 3.5, or Snowie 4.0 or later, or GNUBG 0.14, or BGBlitz 1.9 or later. But while playing these games you should open your brain and accept the knowledge you gain and learn from the games.

Please to excuse SueQ.

Backgammon Prize - Big Sisters and Little Brothers
6 month Brainrook to the winner.

To celebrate the reuniting of an estranged brother and sister...
smelly socks and Kambala

http://brainking.com/en/Tournaments?trg=13904&tri=87765&trnst=0

This is a prize tournament my husband and I are proud to endorse. Luck to everybody.

Thank you

panda: How wonderful! Congrats to smelly socks and Kambala. Little brothers are A-OK most of the time.

I don't know of anywhere that you can download GnuBg games which contain comments. It's certainly possible to make them, I just don't think anyone's done so.

Create a Backgammon favourites folder and save these. Some of the quzzes will be more relevant to you in due course.

Matches
gammoned.com - Expert Matches
Backgammon Galore - Kit Woolsey vs. Jeremy Bagai (same link as Pythagoras' 7-ganmes)
GammOnLine - World Cup Match #1 and other stuff

Quizzes
Backgammon Blunder of the Week
Ed's Backgammon Problems
Webby's Backgammon Quiz
Danish BG Fed Forum Quiz
Backgammon Brainbusters
Backgammon Problems

playBunny: these links are great! thanks!

(s-q/bbw: is it possible to put (a selection of) those links on top of this board?)

Hrqls, Sue, BBW: It's nice to have these links available but, please, don't clutter the top of the board with them.

It's better to do what I did with the Japanese Chess board and appropriate one of the messages as a resources area. I've done just that with one of my old messages .. http://brainking.com/en/Board?bc=26&ngi=342190 .. so you could add that link to the board header. I've only just created it so it only has what we've just been talking about. If anyone has links that they'd like me to add to it then send me a PM or post them here.

playBunny: *nod* thats a better idea indeed :)

Hrqls:

playBunny and Hrqls: DONE...great idea.

SueQ: That is great!

Can anyone tell me- is there a way to set up GNU (or any of the free on line programs) to play through a game record? Go over a pro game for example? I thought i knew how by setting it to human vs human but it does not appear to be working. AND if I set the dice to manual- what do I do after that? I get that chart of all the various dice faces-but how do I use that? Thank you for all the advice everyone!

DragonKing: That dice chart's an easy one to answer. Click it!

What isn't so obvious is where to click. If it's white to move then click whichever pair of dice you want. If you're creating a new match or starting a new game then it matters which pair of dice you click. If you want to be the one starting tha game then click the lower and leftmost dice that gives you the number you want, ie. below the doubles. If GnuBg is to start then click the same combination but in the top left half, ie. above the doubles. for instance, clicking 2-4 will mean you start while clicking 4-2 will have GnuBg starting.

If by "playing through a game record" you mean manually entering the moves ... the human vs human should do the job just fine when you create a new match. If it's not working I don't know why. What does it do/not do?

playBunny: I guess I don't undretsand what manuel dice means- do I throw dice here and then enter what the rolls was? If that is true- do I do the same for the rolls from the game or match I'm studying? In other words- player one in the game I'm looking at rolled a 5-3. How do I enter that to GNU so that I move the checkers to the points that were used in the game? Sorry to be so slow at understand this....

DragonKing: Ok I'm replying to my own message. The info you gave me on the dice worked- I got everything to work- I just need to know how to double and how to enter NO PLAY if that is in the game record I'm looking at.... This is great so far! Thanks!

DragonKing: You can double from the Game menu or using <Ctrl-D>. I don't do either of those - I just click the doubling cube, lolol. You can also click it to accept a double when it's offered. Decline by using the icon on the toolbar.

If the game you're following shows no play then enter the dice and gnuBg will tell you that it's no play. ;-) If you don't know the dice - such as with the game records here :-, :-/, :-(( - then just make up a dice roll that you know won't work.

playBunny: Without having time to read the conversation here do you know 2 ways of forcing GNUBG to play after you set up a position with GNUBG to play?

Pythagoras: I'm not sure what you mean by "force it to play". Play it's own moves, play both players, one player when both are human? There's always the Hint button, after which you can make the best move suggested.

Grrr i thought it was damn obvious. Suppose you want to set up a position with GNUBG to play from it. And then would be your turn to play, etc....
So you set up a position with the dice on GNUBG's board and finish editing. So now i ask if you know 2 ways of doing that.....? I know one but i hate this way so i thought you might know any better way.....

Why am I not allowed to double in a 5 game match down 0-2?

Czuch: That's a good question. Here's another one. Why are we not given a link so that we can know what you're talking about?

http://brainking.com/en/ShowGame?g=1404368

Czuch Chuckers: cant see anything weird .. i think you should be able to double ?

Czuch Chuckers: Is there anything about not being able to double on the first move?

Czuch Chuckers: ah! could be, i noticed before that i have to make 1 move first before i am given the option to double .. i am not sure if its a standard rule for backgammon, but it seems to be that way on here

Any thoughts on a play of 12 to 17 and 19 to 20?

Czuch Chuckers: i usually play 12-17 and 24-23 .... i am too chicken to place a single on 19 right away :)

Hrqls: I tried it, and my opponents next roll had a 4 and could have hit me, but they chose not to! I am not sure if they had sound reason or if they thought I wanted them to hit me so they didnt. L.

But there are many rolls where my opponent will have to leave one open as well if they hit me....

Czuch, Hrqls: "i noticed before that i have to make 1 move first before i am given the option to double"

"You" being the first player to move rather than the second player making your first move. Yes, that's correct.

"i am not sure if its a standard rule for backgammon, but it seems to be that way on here"

Yep, it's a standard Backgammon rule. The choice of doubling must be made before the dice are rolled (too much advantage otherwise) and for the game's opening move the dice have already been rolled to determine who starts.

playBunny: So on brainking the two opponents each roll one die with the highest roll going first and using the two die that were already rolled?

So you can never get a double on the first turn?