gogul: How would you calculate a move speed?

Fencer: Some sugestions:
moves per day in the form of a percentile.

I.E. player x is within the botom 20% of players gets a 2

Fencer: From the moment a player gets a game ready to play until he moves, if we had next to the amount of games in eaches profile the average of 'moving speed' given in hours of the say past 7 days. No idea how to compute it but maybe the timecontrol can recognize this as well.
I can not see further as just the information of the average time someone takes to move, I think there is no need to calculate upon a formula to invent containing the amount of games and the time one takes to move, people with a few games have this advantage but thats what fast players are searching for, and with my about 300 games going on I could compete with pawns I think, at least over the time of 7 days in lots of the weeks.

gogul: The disadvantage of that is that it makes European players appear to be slower movers. In matches of a European player vs an American, it will usually be the American player moves makes the "last move of the day", just because Americans trail Europeans in time. The European is then punished for the fact there's more time for him to wake up again, as there is for the American to wake up after the European.

I don't see the added value of this statistic - and I think it can lead to false interpretations.

AbigailII: In general, I've encountered the opposite. I often play late in the evenings and often find myself quitting to go to bed as my European (or Australian, or Japanese, or whatever... why're you limiting it to just US vs. EU?) opponent is just starting his/her move day.

jurek: The majority of the people here are from either the US or Europe. Yes, it benefits Europeans playing against Japanese people as well. And yes, there are exceptions of Americans playing very late against Europeans playing early. Although, they still both get punished as they will have little overlap in their playing times, and will only be able to play a move/day, although they are fast players.

AbigailII: Why not simply have a statistic with the average number of days between moves? Fast players willplay at least once a day,no matter the time zone they're in...

AbigailII: I agree, might lead to false interpretations. But what if there would be a 'move speed rating' as a further setting for tounaments (for each games separate?)?. As an organizer you could allow faster player to sign up only (this rating has not to be public info).

gogul: The idea of move speed is not criticizing "slow" players. Timesetting possibilities along with the vacationdays is ok as conditions to me, only to allow high speed based turned players to have their own games.

gogul: Well, if you agree that the proposed "how fast does one play" statistics can lead to false conclusions, than you must agree with me that "if there would be a 'move speed rating' as a further setting for tounaments" it would lead to the same wrong conclusions as well. People would be banned from tournaments because they recently played a lot of games againt people in just the wrong timezone. Or people might get frustrated that their tournament isn't fast because it has a mixture of of players from different timezone while the statistics weren't based on that. Or someone might change playing styles for whatever reason.

If you want a tournament with fast play, create one and use whatever time parameters you find acceptable. Don't allow or disallow people to enter because of some statistic that doesn't mean anything.

AbigailII:

AbigailII: I agrea. Most players here are not specifically fast or slow. Most will play within the time limits no mater how long or short they are. Set a time limit of a move a week and expect to see 1 move per week. Set a time limit of 1 move per day and expect to see a move every day.

Now it would be nice to be able to set time limits in the game filters. My schedual doesn't allow me to play less then 7 day games and I don't want to see any game with a limit of 7 days or be put in a team match of less then 7 days.

mctrivia: Problem is that 1 day limit means that some players will play exactly one move each day. This can drag on in itself, especially if most of the tournament is finished in a week, but one player keeps playing for months (which can easily happen if you play only one move a day).

I guess fischer clock set to about a week, with no extra time added, could suffice, as long as there are no vacations as well.

AbigailII: It's not a question to bann people from tournaments. You don't ban people from a tournament if you set for BRK higher or lower than something, do you? You set. And a stat which would allow a setting like time move is not thought-out yet, such a stat could be made fair and avoid many wrong conclusions made today (I don't complain). It would allow people who play more than one or two moves a day in average to play tournaments together but can't sing in in one day tournaments who knows why, because you're off the weekend or something. Playing fast has nothing to do with the timezone you live in I believe.

gogul: Ok, if you believe a fair stat is possible, I like to see how you would do it.

And I'm very curious why you believe it doesn't matter for the number of moves you can make per day/per game whether you're in the same time-zone as your opponent or 9 hours ahead.

AbigailII: you could think about categories instead of a rating, like normal, fast, very fast.
Fast would be one move a day (in average), very fast more than one move a day. Even living in a timezone of central China you could reach the veryfast category. I'm sure some really can join BK for a short quarter hour dayly only, I don't blame busy people for not making their moves here, in that case of course you wont reach a fast category. But someone who is here one or two hours almost dayly can easily reach the 'veryfast' category. How? You answer all your games once a day (makes you a fast player), now you have to hope that only one opponent moves back in the same session and answer that back too. From a certain amount of games (I guess 60, but certainly with 300) you'll be sure that this happens, in every timezone you can do this. And once you singed up for a tournament the system doesn't boot you, like you sing in for a tournament for players above 2000 but when it starts you might be below, that doesn't matter.

gogul: Only thing I can't answer is if the pool of 'veryfast' players would be big enough for organizing tournaments, maybe the veryfast category should already be the ones who answer all their games once a day in average.

gogul: i am a fast player (or at least not slow) in some type of games, but i am slower in other types

a way to determine speed of play would be to take the average time a game, after your opponent has moved, has to wait before you move

of course another reason (and probably more important than the timezone difference) for the wait is my sleeping time
(or any other reason why i am not online) .. this reason should be taken into account in the speed of play stat for sure
suppose i sleep 8 hours, work 9 hours (and cant play at work), take shower, dress, have dinner, etc. for another 3 hours, travel to and from work for 1 hour, then i have 3 hours left to play .. i might be a fast player then and move within the minute .. but i might still not be able to make all my moves as i 'only' have 3 hours

the reason for me to make little moves (although i might be fast) is just because of occupations in real life .. but its not of importance to your opponent why you are not there .. its important that you are not there

take the average waiting time for game while its your turn and you will have a decent speed-of-play-stat i think

Hrqls: This is what I suggested first, you put that in much better words.

Hrqls: here is the problem with average waiting time. There are some players on here that play over 1000 games that are very fast players. You can play a fisher clock game with them and have it done within an hour. But if you have a long time restriction your game goes to the end of there list so they don't play you as often. Such a person would show as a long average time were the oponent is waiting but any time you want to have a quick game they are perfectly capable of doing it.

Fencer: How about moves per game per day, averaged over a month?

kaluza: that would depend on your opponent's speed as well. If your opponent moves fast, you may move a dozen times in a game. If your opponent moves really slow, you may move oncea month!

pauloaguia: Not to mention that such a statistic doesn't mean much. Suppose I have 35 games going on, in 34 I move once a month, but in the other I move 30 times a day (perhaps because it's against a fast player in the same time-zone, or due to autopass, or because that's a simple game and the others aren't). My average would be more than one move/game/day. But would you want to pick me if you're looking for a fast game?

AbigailII: If you can move 30 times a day against a fast opponent, yes, I'd want to pick you

AbigailII: The only tome this stat will make you look slower than you actually are is if you finish all your moves and are therefore not moving because you can't.
Perhaps the primary stat could be "%age of time with no moves to make". Anyone with a very low (or zero) score here could be effectively judged by the moves/game/day stat.