Pedro Martínez:

Artful Dodger:  As a supporter of Obama generally, I agree he should not have been voted a nobel peace prize 1 month into his 1st term.  Having said that, however, I hope he gets more support for his multilateral approach to diplomacy..

Here is an article covering both sides of this issue.

http://www.goupstate.com/article/20091009/ARTICLES/910099987/1083/ARTICLES?Title=President-Barack-Obama-wins-Nobel-Peace-Prize-

Übergeek 바둑이: From what I read it seems that the Nobel panel were glad the USA have under Obama regained some sanity, and for a change .. admitted mistakes were made by the USA.

... A rogue USA is just as frightening as any rogue nuclear power. That Blair lied to stop the USA going alone speaks of the perceived consequence of such a problem.

All that changes is the wages o the profiteers, so they don't get the real change that is indeed happening. Do you actually #>$+%##€ think that wages of workers doubled as the all the f'#!|$> first class products. The hands that litteraly build up what you are sitting in?!!!?!?!?

Übergeek 바둑이: So if Obama goes back from where he started in Chicago he'll realize that nothing changes. Thank you.

All I can say is that if Henry Kissinger deserved the Nobel Peace Prize, then Obama for sure deserves it too.  At some point Ronald Reagan was nominated.  I am sure he deserved one too.  After all, the Nobel Prizes are as much about politics and reputation as they are about achievement.

it's the working cast who suffer.

(V): Yes

Hey they scare me. what ya working whom? and bang it's the scareface if it's pharmaceutical.

gogul: Sounds like a baroque version of the Minbari grey council from Babylon 5... The military and religious casts quite happy to fight.. but it's the working cast who suffer.

(V): I can explain. It's the psychological effect of the comassionless somehow satisfied two third whose brain switches to "ok everythings fine-mode". The left third works and struggles hard.

Pedro Martínez: In what way am I being dumb? Can you please explain how!!

(V): It makes one wonder if you're really that dumb or if you're just sitting there and having a blast over us …

Pedro Martínez: Stopping thee CIA torture business is one aspect. Things that make the USA and Western world hated rather then respected.

Ya know... the Islamic extremists use such things as recruitment propaganda.

Artful Dodger: Skipped church twice and still was nominated????? There can only be one explanation: Obama does not exist!

Artful Dodger: Loads of people got nominated.... If you know the math then you'll know it's 7 months since the nominations... and I kinda guess they have looked at the time since the nomination.

As for Obama not doing much in his first 12 days.. well that's nothing unusual. I believe Bush spent most of his time on holiday before 9/11 A great example of Republican dedication to the job. zzzzzzzz

(V): How on Earth is he reversing Bush's mistakes?

(V):  I know the math.  He did nothing to get nominated and he's done nothing to deserve such an award.  It makes a mockery of the true meaning of the award.  It has been made meaningless.  In his first 12 days, Obama basically went to a party, went to a few meetings, skipped church twice, release federal funding to pay for abortions in foreign countries, partied some more.  Oh yeah, that deserves a nomination for sure.

That's something this site seems to have to live with...

Artful Dodger: When nominated.... but the prize has just been awarded... Slight difference in time scale

(V):  He was in office 12 days when he was nominated.  The nominations closed on Feb 1.  He did nothing to even deserve a nomination let alone win.  It's a meaningless prize.

It is ugly boring, change has not happen yet, tons of blah blah and no action, but not even words to eliminish these ugly circumstances urgently now, mr. Obama has no need to be told what action has to happen immediatly.

Is this clooney post below a joke o what?!?

Artful Dodger: Unknown??? He's not Harold Saxon is he??

.... aka the master!!

(V):  Where has he lowered tensions?

Pedro Martínez: Why? He's lowered tensions that had been set up by Bush, he's working to lower atomics, which are an expensive waste of space and only encourages others to want to have such a playground toy.

Ok, he might not haver been on the world stage much (as Art mentions)... but he's reversing bad mistakes by the previous Republican admin and the CIA, who as such have made the world an unsafer place by their apparent total lack of rational thinking.

As for Nobel.. I don't think the man who invented Nitro glycerine (sp) would moan... 205 nominations and they choose him.. must have had some reason!!

Pedro Martínez:  I totally agree with you on this one.  It makes no sense to me.  Neither did giving it to Gore make sense.  There are more deserving candidates.  Obama has yet to prove himself.  He was an unknown last year and hasn't been in office long enough to make a significant difference in the world. 

(V): It's a spit in the face of those who have actually been fighting for peace and democracy. The Chinese dissenters, Havel, Betancourt, … Nobel must be rolling in his grave with Arafat, Gore and Obama having won the Peace Prize.

Pedro Martínez: Promoting international diplomacy and Nuclear disarmament . He must have been doing something right.... Both the Taliban and Fox News are slamming the award. The Taliban are calling him a murderer basically, Fox News are saying it's because the Nobel people have a thing about not liking ex President Bush.

What has Obama done to deserve the Nobel Prize? Any ideas?

Obama get Nobel peace prize and Nasa are going to crash a rocket into the moon.

.... And today the Queen leads a service to honour the soldiers who fought in the Iraqi war.

Übergeek 바둑이: Mmmm I might upset someone in saying what needs to be said..

.. stop behaving like kids... amongst other things.

The UN is hosting a video contest.

http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=CB987F15ABB65F79

It is being sponsored by George Clooney since he became a United Nations Ambassador for Peace in January of 2008.  For those interested here is the description of the contest.

Video Contest: If you had the opportunity to speak to the world leaders, what would you say?

Well,
here is your chance. Use your voice as a global citizen and tell these
leaders in a short video what you think needs to be done to make this
world a better and safer place. Be a Citizen Ambassador to the UN.

Guidelines:
1. Create your own video, no more than 3 minute duration, focusing on the subject of the contest.
2. Add English subtitles to videos in other languages.
3. Upload the video to your YouTube account.
4. Add it as a REPLY VIDEO to the video you are watching right now.
5. Deadline for submissions: 10 October 2009

Selection process:
1. The best 5 video entries will be selected by a committee based on compelling content, originality and creativity.
2.
The finalists will be designated Citizen Ambassadors, and will be
invited to United Nations Headquarters in New York on the occasion of
the 64th UN Day.
3. They will take a special guided tour of UN
Headquarters, have their photo taken with Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon
and receive VIP seating at the UN Day Concert, to be held on Friday 23
October 2009.

So go on, speak to the world. This is your chance to be a Citizen Ambassador to the UN.

Übergeek 바둑이: We've had a lot of cases of price fixing come to light over here. Another big example here was the charges for using or calling a mobile phone outside the UK. BAE being investigated over bribes (this is the 2nd time, the first the government interceded at a time of a big sale going through .. wasn't in the public interest we were told.. ie the embarrassment would cause the buyers to back out of the deal.

In some respects this where the EU does prove handy, the courts have got pro active on those who seek to rip off the public or ... by bribes force a competitor out of the market, or lower their ability to freely operate. We also have anti-monopolies laws to prevent a company cornering the market by the likes of mergers.

And yes, the real big boys don't like too much change. Yet I don't think they have much choice now, so many consumer groups out there

Ferris Bueller: Well, all I can say is that conservatism like the right fringe in the USA promotes as being "patriotic" would not be accepted at all by the Conservative party over here. The MEP who slammed the NHS (as one UK guy stated) .... who's heard of him before he got paid to be on Fox news.. and electorally wise. He will not get re-elected.

(V):  What you say is all true.  But, the point that stands out to me is that he is 1st Republican, to the best of my knowledge, to speak out against this lunatic fringe.  I'm sure he will get pummeled as a "traitor" from the shrill voices on the far right.

(V):

I think price fixing is a lot more common than the government or the business sector is willing to admit. It is not just energy but telephone, cable and cellular services. The prices are so similar that competition is basicly dead. The government turns a blind eye because it is politically and economically convenient, and private companies have greased enough hands to know that their cartels and monopolies are safe.

In some cases the government actually interferes with competition to save companies unable to compete. Here in North America car manufacturers get huge breaks from the government. Both the Canadian and American governments have imposed big tariffs against foreign auto makers to make sure that the local makers can compete. It is why European, Japanese and Korean cars are more expensive than American models. The government actually forms part of the price fixing and protectionistic schemes. In spite of that North American car makers have failed miserably and the governments here have given them money to keep them afloat.

Chinese, Indian and French car makers can't even sell their cars here. The government prohibits sale of those cars on "safety" concerns but the truth is that a $5000 car would spell the end of North American car makers. Canada makes an electrical car called the ZENN (Zero Emmisions No Noise, http://www.zenncars.com/). This is a fully electrical car. The Canadian government went so far as to protect the oil industry and the car makers by not allowing the sale of that vehicle in Canada. It has taken years of complaints from the public for the government here to allow the car to be sold.

If true competition existed, many companies would go under. In modern captalism competition is acceptable only when it is convenient tot he big monopolies and the elite that runs the capitalist system.

Ferris Bueller: He's being honest about the craziness of the right fringe, and being honest about those that within the USA want the country divided rather than one people.

He was right that America is at it's greatest when it's people are united rather than divided.. as the old saying goes, a whole is always better.

Übergeek 바둑이: Over here, the main gripe by people regarding private sector spin is that of our energy suppliers. Some years back it was decided that 'competition' would keep energy prices realistic, and so it was decided that OFGEM who regulate the energy industry would give up it's teeth on regulating prices.

.... Now, the six main energy companies are making record profits and even though wholesale prices have come down by 50%, retail prices do not show that drop. In fact... the big six prices are so similar that there is no competition.

Despite countrywide condemnation of this.. no-one has the power to enforce price cuts. Even the Conservatives admit that under the current regs, the prices will have to to a tribunal type affair.

No-one in the Government, OFGEM or the energy industry wanted to defend the situation face to face with annoyed customers on a program called "Watchdog". As such, an energy expert (a well respected one) confirmed the customers suspicions.

The energy companies are price fixing.

He may of risked his re-election in my state, but Sen. Graham left no stone unturned.  He managed to diss Limbaugh, Beck & the "birthers" in one sitting.  It's about time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zP_DMTbfbdE

(V):

Two days ago I saw Stephen Colbert in the Colbert Report. He trashed Washington politicians badly. He implied that politicians and the healthcare lobby are together "in the closet". He said that they should have some "pride" and "come out of the closed". It was hilarious, and he really got to the point.

Funny watching "The O'Reilly Factor" saying "NO SPIN" and then spinning two seconds later.

I just had to see

Ferris Bueller: True to a degree. But at the moment, he's getting bugged to show he's changing. Reports though say it's not him running the country.. he's losing his marbles... I believe If so then as a figurehead... what happens when he dies? Will the army be able to keep it together.

.. and when he does die.. will the other African states intervene??

(V):  I doubt it.  Despots like Mugabe manage to stay on there throwns regardless of outside pressure or how much their own people suffer.

Übergeek 바둑이: I don't think they will try to depose him.. I hope not. The press and international attention the country is getting is more apt to end his rule. Plus the pressure as much on and by his African neighbours is more likely to get him off his throne.

(V):

> I do expect a total 'no trade' will just force Mugabe into black market selling and buying

It is just as Saddam Hussein. Sanctions brough great suffering to the people of Iraq. It is estimated that about 1 million people died because Iraq could not buy adequate food or medicine for its people. The Oil for Food Program was corrupt and instead of helping it was just reinforcing Saddam's power. Black marketeers made a killing in Iraq, just as they do in Africa now. Sanctions are a political and economic failure. Mugabe will stay there as long as the people he rules refuse to depose him. Using force to depose him would just turn that country into another Iraq, and nobody wants that.

gogul: It's an animal thing.. to feel good at being rich.. to coin Riddick

It's taken over from the self satisfaction of just doing things. As the robbing of white farmers.. They did the robbing first. You would expect some problem after being a slave race almost for years. Just as in South Africa.

Mugabe won't last too much longer, and I do expect a total 'no trade' will just force Mugabe into black market selling and buying. I don't feel that due to the nature of such economics it is a good thing in terms of helping the problem within that country.

Übergeek 바둑이: The art of passing the buck is a well established tradition. Our 'modern society' is not so modern, just revamped with new names for the 'bosses'. Rome wasn't built in a day and neither was the Roman Church. The Protestant Church carried on that tradition an so to a degree have our government's and even businesses.

I think Nietzsche was just trying to do something that a certain Carpenter sought 2000 years ago. To show us what we were doing and how to escape it. Many have, and done good job's explaining the 'human' condition throughout history.

He was attacking tradition, and how we were (and still do through various institutions and businesses) forcing tradition's and belief's down throats rather then encourage free thinking. "Believe us not them or burn in hell", "Better dead then red", "Buy this or be behind the Jones's", etc.. etc...

How many temples do the money changers want??

Swiss foodmulti Nestlé takes milk from a dispossessed farm in Zimbabwe owned by Mugabes wife dispiting international sanctions. Nestlé, allocated in Switzerland feel not bound on EU and US sanctions against Mugabe, his family and his surrounding. Nestlé justifies it's engagement with the sorrow of the struggling population. The company "supports and respects international human rights". In vue of Mugabes ongoing terror and the robbing of 4500 white farmers an elusive claim.

Things like this, that's daily news in proper newspapers and over here we are used to know that. Money counts in these circles, it's for a sensitive public PR-machines get mobilised, there is no moral with Nestlé. These companies poach in foreign countries, this is big money Swiss. There are no philosophical or theological questions arising, the behaviour and output of companies of that kind is simply catastrophic. Just not for us, we seem to feel very good as rich..

(V):

> As for the master and slave classes, Nietzsche's arguments are a bit flawed
> and does not fully explain Judaic/Christain/Muslim concepts.

That is true. Nietzche wasnot able to explain everything fully, but I am not sure if that was his intent. I think that he merely tried to explain some general trends in western ethics and morality. He never saw the 20th century and how western society evolved. However, I think he makes valid points on how it is that people can do terrible things in the name of higher principles. He saw that contradiction in western society.

Übergeek 바둑이: Judaism calls it the two Yetzer's. One is the 'God' morality, the other that drives us to marry, have children.

It is not 'evil' as in the Greek sense, but if the second (referred in Egyptian religion as the lesser God) is not commanded by our own 'God' morality.. that's when what we call evil happens.

It is often that the lesser god (Yetzer ra) is called Satan, or the Devil.. this is just bad understanding and the ability to blame supernatural beings for our own failings. It was good in the old days (as one lady explained)... there wasn't much law. And such so called 'pagan' ideas helped control the population.. then religion got and abused it.
From a pure philosophy point... there is no such thing as good or bad.. there is what is.

As for the master and slave classes, Nietzsche's arguments are a bit flawed and does not fully explain Judaic/Christain/Muslim concepts.

But I'm not getting into that here... take about a dozen pages

Übergeek 바둑이: "On the other hand he gave $1 billion to charity."
can you say tax write off?