Sorry but when I saw this I laughed my head off...

Rita Mae Brown:

"If the world were a logical place, men would ride side saddle."

Artful Dodger: That is a matter of opinion, some of your ideas quite honestly would create more problems then solve them.

.... I mean, the destruction of the Palestinian people would cause a war in the middle east... and quite frankly Israel's only hope of survival after being Public enemy No.1 in both the the middle east and most of the world would be to use nukes.... And I think then even the USA would find it hard to justify supporting Israel.

And golly... An radio active middle east would not be good for the world as shortages and price increases would soon occur. Remember, we are reliant on oil. An analogy would be the Guild's (Dune the book) words "The spice must flowwwwwww".

They call it Mutually Assured Destruction or M.A.D. for short, commonly used to refer to the cold war and that both sides knew that there was no way to win in a nuclear war. All involved lose.

Czuch: Logic is good when it comes to computers, it is not always a successful answer when dealing with people, as you are dealing with a being, whether awake or asleep you are still dealing with a being who by the very nature of being a being is not a purely logical entity. If you (like I have) studied some statistics regarding error factors and such when it comes to the likes of polls, you'd know that the figures are not perfect. When it comes to humans you also have to consider that empirical experience will lead to people reacting in different ways, the weather, if they've had a bad day or not, financial problems, etc, etc, etc. Then there are the regional and country variations based on culture, education, peer pressure, genetics, etc, etc.

So to logically think about people and certain situations you'd have to keep this all in mind at the same time. Basically the only thing that can do that now is an Entity as we have not yet being able to create a machine with true AI.

As for gut, that's a good thing, following your beliefs whether correct or not is fine, but you must keep in mind that we are a developing creature by nature of our creation, we are not constant.

And btw Czuch.. I was talking about ALL politicians. You ought to watch Prime Ministers question time. It's like a game of who can show up someone the most half the time mixed with patting on the front.

Czuch: Are they? When I think I regarding a matter in which a person or people are involved I use my Intelligence, knowledge, wisdom and yes how I feel. Also if I don't know I'll ask someone or research using various search parameters to gain information from various people, including when needed professional organisations or in the case of a certain matter at home a government body for an explanation of the law and regulations regarding the subject at hand.

I also use reflective meditation techniques as a method of problem solving, which involve emptying the mind, which usually leads to several alternative possibilities regarding a matter of which one viable solution to a problem then makes itself clear, with back up solutions still available if it don't work.

..... It's great when you solving a problem that requires careful planning or thoughtfulness.

... How do you think when it comes to matters?

The Usurper: Aye, power.... I swear I get the felling that our leaders half the time brains are in respect to emotional and other essential adult developments no older then 10 years old.

...... Or is it that they never left puberty and it's still controlling them.

The Usurper: Who runs the USA? Israel or the United States?

Czuch: Mmmmmm It reminds me of a kid saying he's gonna get ya in a verbal dispute.

It's just talk, designed to keep the Israeli haters in Iran happy. He knows most Muslims while concerned over the matter will never take anything but peaceful actions such as marches.

But big mouths gotta act big.

The Usurper: Aye, the USA if it had supported the resolutions could have given rise to this problem being resolved years ago.

I can't understand why a country would support state terrorism, leaving blood on their hands as a result of their actions.

But there again.... Many USA citizens supported the IRA giving them guns and money while they were killing British soldiers and civilians, as well as Northern Ireland residents.

http://www.juancole.com/2009/01/palestinian-girl-israeli-troops.html

According to the laws of the Qu'ran firing at children is not acceptable. So those who say they do are breaking Islamic law, those who do suicide attacks, are breaking Islamic law and the words of the Qu'ran state they are going to hell.

Artful Dodger: Rubbish. They have what they call these days "Rules of Engagement" written down in their Holy book, just as the Jewish people have "an eye for an eye".

And as for it always being the Arabs..... that is as far from reality as we are from the edge of the universe. In respect Israel broke peace terms and conditions regarding the Palestinians for years.... hence the problems. I think they've broken more UN resolutions then Saddam, they taken land not theirs (like Saddam and Kuwait), abuse the Palestinian people daily (just like Saddam) denying them basic human rights and the Palestinian people are just supposed to go "ooOOOOoo we deserve it as we are Arabs and the bad guys"...

If Israel had kept to UN resolutions on borders and the rest then the hate level in that area would be far, far less.

Now what is the USA going to do about a country that has broken resolution after resolution, killed and made a peoples existence a hell of sorts and has WMD's?

The Usurper: Well they can't have read the Bible if they say that.

In Genesis, it is very clear that we are animated with the breath of life from God, that we have a soul and spirit. It's also very clear that God created everything and as such El is in everything. It is also evident very clearly that this is a wise creation from Proverbs.

Yeah, I know the RCC in it's early years messed up by formalising the Bible, not so much in the formalising, but in the destruction of scriptures not included from the various churches around. King James then made matters worse.

Though they didn't do a complete job. Some old scriptures have been found and some records and works by various Christian thinkers still exist. Unfortunately alot was destroyed in order to maintain control.

But not all. eheheheheheheh

"GERRY": In certain respects this world is a projection of the human race's mindset. In certain respects this is a learning ground to as stated in gospel 'create the Kingdom of God' while on earth.

As said in the Gospel of Thomas by Jesus. "Heaven is in us and around us."

The Usurper: Symbolism is a very important part of scripture, It is said that there are four levels of interpretation regarding Jewish scriptural writing. There is also a saying that to save the world you have to save one person only.... yourself.

Just the start of Genesis has several meanings, including one that goes with the idea of the God inside and those who have lived in darkness. The cry "Let there be light"

As for the spirit...... some would say that is present and visible everywhere if you have the ability to see it. It's not just in us but exists in it's holy form everywhere. And seemingly.... as some know... especially visible around those in need of extra support.

The only problem I have today with certain Christians is their seemingly trust in the word of others without using their mind and soul to reflect and feel the word of God. As certain philo's would say they have given up their ability to be like God aka an unmoved mover and in as such full illumination.

But.. It's early days yet for us as a race.

Bernice: Ahhh, no worries. procedures.

The Usurper: I remember one bit where to describe God as an 'energy' rather then some old man with a white beard was considered heresy. Pity that those who tried that didn't understand that the only reason God is called Father aka a 'he' is in regards to God's relation to us according to strict Judaic understanding, and that the Jewish language is by nature one that uses male and female as per the French language.

Bernice: What is a pig dog? I've heard of a bulldog.. which is a British dog, and to a degree a symbol of the British ability to hang on during times of great hardship (like WWII).

And referring to a person as an "it" is in reality a step towards the same ideas that certain people over the centuries with ideas of committing genocide thought. A step down a slippery ladder to hell and suffering.

The Usurper: Don't forget the crusades, the reformation wars and that the two founders of the protestant faith both wanted the Jews wiped off the face of the earth... for what they did to Christ, which I find kinda strange as if it wasn't for Their involvement in the 'death' of Christ we'd have no Christianity.

... Also if their wish had come true and the Jews had been wiped off the face of the earth then important info regarding the base of Christianity, ie Judaism and Pardes (a rule regarding interpretation of the Jewish scripture) would have been lost, and if that had happened, Christianity would basically have to shut up shop for being incomplete.

Artful Dodger: Ahhh but I was bringing some balance.... Seeing as alot of cartoons regarding your current Pres are being put on this board.

Are they really needed?

Especially since the advent of TV has democracy gone down hill, with budgets spent on campaigns now being more important then capability.

The Usurper: Aye.. I've heard similar. In the end it's best not to elect a man in charge of the country who wants to be in charge, but someone fit for the job instead.

How many western leaders have we had that have proven to be less then honest... and how many leaders world wide have to proven to fall short of the mark.

Most.

The Usurper: Aye.. we moaned about the bombing of London, etc.. then did the same to the axis countries.

The Usurper: Mmmmm so many rumours over the A bomb drops on Japan. Some say it was to end the war quickly, some say it was to see the actual consequences of the use of such devices for future reference, some say it was to frighten the Russians.

Czuch: Fear and terror like certain leaders have used before can give them the right to get away with murder.

Terrorism has been with us for years, some independent, some supported by certain governments in order for them to enjoy playing their stupid power games.

If 911 was not Osma Bin Laden (as the FBI now seem to be saying) then who?

Artful Dodger: Nope, I was sticking to the point, just using examples. Everyone else started going off on one.

Charles Martel: Did I say evil? I said a mistake, not needed. An error down to humans thinking badly.

Artful Dodger: I did.

Charles Martel: I'm not sure.... but it had to be guarded for a while as much hatred in the forms of graffiti was sprayed on the statue.

Some modern day people consider him a war criminal due to his policies.

Charles Martel: I know loads were used.... including 1000 bomber raids.

But from what I have read it looks like a lack of intelligence or the giving of such to Harris was a significant point. As he had not the clearance to know about ULTRA.

Charles Martel: Nope, I remember Bomber Harris, and not everyone agreed with him, in fact may British people and military were against area bombing of cities.... But the fact remains it was USA planes that did the raid.

Czuch: Maybe it wasn't Bush.. maybe it was some deep agency in the USA, kinda like when the CIA were dealing in drugs during the Vietnam war.

Artful Dodger: maybe because I've different perspectives being British and as Czuch keeps saying "a liberal" then to a repub. To me it's clear, not a dance.

Artful Dodger: Maybe, maybe not.... That depends on your view on who was responsible for 911.

Artful Dodger: Quoting the Prime Minister of the UK during WWII is nonsense... mmmmmm

Artful Dodger: Nope.

Artful Dodger: The Dresden fire bombing was not necessary. And essentially killed up to 40,000 civilians as the fire storm consumed the city.

As Churchill said after the raid....

"It seems to me that the moment has come when the question of bombing of German cities simply for the sake of increasing the terror, though under other pretexts, should be reviewed. Otherwise we shall come into control of an utterly ruined land… The destruction of Dresden remains a serious query against the conduct of Allied bombing. I am of the opinion that military objectives must henceforward be more strictly studied in our own interests than that of the enemy.
The Foreign Secretary has spoken to me on this subject, and I feel the need for more precise concentration upon military objectives such as oil and communications behind the immediate battle-zone, rather than on mere acts of terror and wanton destruction, however impressive."

Artful Dodger: You said it was moronic to do it as part of an emergency situation to boost the economy.

.... From what I've read, the USA has never given the Vets a penny, and now your current Pres is correcting that mistake. Maybe he could have made it as part of a another bill or announcement but he didn't.

So what?

Czuch: It's like when the USA bombed Dresden (sp) with fire bombs, it was not necessary but they did it.

The Usurper: It might explain why so little resources were sent to Afghanistan to get Bin Laden. If he was caught and as would happen put in court....

Just an opinion though, but if I was Pres at the time I would have sent enough troops and resources to implement a take and hold policy in Afghanistan.

Eg take an area, leave troops to hold it, then go on and take another area over, and so on.

Artful Dodger: Not twisted anything..... Stated my opinion. Just as you stated your opinion about helping out Vets that fought in WWII.

Artful Dodger: Perhaps your Pres is just doing the right thing now for those vets after them being ignored all this time.

.. That's moronic??

As for the removal of tattoos.. Maybe it'll put some people in a better situation to get a good job, rather then being victimised for being 'kids'. Kids do do stupid things ya know, you must remember that. It's part of growing up.

Czuch: If they allow you in, you'll have to show reason to be able to stay for ever, otherwise you are just another tourist.

Artful Dodger: Tattoos can be removed....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ic7X8LKADsg

Watch the video.

Artful Dodger: And Bush did what to the national debt? Spending billions and billions on a war that shouldn't have taken place.. at least maybe not in the form taken... If had thought, they could have done a sneaky war, which would have cost less in money and lives.

And what about some of those people who got contracts to rebuild Iraq, hasn't there been investigations into some over basically ripping off the American Government aka The USA population?

You don't reward those who fought along side you in WWII... that's disgraceful.

Czuch: Having two 100% mortgages... what happens if you lose your job? We are in a recession.

With negative equity

Czuch: Ahhh but some companies are offering 0% credit for two years or more on certain items like furniture over here. If one was clever, one would pay off the item in under those two years or so.

"Maybe it is a bit different with business.... but my advice is if you cant pay cash fro it, you cant afford it or it is more than you really need."

Have you really been following what has gone on re the banks? They've been lending and borrowing from each other, making very dodgy unthought investments all on the hope that the boom period would not end. Well it does, always.

They've been making bad loans to people, knowing that if the boom failed it would be the people that would suffer, bad mortgages.. no-one should ever get a 100% mortgage, people over here have always been advised (or as was in the past) to save a percentage first before buying a house, and most banks then insisted that had a deposit.

But greed set in, popularised by the banks, etc.

Tuesday: Yep. They hook you in then hit you with... um .. um lots of messy stuff. But...... At least over here they have clamped down on some of the rip offs, like charging you £20 for being a little late or for having to send you a letter. People were getting so peeved that the government had to step in and set limits before we stormed and lynched a few people from the financial services industry.