Übergeek 바둑이: But dude, no offense, but aren't you Canadian? Why are you and others trying to steer USA to what you think is good and proper? not that you aren't entitled to your opinion of course, But this is ain't Canada or Denmark

GTCharlie: But this is ain't Canada or Denmark

... and this ain't Antarctica either.

Pedro Martínez: just keep up the good work on the mound, 5-0

Pedro Martínez: lol

Übergeek 바둑이: in my opinion...the surplus our cigar wielding Clinton had to play with, came from 8 years of Reganomics,and "I never inhaled" Clintons nafta was the small stone at the top of the hill that started the economic landslide here in the USA.

Bwild: Talking of cigars.. Have they relaxed the laws on cuban's yet?

Great cigars!! Perfectly legal over here.

GTCharlie:

What is good and proper is up to American voters to decide. I am merely stating my opinion. I asked for a Republican website simply because the official line from the White House sounds to me too much like propaganda. I imagine that at some point Republicans will disclose whether they have any alternative plans that might resolve the political impasse.

If the US wants or does not want to reform their healthcare, it is up to voters to decide. Personally, I think that ther should be referendums for this kind of things. However, democracies want anything but the public making decisions on actual policy. If people actually voted on key issues rather than on mere political party platforms, then governments would not be able to act.

The US is not perfect, neither is Canada, or Denmark, or any other place. You might tell me why I am telling the US what is good and proper, but hasn't the US done that around the world for decades? Didn't the US impose its brand capitalism in Latin America during the Cold War? If the American government has the right to point to other countries and criticize, don't other people have the right to criticize too?

GTCharlie: It's not just those outside the USA, Clinton's wife tried when Clinton was in power to get reform sorted on healthcare..... but those lobbying on behalf of healthcare firms paid out millions in backhanders to keep your current system. I even heard a rumour that Hilary even had a price and got bought off, as in shut up and don't rock the gravy boat.

Various other Presidents have tried, but American businesses have protected their interests .... I still remember the case of Nixon being persuaded to delay seatbelt legislation, as the cost of fitting belts upset the manufacturers.

No-one wants the USA to fail (not any sane person anyway) ... The ramifications of a USA gone nutz or under is a terrible thought.....not sure how much is taught in the USA re Euro history...but we've seen plenty of countries go through hell from some sort of collapse... the last very big case was Germany through the after treaties of WWI..

.. That led to Hitler......

(V):

> Various other Presidents have tried, but American businesses have protected
> their interests

This is true in every country around the world. Most democracies and dicttorships have "lobbyists" and "special interest groups" which use money to influence policy makers. I consider this the greatest threat to democracy because an individual or a small group of individuals can subvert the democratic process with money.

I think lobbying should be illegal, as should corporate donations to political parties. Candidates should also have limits on how much money they can collect from individuals. The rich and the poor should be in a level playing field. Otherwise democracy is a joke.

Übergeek 바둑이: Can't agree completely.. Lobbying as such as in paid, is illegal over here. Parties are allowed donations, but in no ways can that be from a criminal .. knowingly, or in any means be regarded as a favour. A recent "cash for questions" situation led to criminal prosecution.

Doner's fund the party they like. All parties gain from this, and all accounts must be published as well as all interests of MP's... Like being on a board of directors, org's they support... donations, etc.

King's have fallen here over 'politics' in more ways than one!!

(V):
Parties are allowed donations, and lobbyists get paid by private interests to do the work on their behalf. It is a very indirect way to subvert democracy. Parties can disclose how much they receive, and in the news we hear of wealthy men giving millions to campaigns. However, relying on the impartiality and honesty of politicians is rather naive on accounts of the amounts of money involved. It is like putting a dog in charge of guarding the sausages!

Übergeek 바둑이: Aye... it happens... but if your fingers get caught in the pie over 'ere...

It's like with the expenses business. Thatcher's gov made the changes that caused them to get so easy to fiddle, and the conservative party over made a point of being 'squeaky' clean over taking the mickey at the tax payers expense.

.... and MP's got caught on camera moaning that they were hard done by!!

boo hoo.

(V):

> No-one wants the USA to fail (not any sane person anyway)

I think the USA and western democracy in general are not going to fail, but a catastrophic change in the economic conditions could lead to big social changes.

My true concern is the "Americanization" of many countries and cultures around the world. As people around the world are influenced by American culture and American values, those values are affecting the political and economic development of many countries around the world.

If American internal policy is adopted in other contries, then those countries could find themselves facing similar challenges in providing essential services to the poor. Millions of people could have similar challenges and in other countries where governments are corrupt we could see millions suffer. Other countries can copy government policy, but not all countries have the means to make that policy work in their own unique settings.