BrainKing - Diskussionsforen (Frog Finder)

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Frog Finder

Frog Finder & variants (Frog Legs)

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11. Feburar 2008, 16:56:08

AbigailII

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Thema: Re: change the rules please

coan.net: Having the game balanced doesn't necessarely make it fun. Flipping a coin is balanced game as well, but not really fun to play.

I think the "problem" with Frog Legs is that your move reveals information that can immediately be used by your opponent. This, in combination with low density of frogs (only 9 out of 169 squares contain a frog, which means that no matter how the frogs are placed, over half of the squares show a 0) makes for a dull game. The dullness lies in the 60 or 70 moves that are played before the game becomes interesting - no more "waiting moves" can be played.

I don't know if the flaw can be fixed - and I suggest to Fencer he won't make any chances to the game unless it was properly play tested.

Not knowing where one has guessed changes the situation where there's a 50% chance of finding a frog: it will then become advantageous to guess. However, this makes it even better to shoot on squares knowing it will reveal a 0, as revealing a 1 (or an even higher number) becomes worse than it's now.

Here are some ideas that may work (although only play testing will reveal whether it actually does)

Increase the density of the frogs. There will be less no-information revealing moves possible if there are 25 or 49 frogs. It will not lengthen the game, as currently, between good players, most of the board will be shot anyway.

Give players two moves per turn. Then, in his/her second move, the player can use the information gained in the first move.

No guessing - just shoot the frogs (change them into bunnies). First to shoot 5 frogs wins the game.

If you shoot a square revealing a non-zero number, you get an extra turn (or a free guess)

11. Feburar 2008, 17:43:37

coan.net

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Thema: Re: change the rules please

Verändert von coan.net (11. Feburar 2008, 17:44:24)

AbigailII: In the idea of hiding where your opponent guesses, I'm trying to see how you would think revealing a 1 (or higher) would become worse than it is now. If I shot and reveal a 1, my opponent will still have the same chance of guessing where the frog is as they did before. Only now if they do decide to take a chance and guess (and guesses wrong), it would be to my advantage to try to guess also. But also lets say there are 3 possible places a frog could be (33% chance) - I may also decide to guess - at worse (if my opponent did not guess at all), at worse I would end up -1 point (guess wrong twice, then correct third time) - but also keep those points away from my opponent.

As for the other ideas (my quick opinions)

1. 49 just seems like way too many. 25..... now that might be interesting. It will leave less 0 spaces on the board - but also might "block" part of the board in which players would have to take "wild" guesses behind a "row" of frogs. (then again 49 might work - I would have to see what a board would look like)

2. I think that would end up with players on turn 1 taking a shot which only reviels 1 space - that way on turn 2 they could guess correctly. Would help speed up the game, but my quick thoughts is not make it much better.

3. To me shooting the frogs instead of guesses seems like more of a different game - that is possible a different variant other then a solution to help Frog Legs.

4. I think it would end up like #2 - that is players would try to only make shots that give information to just 1 space (that way they can use that information next). A solution which may not make the current game any better.

And yes, and idea should be thought out very well - tested outside of the site if possible before anyone tried to convince Fencer to change something. (which is why I would LOVE to hear from anyone with ideas or suggestions or comments about other ideas.)

Overall - I would like to see something small changed which will (1) not change the game too much and (2) make it so it is worth to take more wild guesses. when there less then 100% chance of guessing correctly.