(V): Yes, perfect for the ones who have been unemployed for 99 weeks who whine about unemployment benefits ending.

Tuesday: I can't stand Bush either, and definitely didn't vote for him. So put that in your hat before you get all high n mighty.

And I don't care who they became unemployed under. (Though, HMMMMM, 99 weeks is about 2 years, no?) They need to get back to work doing SOMETHING. We shouldn't be paying for THAT long.

And again, you're making assumptions. I am NOT a republican.

rod03801: Ok... But as a consumer, are you willing to pay the extra as these workers will have to get minimum wage?

.. And whose paying for relocation costs?

(V): People need to take care of THEMSELVES.

I don't turn to any government to take care of ME. I work hard and pay my bills.

Someone can certainly need HELP from time to time. And I'm all for that. But 99 weeks of unemployment compensation is WAY beyond reasonable. It's not MY duty to take care of someone like that forever.

I don't care about relocation costs / minimum wage. You DO what you have to DO to take care of yourself and your family.

rod03801: Are you willing as a consumer ( the first part of my question) TO PAY for the extra costs involved to the likes of the food industry of having a non illegal immigrant workforce.

Let's forget about relocation costs.. The fact that a simple little fed or state help would cut long term employment is hard to comprehend I know for some.

(V): Little insults will kindly be left off this board? No? I suggest they are.

As I said, a little help is one thing. 99 weeks or more is WAY beyond a little help.

And yes, unfortunately there is really no way around it. All of us will have to sacrifice in some way to fix all the damage that has been done, by those who wanted to turn things this way.

Can't really say I have a problem with people working for minimum wage though, for a while, if that's what NEEDS to be done. Perhaps give them a little LESS help then, rather than paying what we are paying now for them to sit around and be "picky" about what they do for work?

rod03801: I'm trying to put some real economics on the table.

"Can't really say I have a problem with people working for minimum wage though,"

So.. In the end you don't really care about workers as long as you get cheap consumer products.

That's insulting to the folk you want to supply you with your OJ and basically agreeing to illegal workers being employed in the USA!!

(V): Um, no it isn't. I say ship back every illegal immigrant.
There are obviously plenty of CITIZENS who need work. If they have to work at minimum wage for a while, because they can't get their preferred job? SO BE IT. I'd certainly do it before sitting on my rear end and taking handouts from the government for 99 weeks.

NO ONE takes care of ME, except ME.

God how many times does it need to be said? People CAN and SHOULD be able to get help occasionally, if they need it. But the kind of help being given out right now is NOT reasonable. Most who go beyond what any thinking/sane/reasonable person would see as reasonable are LAZY and TAKING advantage of those of us who are HARD workers and would do WHATever it takes to take care of ourselves and our families before turning for help.

rod03801: *sigh* In the end if you are unwilling to pay, or the businesses are unwilling to pay for the extra for the extra costs of a legal labour force... Who is?

If the labour cost NOW of a product through use of illegal immigration is 25% and that through a legal labour force goes up to 45%.. are you willing to pay extra at the till.

If you are not, no business unless forced is going to stop using cheap labour. If one does and another does not.... One will go out of business through being undercut.

Otherwise I must say (no insult) your understanding of economic realities is zilch.
The big shops will always want to use the cheaper supplier. In this case the farmer who charges less.

That is basic retail economics.

(V): U have no idea what my understanding is. You just don't read everything completely?

And yes, unfortunately there is really no way around it. All of us will have to sacrifice in some way to fix all the damage that has been done, by those who wanted to turn things this way.

rod03801: Well then.. give me some perspective. As the image you are giving is someone who has no business understanding whatsoever.

"ll of us will have to sacrifice in some way to fix all the damage that has been done, by those who wanted to turn things this way."

It is the USA people's fault... yes. They wanted a cheap life at the expense of others. You are still talking like you still do.

(V):  Most people in the US live way beyond their means.. They have house loans, student loans, auto loans and credit cards they shuffle payment after payment to.. they have to depend on two solid incomes to maintain their budget. When this started their was monies granted to banks.. but, also stimulus monies to help those homeowners.. The people who rent.. such as myself didn't have the luxuries of getting this extra money. I am amazed the prices of real estate. I grew up knowing that people had to work for their life styles I know the younger crowd thinks they get to start at the top.. and they can if their credit cards and score allow them to. Take their job from them and they start losing stuff cause all their monies are tied up in paying loans off.. not saving..

ScarletRose: I've seen farmers here go out of business as the supermarkets are unwilling to pay a fair rate for milk. Chicken farmers getting 3p a chicken profit whilst the middlemen and chains get a £1 or more profit.

Yes, it's all nice being young and just starting in the job market... But those who've been caught out by this bank crash.. It's a different matter.

(V): And as usual, you are giving the image that you argue, simply for the sake of arguing. Round and round and round. I can't be bothered with the silliness. I'm not getting into a mud slinging with you.

rod03801: I wasn't. I'm stating economic and business facts. This is what businesses rely on to run.

If anything is silly it's you thinking people should work on low wages just so you can get cheap goods, and that businesses will stop employing illegal immigrants when they have legal loopholes letting them.

(V): Not even close to what I said. Maybe someone else will dance with you now.

rod03801: Maybe someone will give me a straight answer now.

(V): Straight answer? Depends if there is a straight question? What is that question to which you seek an answer? Certainly not clear from below.

SL-Mark: .. are people willing to absorb the costs in the USA of having legal workers working instead of illegal workers.

It was clear, just I had to explain it several times

(V): Well, I can't answer that specifically for the populace of the USA.
Personnally, I welcome immigrant labour, whether it is legal or illegal. Why would I want to pay a higher cost for something? The minimum wage is a form of tax and consequently damages both economy and labour market... simple economics!

SL-Mark: The minimum wage damages the economy and labour market!!... how in your view?

(V): NO answer that EVER disagrees with you is "straight" in your mind.

rod03801: Nope. I got a straight answer and just replied to it. That you can't or won't give one.....