BrainKing - Diskussionsforen (Politics)

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Politics

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20. April 2011, 06:47:14

Übergeek 바둑이

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Thema: Re: Of course, believing in the unmoved mover, or a similar theistic view of the universe, is an act of faith. Nobody can prove scientifically that there was an "unmoved mover" or a god when the universe was created.

Artful Dodger:
Oh, don't get me wrong. An atheist has faith that God does not exist. That is all an atheist can do, because nobody can prove or disprove the existence of God scientifically.

There are certain things that did happen spontaneously in nature. The formation of the stable chemical elements is one. Carbon, nitrogen, oxygen adn hydrogen are abundant in the universe. They arise as stars spew out their matter and energy. It all happens in random systems, like the surface of the sun.

It has been proven scientifically that the basic building blocks of life (aminoacids, nucleic acids and carbohydrates) can be spontaneously synthesized in systems that mimic the early conditions of Earth. Abiogenesis ideas such as the "primordial soup" theory have been tested in the lab. The most famous experiment is the Miller-Urey experiment. Its more modern variants have synthesized all of the nucleotide bases in DNA as well as all 22 aminoacids.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiogenesis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miller%E2%80%93Urey_experiment

If the base pairs of DNA can arise spontaneously, attaching them in long chains was not impossible, and the spontaneous rise of a viable DNA sequence was not impossible either.

Well, ultimately it is faith that determines what people believe. To me, there is more than enough evidence to show that life arose spontaneously without somebody being there to design it. Eventually scientists will acquire the technology and skills necessary to create life in the laboratory. That will put an end to creationism, and the only intelligent design will be what scientists do in genetics laboratories.

20. April 2011, 10:27:24

Mort

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Thema: Re: It has been proven scientifically that the basic building blocks of life (aminoacids, nucleic acids and carbohydrates) can be spontaneously synthesized in systems that mimic the early conditions of Earth.

Übergeek 바둑이: Still a theory though that could be applied to any planet/moon that has such items. A common problem with all this science......... we are still learning. We still are basically a planet bound race with only little data on how life might form in the realms of the universe/multiverse.

20. April 2011, 14:59:30

Czuch

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Übergeek 바둑이: To me, there is more than enough evidence to show that life arose spontaneously without somebody being there to design it.

I can agree with this too.... what gets me up in the middle of the night, needing whiskey to shut me down again, is the creation of the universe itself.... I dont understand the big bang, and I cannot fathom what existed before that time, nor the creation of something from nothing, nor the existence of nothing, I mean right there....nothing is actually something isnt it? Like Tuesday said, it is comforting to believe that it will all be revealed upon our death, but religion is little more than man made comfort for the soul. Speaking of the soul..... is there one really, or is that something we have created as well? Ahhhhh.... more whiskey please.....

20. April 2011, 20:27:24

Mort

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Thema: Re: I dont understand the big bang, and I cannot fathom what existed before that time, nor the creation of something from nothing, nor the existence of nothing,

Czuch: IF there was nothing.. recent theories suggest that "nothing" could have just been the latest expansion of a massive (weight and mass wise) singularity. We are at a point (so I gather) that much ado about the creation of the universe is ... complicated and there are many theories floating about.

Basically have a beer and stop worrying about it

21. April 2011, 05:24:36

Iamon lyme

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Artful Dodger: interesting comments on old earth and cosmology. Can you or anyone else tell my how everythink in our universe was small enough to fit into a basketball, then a beachball, and on up to all of the mass we now have in the universe? How could all present mass, potential or realised, exist in a tiny bubble the size of our moon for example? I was an old earther until I did a study of time, what it actually is and how it is subject to basic premise of relativity. There is no real way to judge the relative motion of mass shortly after the big bang event compared to motion of mass today without knowing precisely how fast things were moving then. We see how time is moving now, but using todays measuring stick for the entire span from big bang on up until now is like judging the distance a car has traveled in an hour based on its present speed. By the way, if anyone has been wondering why I have been slow to respond to my games, it's because both my home computer and my laptop are not working properly. Today is the first time in over a month I've been able to get anything done on the home computer. Am at the mercy of my computer, can only use it when it lets me. I know this the politics board, but I would like to see more of science and philosophy being discussed somewhere on this site. Is general chat reserved for anything not listed under any particular heading?

21. April 2011, 14:01:08

Mort

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Thema: Re: Can you or anyone else tell my how everythink in our universe was small enough to fit into a basketball, then a beachball, and on up to all of the mass we now have in the universe?

Iamon_lyme: Extreme gravity and the fact that atoms are basically alot of empty space. If blown up an atom would have the nucleus the size of a ball while the electrons would be circulating at say 100 metres distance. Of the main forces in the physical plane.. gravity at the moment is a weak force, it's how come magnets can pick up metal. Yet at the time of the Big Bang, gravity was millions/billions/infinitely times strongly. It seems gravity at the moment 'leaks' into one of the strange new dimensions they are now finding thanks to atom smashers. With enough mass (like a black hole) gravity has enough force to compress matter and through that, bend space and time unlike anything in normal space.

An example of bending space... our Earth's gravitational effect compared to 'zero g' causes enough difference in time that the atomic clocks used in the GPS satellites have to corrected every day by earth based atomic clocks or they would be 10's of miles out.. just from the bending effect difference of zero g and 'one g'.

Another example would be that light takes just minutes to travel from the surface of the Sun to Earth, yet through gravity and other forces takes 10's/100's of thousands of years to reach the surface.