BrainKing - Diskussionsforen (Backgammon)

Now we ust need one for the tourney

7. Januar 2007, 03:24:57

jryden

Thema: Backgammon tourney

http://brainking.com/en/Tournaments?trg=21035&trnst=0&u=10119

I need three more players to get this tourny started...anyone?

6. Januar 2007, 20:45:06

tenuki

Thema: Re:

joshi tm:
As soon as I get some experience I will form an opinion about scoring...by the moment I respect opinions from those who already experienced the game.

6. Januar 2007, 16:39:57

ScrambledEggs

50 brains to enter backgammon

5. Januar 2007, 13:42:15

Mousetrap

Thema: Hyper! Hyper!

More Hyper players needed. If you are interestedplease join our team in
The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

5. Januar 2007, 06:48:36

gambler104

Thema: Re:

nabla: I think that the standard scoring system should be used.

4. Januar 2007, 12:40:36

nabla

Thema: Re:

joshi tm: I agree 100% with what you said and with returning to the standard scoring system. For the few games I played, CG looks like a great variant to me. Only could it benefit from a good auto-pass feature :-)

4. Januar 2007, 11:53:47

joshi tm

Thema: Re:

Verändert von joshi tm (4. Januar 2007, 11:54:53)

Anyone interested in the score system of Cloning Backgammon: At first, you totally right when you say the scoring is not correct. It is already a big advantage to have extra pieces on the board, and even 21-point cube matches can be (will be) completed in one single game if played correctly. In the past, I thougt that cloning makes a disadvantage, but playing the game here at BK showed otherwise. This has to change.

In fact, the game is invented by me, so a rules change cannot be done if I don´t agree.

My proposal is:

Score only for games, gammons, or backgammons (multiplied by the cube). Don't score for anything else.

Anyone agreed? Post it on the boards.
Anyone disagreed? Post it on the boards, but please MOTIVATE your disagreement or give ideas for improvements. So don't post that CG sucks, but post WHY it sucks (and what could be done to make it better).

Thanks a lot.

31. Dezember 2006, 18:06:20

grenv

Thema: Re:

Gr☺uch☺: The rules are arbitrary and don't work well. As a result the game will never finish if played properly by both players.

31. Dezember 2006, 17:17:32

coan.net

Thema: Re:

gogul: They are no longer playing on the site, but a 21 point match just completed giving him another rating. Just wait 30 days, and they will again drop from the ratings list (like all inactive pawns do)

31. Dezember 2006, 15:22:55

Thema: Re:

joshi tm: not yet! Should I be?

31. Dezember 2006, 15:04:11

joshi tm

Thema: Re:

Czuch Czuckers: So you aren't a Go player, are you?

31. Dezember 2006, 14:57:12

Thema: Re:

Gr☺uch☺: I dont like anti because it can last way too long, and this new variant can be even worse! Plus i am frustrated that I had was only a couple moves from a decisive victory in one game, and now just like that there is no end in sight to this game!

31. Dezember 2006, 09:54:51

gogul

Thema: Re:

Verändert von gogul (31. Dezember 2006, 09:55:17)

Why ROMANIA is back on the ratings?

Backgammon (playBunny, 2006-10-21 11:03:36)

31. Dezember 2006, 04:19:34

Thema: Re:

grenv: What's dumb about it? I haven't tried the cubed version yet.

31. Dezember 2006, 04:07:29

grenv

Thema: Re:

Czuch Czuckers: I totally agree, very dumb. Obviously not play tested before introduction to the site.

31. Dezember 2006, 03:10:32

Thema: Re:

Gr☺uch☺:I am not doing to bad at it, still trying to understand the pointing system in the cubed version.

31. Dezember 2006, 03:06:09

Thema: Re:

NewYear is soon: I must not be very good. I don't think I've won a game yet and have only about a 1300 rating. ! ;)

31. Dezember 2006, 03:00:04

Thema: Re:

Gr☺uch☺: Me too, its a funny lol

31. Dezember 2006, 02:59:22

Thema: Re:

Czuch Czuckers: I like it. What's wrong with it?

31. Dezember 2006, 02:15:47

Thema: Re:

Czuch Czuckers: LOL, why do u say that

31. Dezember 2006, 02:13:01

This cloning variant has to be the most stupid game since anti!!!

29. Dezember 2006, 18:10:32

Verändert von alanback (29. Dezember 2006, 18:13:07)

It took some trial and error to get this formatted correctly, but here is the 
play-by-play if you're really interested :-)

N. Nakov	alanback


1. 	12-14, 1-2 	8-3, 8-3, 6-1*, 6-1

2. 	bar-2, 12-17 	8-5, 6-5

3. 	12-18, 14-18 	24-21, 21-15

4. 	12-18, 12-14 	24-20, 20-14*

5. 	bar-4, 19-20 	15-11, 14-13

6. 	17-21, 19-20 	5-4*, 5-4, 13-12, 12-11

7. 	pass 	        11-6, 13-10

8. 	pass 	        13-9, 11-10

9. 	bar-2, 18-21 	9-4, 13-11

10. 	17-22, 19-22 	13-11, 4-3

11. 	2-8, 8-12 	13-12*, 12-6

12. 	bar-2, 2-5 	11-5*, 10-5

13. 	pass 	        11-10, 10-9, 6-5, 10-9

14. 	pass 	        9-3, 9-4

15. 	bar-2, 17-18 	3-off, 1-off

16. 	17-18, 18-19, 	6-off, 5-off

        19-20, 18-19

17. 	20-23, 19-21 	4-off, 3-1

18. 	21-22, 22-23,  	6-off, 6-1

        18-19, 19-20

19. 	2-6, 6-7 	5-off, 3-off

20. 	7-13, 13-19,  	5-1, 3-off

        2-8, 8-14

21. 	18-24, 14-15 	4-off, 4-3

22. 	15-21, 2-3* 	pass

23. 	21-23, 23-24 	pass

24. 	3-8, 8-13,  	pass

        13-18, 18-23

25. 	19-23, 23-off 	pass

26. 	19-off, 20-24 	pass

27. 	19-23, 22-off 	bar-19, 19-14

28. 	20-off, 23-off 	14-9, 9-8

29. 	20-off, 22-off 	8-4, 4-off, 1-off, 1-off

30. (resigns)

28. Dezember 2006, 23:34:30

Thema: Re: cloning questions....

gambler104: Cloning is bad unless it serves some purpose.

What about cloning cows for food, does that count?

28. Dezember 2006, 23:04:30

Thema: Re: Translation needed

playBunny:sure, thanks

28. Dezember 2006, 20:57:32

gambler104

Thema: Re: cloning questions....

Gr☺uch☺: Cloning is bad unless it serves some purpose. So in many cases you try to avoid hitting. But in some cases as in the game that I posted somewhere on here, I think it is advantageous to hit. Still a bit early to tell all the unique intracacies of the game.

As for variants, hyper could work but it seems that it would just turn into a match of complete luck. Race or crowded could work as could nackgammon. However, anti is not an option as games would never end.

28. Dezember 2006, 19:52:36

playBunny

Thema: Re: Translation needed

alanback: Heh heh. Just a guess. I couldn't translate it from Russian either, lol. I could ask AlliumCepa. He's Bulgaria's contribution to the Best of Europe team. Would you like to know the literal meaning?

28. Dezember 2006, 18:55:18

Thema: Re: Translation needed

Verändert von alanback (28. Dezember 2006, 18:58:35)

playBunny: I won the match 5-0 against a higher rated opponent ... who by the way is Bulgarian, not Russian as I assumed from the cyrillic text.

Oh, I see, gammon ... a pork reference not used in my country, ha ha ;-)

28. Dezember 2006, 18:52:59

playBunny

Thema: Re: Translation needed

alanback: Lol. Did you get or not get the gammon?

28. Dezember 2006, 18:34:03

Thema: Translation needed

Verändert von alanback (28. Dezember 2006, 18:37:16)

What did my opponent say here?

ВЯРНО, ПЪЛНА СВИНЩИНА

The translation website that I used couldn't handle any of the words, but after a spell check returned: "Truly, pork is full." I think it lost something in the translation.

28. Dezember 2006, 15:19:11

Thema: Re: cloning questions....

rod03801: Thats what it is I dont like about it! I wasnt sure... but it is a cross between anti and.... I really dont like anti much either!

28. Dezember 2006, 04:55:23

Thema: Re: cloning questions....

rod03801: i've never played anti so I'm a bit new at it all. I'm not one that likes variants much. Loop chess is fun but that's about it for chess. I like backgammon race and hyper but beyond that, I'm not much on the other games. ;)

28. Dezember 2006, 04:44:04

Thema: Re: cloning questions....

Gr☺uch☺: Sure. Of course I understand. I was just hoping there was more to it than that. I guess I was expecting more from a new variation. Just because I love backgammon. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with it, though. It just probably won't be one I'll play a lot. I'm not a fan of anti backgammon, and the "leaving open pieces as bait" strategy sounds too much like anti and it turns me off a bit! lol..

But it's always nice to have a new game to try.

28. Dezember 2006, 02:39:32

Thema: Re: cloning questions....

rod03801: OK. I think I understand your question. I think it's a disadvantage to clone. That's the beauty of the game. You can leave a piece exposed where normally you wouldn't.

OTOH, if you have most of your home base covered, and you can put your opponent on the bar, he/she can't get that piece out becasue there will be no slots to land on (of few choices). And your cloned piece can get out (assuming opponents home base has openings) and so the cloned piece is not a disadvantage to you.

Another advantage to cloning might be to build up a wall in your opponents home base thereby keeping him from getting all his pieces home. But the downside of that seems to be that you still have a gauntlet of your own to navigate and every time you land on an opponents piece, you add another one of yours to the bar. ;)

So the biggest advantage I can see is only really available if you have your homebase covered so that an opponents piece on the bar has no place to go :)

does that make sense? I should probably learn the exact terms of the board and pieces! lol

28. Dezember 2006, 02:34:00

Thema: Re: cloning questions....

rod03801: It seems to me that the strategy is to sometimes avoid hitting an opponent when in a normal game you would hit them? Then, sometimes if you are behind, you might want to leave many pieces uncovered, to force your opponent to hit you? I think it is less of a hazard to have men left open, especially in the early positions, and try extra hard to make a block by your home base, then force your opponent to make a hit on you and back them up, something like that. But then sometimes, i try to play it a lot like a normal game, and get it to a race as soon as possible!

28. Dezember 2006, 02:06:11

Thema: Re: cloning questions....

Verändert von rod03801 (28. Dezember 2006, 02:07:53)

Gr☺uch☺: I'm wondering why someone wants to clone. In the cubed version, I can see why, because if you have lots of pieces and manage to get them all off, blah blah blah, then you can get lots of points.

In the non-cubed games, I just don't see the point of wanting to clone. Yeah, I've played backgammon long enough to know why you want to knock your opponent to the bar. lol.. jeez..

I'm wondering is there some sort of extra advantage the cloning business has for someone??? Or is it one of those things where: maybe you won't always choose to knock your opponent to the bar, since it gives you an extra piece to have to take all around the board.

I just haven't gotten far enough in the game to see the point of it all. I was just looking for someone to enlighten me a bit.

28. Dezember 2006, 01:47:28

Thema: Re: cloning questions....

rod03801: Are you asking why you would want to capture an opponents piece?

28. Dezember 2006, 01:43:14

Thema: Re: cloning questions....

I'm still in the very early stages of my first few games of this, and I'm not sure why this is a variation?? What is the incentive to take advantage of the new rules in non-cube games? Or is the point that you want to avoid when you can, having to clone? I'm not getting why we want to play this, but probably only because I haven't gone far enough to see it yet. lol..

If someone could help me see, I would appreciate it.

27. Dezember 2006, 22:56:12

Thema: Re: cloning questions....

grenv: yeah... I dont like the cubed games really, since you can easily get 50 points in one game! Plus i agree, some of my games have gotten ridiculous, and when you get behind, the only strategy is to try to drag out the game by adding as many pieces a s possible...

27. Dezember 2006, 16:55:24

grenv

Thema: Re: cloning questions....

Czuch Czuckers: I'm playing my first couple of games now, and it seems a little silly all those pieces on the bar. Could take years to finish at the rate I'm going, and I agree that the scoring seems tricky to understand. Don't think I'll play again.

27. Dezember 2006, 02:07:54

Thema: cloning questions....

Does anyone completely understand the point scoring? After reading the rules, i am still confused? Can both players score points in a game, or only the person who wins? Also, how do the normal gammons and back gammons come into play ina cubed match?

It seems strange, I just got 58 points in a 5 point match in the first game? Does thiS MAKE SENSE TO PLAY IT THAT WAY?

Any help will be appreciated!

25. Dezember 2006, 10:54:41

gogul

cloning hyper would be funny though :)

24. Dezember 2006, 23:46:37

Thema: Re: cloning backgammon

LionsLair: Plus, if I recall correctly, Fencer has said at some point in the past that he doesn't like to create variants of variants.

24. Dezember 2006, 11:55:14

joshi tm

Thema: Re: cloning backgammon

LionsLair: Ithink that only Cloning Crowded Gammon will make other strategies to the game. Cloning Antigamon is endless (or even more endless than Anti Gammon already is...) Cloning Hyper make too short games (where a race is going already) so cloning in CHG is useless. Nackgammon and Racegammon will not change the game strategies too much, only Cloning Crowded will change a chaotic CG game into total chaos.

23. Dezember 2006, 16:19:41

Thema: Re: cloning backgammon

LionsLair: cloning hyper

23. Dezember 2006, 16:16:53

LionsLair