Walter, attempts to reason with you have failed. You and Ellieoop keep repeating that "we have no business removing your CHOICE from you."

LISTEN TO ME, BECAUSE I AM ALSO TIRED OF REPEATING MYSELF.

NO ONE IS OBJECTING to your having "choices." If you want to choose from among LEGITIMATE PENTE VARIANTS, I have no objection. But the game you and ellieoop want, without the restriction, IS NOT A VARIANT.

LET ME REP{EAT THAT. IT IS NOT A VARUANT. IT IS JUST AN INCORRECT VERSION OF THE GAME.

WHy can't you get that through your head? In a game, some rules are fixed and some are not. Well, that just happens to be a fixed rule!! That's the end of it!

You and ellieoop have Given NOTHING to support having the game without the restriction. NOTIHNG!!!

let me repeat that, you have given NOTING!!!!!!!!!!!

all you keep saying is that you want choice, but you have made NO EFFORT to justify having THAT PARTICULAR CHOICE!!!!!!!!!!!

Why can't you see that????

Please, think about it! One could justify the existence of ANY variant, no matter how bad or illogical, by using yourargument of "I want choices." Well, that doesn't make sense. Ablanket statement that could be used to support ANY awful variant or version of a game is NOT a legitimate argument!

That you repeatedly ignore almost every individual poitn that Gayr and I make is very fristrasting, because we are puting a lot of time and effort into this discusssion, and you clrearly aren't!

You said Gary;s analogy was apples to oranges (theo ne about removing a rook)-- That's a load of crap! Iti s a perfect analogy, and I could use your weak argument to support the existence of that game! I could say "well, if you don't like it, don;t play it, but dont; remove my choice."

This is ASININE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I just don't klnow what to say or do anymore, you are not even trying to uderstand anything we are saying.

The matter boils down to this very simple set of facts:

1) Serious pente players always use the restriction, and

2) non-serious players ACNKOWLEDGE that they do not care one way or the other!!

So, who is served by the "variant" without the restriction? NO one!!!!

By the way, I want to show you how terible your analogy is regarding chess variants.

IF a terrible chess variant was created, and people objected to it, would you then say "OH I SEE HOW IT IS YOU WANT TO REMOVE ALL THE CHESS VARIANTS?"

NO, of course not, the person is only trying to remove the one BAD variant. Well, it is the same way with pente.

I support Pente, keyro pente, G-pente, S-pente, D-pente, K-pente, and the ideea of double pente. These are elegitimate variants. The only one I have a prblem with is the no restriction "varuiant" which you cor ellieoop cannot even give ONE reasonable defense for!!!!!

I am SICK AND TRED of hearing about how people's FUN is being deprived of them because the restriction was added to the 13 X 13 boards (actually, veyr few, maybe only one or two people have actuallysaid that, but its being repeated so many times has had the same effect as if a large number had made it).

To say that the game iwth the restriction is any less fun is just without merit, there is notihng to substantiate that claim.