Dark Vamp:Hmmmmm guess i got brain fog

Foxy Lady:  You got it right.  ;)  Yeah politics can be light fun as well as tense.  I like it both ways. ;)

Artful Dodger: I love it when Bernice lets Chucky have it.

Foxy Lady:  Yeah, he can take it too.  She's our number one blog subscriber.  Wanna join the AD/Czuch fan club here?  All ya gotta do is listen to us ramble, and then disagree with us, and then sit back and watch us dismantle your arguments point by point.  Then Bernice comes on and puts us in our place and we start all over again.   It's great fun!  

Artful Dodger: Ok but i'm sure i'll need Bernice's help.

Artful Dodger: HAHAHAHHA.....you silly buggar :)

Foxy Lady:  Yeah cept if you told me to jump, I'd probably ask how high.    Did you know that Obama is against unreasonable gun control?  He's being accused of being a "centrist."  That's a good thing for those of us on the right.  Pelosi wants him to move left but she really wants him to do her bidding.  Obama won't do that.  He's a smart politican in many ways.  I hope he works with the republicans on this "stimulus" / pork spending package.

Artful Dodger: Obama has a long hard road ahead of him.

Artful Dodger: do I detect a little bit of sarcasm here

Foxy Lady:  all of it uphill    I'd rather work with little kids.  

Bernice:  Just a little  ;)

Guess what Brazil did that the US has been refusing to do?  Look for oil!  And they found a ton of it.  Well, a lot more than a ton.  Meanwhile, the US is looking for solar powered vehicles (these will be sold in Alaska) and battery powered vehicles too (long extension chords are in massive production as we speak)  

Artful Dodger: oh my gawd.....my sides are sore from laughing

Artful Dodger: Where do you all these articles?

Foxy Lady:  I subscribe to lots of blogs.  lol

Artful Dodger: I guess you do.

Bernice:  Laughter is good medicine.  I can't believe how funny politicans can be.  Al Gore actually appeared before congress and ask for some money from the <span>economic stimulus package to assist with global warming research.  global warming and economic stimulus?  Oh yeah, I see the connection.  

Foxy Lady:  Gotta keep you guys up on the latest stuff  

Artful Dodger:

Foxy Lady:  ratts, I gotta go to bed.  Just when it was getting fun.  :)  

Artful Dodger: Yeah before you get in trouble on here. Nite

President Obama is planning to sign the FREEDOM OF CHOICE ACT. (FOCA)
This is something he promised to do if he got elected.

Very briefly, FOCA would:
- Eliminate any regulations that currently protect women from unsafe abortion clinics.
- Force American taxpayers to fund abortions.
- Force every state to allow partial-birth abortions. (They are not forbidden.)
- Oversee the conscience rights of doctors, nurses and hospitals that oppose abortion.
- Strip parents of their right to be involved in their minor daughter's abortion decision.


Many people believe that abortion is murder..... and even though the laws say that a woman has a right to choose abortion as an option, where do we(our government) get off saying that people who oppose this should be forced to contribute money towards it????

Czuch: I mean.... I have a right to plaster myself with tattoos too, or plaster myself with booze, or even plaster my walls..... but does the government give me money to do it??????

Czuch:   Exactly right.  And partial birth abortion is nothing short of genocide on babies.   He needs to rethink that position.  I certainly don't want my tax money funding such things.

Czuch: well that wont win him many friends

Czuch: I don't want to debate for or against anything, but did want to post this:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/medical/choice.asp

Just in case what you posted gives someone the wrong information.

coan.net: okay, thanks, I am sure the information I got was at least somewhat biased, since it came from a Catholic nun cousin of mine...

coan.net:  The problem with the law (as in so many of these kinds of laws) is that there are ambiguous phrases.  Here's how the law reads.

"A government may not (1) deny or interfere with a woman's right to
choose - (A) to bear a child; (B) to terminate a pregnancy prior to
viability; or (C) to terminate a pregnancy after viability where
termination is necessary to protect the life or health of the woman; or
(2) discriminate against the exercise of the rights set forth in
paragraph (1) in the regulation or provision of benefits, facilities,
services, or information.

In item C, what does it mean exactly the "life" or "health" of a mother.  Protect in what way?  From death?  Or from other things (like being fat is unhealthy and I don't wanna be fat and unhealthy so I want an abortion).  I'm not clear on this and neither are many others. 

"[The Freedom of Choice Act (FOCA)] would sweep away hundreds of anti-abortion laws, policies" - National Organization of Women web site.See Here

This can't be a good thing. 

" Nancy Keenan, president of NARAL Pro-Choice America, joined
pro-choice members of Congress and activists at a Capitol Hill press
conference to introduce legislation that would codify Roe v. Wade into law and guarantee a woman's right to choose in all 50 states. " - NARAL

It seems that this law would remove states rights.  I thought the US was in favor of States Rights???

If FOCA is passed, it would automatically overturn

• State abortion reporting requirements in all 50 states
• Forty-four states' laws concerning parental involvement
• Forty states' laws on restricting later-term abortions
• Forty-six states' conscience protection laws for individual health care providers
• Twenty-seven states' conscience protection laws for institutions
• Thirty-eight states' bans on partial-birth abortion
• Thirty-three states' laws on requiring counseling before an abortion
• Twenty-eight states' laws requiring a waiting period before an abortion, and
• Sixteen states' laws concerning ultrasounds before an abortion

see here

I think there's a lot more to this law than people think.  It will be a sad day for the pro life movement and unborn children (and parental rights) if this becomes the law of the land.  There will be a huge fight over this one and if Obama succeeds, the next Republican president will overturn it.

Czuch:  Yeah, it's hard to find an unbiased source of info on this anywhere.

Artful Dodger: I was going to stay off this board because,well,you guys annoy the crap out of me with your right winged,left thight middle foot crap you blab about all the time but this one AD

(like being fat is unhealthy and I don't wanna be fat and unhealthy so I want an abortion). I'm not clear on this and neither are many others.
If you are seriuosly SO unclear on that,that you would think getting fat would fall under this,then maybe you shouldn't be a teacher...THAT is just ignorance.....

anastasia:  I'm unclear as to what extent the law would go with regard to the health of the mother.  What exactly does that mean?  I think some clarification would be nice. 

Artful Dodger: of course you would

Hey isnt it wonderful to at least know that people are STILL reading this page even if they don't comment (until it suits them of course)


There is always something that will make a child eat his vegies LOL

Bernice:  Gee, and I thought I was asking a fair question too. 

it illustrates well the range of reasons a person may have when it comes to having an abortion.  When it comes to the "health" of the mother, I want to know what is meant by that.  What exactly is the acceptable range of health concerns?   Why is that such a troubling question to answer?

Social Reasons (given as primary reason)     
       - Feels unready for child/responsibility     25%
       - Feels she can't afford baby     23%
       - Has all the children she wants/Other family responsibilities     19%
       - Relationship problem/Single motherhood     8%
       - Feels she isn't mature enough     7%
       - Interference with education/career plans     4%
       - Parents/Partner wants abortion     <1%
       - Other reasons     <6.5%
     TOTAL:     93%
(Approx.)

Artful Dodger: ***I'm unclear as to what extent the law would go with regard to the health of the mother***

Well I do know from personal experience (albeit 40 plus years ago and my SIL) the Catholic Church would sacrifice the mother to save the child.

She was allowed to die to save the child. At the time I was married to the brother of a priest (catholic) and he said because Alison was a convert the child was Gods child and Alison wasn't...or words to that effect....it was so long ago....I no longer belong to that church so don't know if their policies might have changed, so please don;'t jump on my case......

Bernice:  I would always opt to save the life of the mother in those cases.  Without exception.  That is the predominate view of most protestant churches. 

Artful Dodger: and I agree with you as she did have one other child, who was eventually brought up by his catholic grandmother...such a sad case

my god I cant believe I put a big "laughy" after that...sorry

Artful Dodger: I was a convert to catholicism....I had to convert or I couldn't get married, and I was pregnant at the time ROFL.......such archaic laws they were then

Bernice:  I wonder if people (in the church) were just trying to do the right thing but were so seriously misguided that they made such poor judgments?  I don't know.   I'm sure there was plenty of religious arrogance that played a part in such decisions as well.

Bernice:  another thing that bothers me.  Doctors that preform abortions make tons of money.  Abortion makes the millionaires.  It seems to me that anyone that stands to make so much money preforming an abortion shouldn't be in on the decision of the woman.   I realize that most often the decision is likely between the woman and her private physician and that she would be referred to the specialist, but it strikes me as odd that so much money could be made by such a practice.

Artful Dodger: This is one debate i'll stay away from.

Foxy Lady:  I don't blame ya  ;)  That and religion are probably the two hottest topic buttons one can push.

Artful Dodger: I dont know of any abortion clinics in Queensland so can't really comment . But what you have said in my opinion seems a bit strange that people can make lots of money due to the bad choices/bad luck of others

Artful Dodger: Your right there.

Bernice:Doesn't it seem odd to you that the pro-choice advocates don't want others to impose their views on abortion on other people, and yet they want to pass laws that will require all tax payers to help fund abortions (through taxes).  I don't know what the issue is like where you are but here in the States it's a divisive issue.   

Artful Dodger: I also agree with ya but if broaching the subjects in question like adults there is no reason that we all can't agree to disagree and still have a lively debate ROFL.........but then this is a POLITICS board not a "freedom to life" board HAHAHAHA

Artful Dodger: well that is the same with religion as well....I notice on here that a lot of people impose their religious beliefs on others....I have given up joining a lot of the "older" type boards on here as they are too "one-eyed" for me

Bernice:I agree.  The issue itself is a political football.