Wow,
Some long time paying members are quite upset about (Filip) Fencer's attitude and implementation of Poker on his site. If we were to go to another board (Features, etc.) and ask about Poker, we would be redirected here. So, its hard to swallow being told we are "off topic" discussing Poker and its future...ON the Poker forum.

I've been a paying member for quite a while now. I don't have tons of games going, but I visit the site a couple of times a day 5-7 days a week....for years. I've learned a few things about Brainking.

1. Fencer (Filip) really doesn't care about members, paying or otherwise. He has repeatedly said, "If you are not happy here, you are free to play elsewhere"...even to long time members. I suggest you take him up on his offer. Stay and play the games because you like them, or bail on this site.

2. Fencer DOES care about this site. Which is why I am still here. He continually works on it, adds new games, etc. Albeit, very unprofessional with responses to questions from members. Fencer is not afraid of criticism. He will let people make "negative" posts that other sites would "moderate". But, don't expect a "friendly" reply.

To tie this into this board's "topic"...Fencer's game site (Chess, Backgammon, etc.) is one of the best on the internet. But, his poker site is one of the worst. I check back every 3-4 months to see if he has "fixed" it. I will find where he has done a few "features" (toggling sound on/off, etc.), but has not fixed the bugs nor addressed the "responsiveness" of the site.

I love playing poker (for fake money). But, to date, I don't play poker here because it is not worth the frustration. If you look at the number of members (paid or free) then compare that number to how many are playing poker, you will see that the poker tables are not well received. If you then look at the throngs of people playing on other poker sites (that do not offer real money tables)...well it doesn't paint a pretty picture.

I'm not sure what Fencer's plans are for the poker tables...and he won't tell us. When the tables were new, I use to make polite suggestions on how to improve various aspects of Brainking (games, rules, poker, etc.) Usually, I was simply ignored. Once a suggestion was actually implemented. But other times I got shot down rather rudely, as some here just did recently. Which is why I don't really offer my suggestions anymore. Trust me, after playing here for many years, I DO have suggestions.

I have seen Brainking go from a side project of Fencer's to a full blown site. With the addition of the Poker tables, I think Fencer has hit the limit of what one man can do...maybe it is time to get another developer to help out.

So...Kill the poker tables or fix them...I don't care. I will still be playing the other games. In a few months, I will check back to see if the tables are still worthless...till then, anyone care for a game of chess?

Brag

I agree with Czuch...The poker tables really need a "Stand Up" feature. which leaves you as a spectator.

Sitting in a new seat? Easily done by making them post a big blind to sit.

Also...It would be REALLY nice (and make for faster play) if there were buttons to pre-select what you want to do:
Check
Check/Fold
Fold
Call Any Amount

No matter what you do, someone will find a way to try to cheat the system...

1. Stand up...simply means you become an "observer" for that table. Someone else may/might take your seat. and you might have to sit somewhere else to get back in the action. Maybe the table even fills up and you can't sit down.

2. Abusive attitude. With ANY site, yes even BrainKing, people can become victims of abusive. Usually verbal (foul language, taunting, etc.). Or even manipulating the rules so they never have to pay a blind or get some other advantage.

At some point, as the tables grow, I would hope the poker tables get a group of "Moderators", just like the other forums. Those encountering abusive players would need a way to "report" the abuse.

Fencer: I agree that playability is more important than pretty graphics. I'm just giving my impressions, suggestions, and ideas. I won't be offended or leave Brainking over them. For the price, this is a great site with or without the Poker tables.

As for a more lengthy response, I would love to see it. But don't stress it. I know how much time running a site like this can take.

Fencer: One more...as this came in while I was typing.

The internet, itself, is not a good source for rules. You'll find lots of differing "opinions". Even Wiki's are subject to opinions.

I suggest finding rules from a specific organization. I think a good source for rules, such as how to determine kicker, would be from the "World Series of Poker".

Fencer, I think the creation of real-time, multi-player games is kinda cool. I hope my ideas and suggestions were not obscured by too many posts. This forum seems quite active. But, I think I am done here at the "Poker Tables". If I see an announcement about changes/fixes, I will be happy to come check them out again. Here are my final notes:

1. Wealthy players...This is not an issue of players having too many chips, if there is a max buy in at the tables. In fact, its what will keep players coming back. that drive to have the most chips or reach the next award level.

2. Speed...As I play the tables, it seems really "laggy" most of the time. When I make a choice, like clicking the "Call" button, there is too long of a delay when I see confirmation.

3. Graphics...I hope the graphics improve before you go "Live" with the game. Even if you just added a nice background image. Another suggestion is to get rid of the Square border around the players portraits. Or give a nice background...There is just to much "White Space".

4. Chips...When people place bets and those bets go to the pot (or Side Pot), Show a picture of chips along with the count. Set the font style of the chip count so it can have a transparent background, but still be easily seen againt the table image.

5. Seats...When you sit at a table, the whole table is re-drawn so you are always at the bottom. I don't like this. I think your portrait should sit where you click. Of course, this can be an option.

6. Time-out Players...I really think the way this is handled will affect how many long-term players there are. It should NEVER be possible for a timed-out player to win the pot! Other players should NEVER have to endure multiple, back to back timeouts from a player. I understand not wanting to be too harsh to players that legitimately have issues...but forcing a fold and dealing them out of subsequent hands (until that player takes some action) is not too harsh.

7. Expanded games...I hope this leads to other card games, like Hearts and Pinochle. There are many free poker (fake money) sites out there with AWESOME interfaces. It will be hard to compete against them. There are sites with good Hearts games. But, I have yet to find a sight with a good feature-rich Pinochle game. In fact, the only two reasons I play poker on THIS site is to help provide suggestions for you and because (at work), the other sites are blocked.

Bwild: I just started playing on facebook a little bit ago, used to play on PartyPoker...not sure how frequently you can get more chips as I don't bust. But, I think we all agree:
1. Players must be able to get more chips if they bust
2. Player may only do so, "once in a while". Once a day is the max, but I think shorter time periods would be nice.

Personally, I think 3 per hour is too frequent. Nothing more boring than sitting at a table when someone just goes "All In" on every hand...knowing they can get them back whenever they want.

I don't think there is an issue of flooding the market. I seriously doubt Fencer will let you get more chips whenever you want. I bet there aren't even a million chips in play yet.

As for "awards", they are awesome. But, I'm not sure you should spend chips on them. Nothing wrong with having millions of chips in the bank. You should be limited to how many you can bring to a table.

Bernice:Let every player have 5 (or some finite number) of free renews...

now that isnt very fair....you have people playing because they love the game but they never win a hand....so after "so many" renews you want to deprive them of having fun??? I think not.

you then say ***Let players always get one renewal per day*** which is it to be.....or am I missing your point here

Yes, you miss the point...they get 5 free to use any time they "bust"...they ALSO still get the daily amount. So when they start out, they can go back and get more chips 5 times (all in one day or spread across multiple days). After that, they can only go back and get chips once a day. So, if they start playing and end the day with chips, the next day, they can actual get more chips SIX times. But once those five free ones are gone, they can only get chips once a day.

In your (brainking.info) blog, you mentioned being able to request more chips...I have a few suggestions for this feature:

1. Only let people renew chips only when they go bust.

2. Let every player have 5 (or some finite number) of free renews. So players learning can get more chips at the beginning. All 5 can be used in one hour, one day, however long they need. Again, can only renew if you don't have chips. So, you can't use them all up to get 5 times the normal starting amount.

3. Let players always get one renewal per day. Again, only if you don't have any chips.

4. Reward people for playing other games on brainking. You could have a daily bonus players could grab, based on their activity with the other turn based games. You could base it on number of ratings (provisionsal?), number of running games, number of moves, or any combination.

OK, I just played some more. It is slow to play. When a player "times out" it is VERY SLOW.
1. There were 3 players...one of them kept timing out.
2. The other two wanted to check.
3. The "timed out" player would auto check after timing out...EACH TURN!
4. At the very end, the player that timed out THREE TIMES actually, won.
6. New hand, I was FINALLY dealt in...
7. After the flop, the same player timed out again (checked), so I did a small raise...
8. Player timedout AGAIN and auto folded.
9. Play continued...
10. New hand...player that timedout repeatedly was still there...and timing out.
11. Finally that player was either booted from the table, or left. Whew!
12. Player shows right back up...
13. Player continues to timeout, hoping to win more pots with everyone checking...

Please, Please, Please....When a player times out...
1. Flag the player as timed out.
2. Force a fold, no matter what!
3. Don't deal them in to a new hand till they unflag themselves.
4. Let existing players boot timed out players (so others can take their seat).

AbigailII: Another option...Not require everyone to stay and play this big long marathon....Have a tourny start at a specific time. But also have a date/time when it ends. At which point, whever has the most chips wins. These tournaments typically run a week. Brainking could even sponsor a weekly tourny like this.

This is something I find useful at other sites. An option to hide "empty" tables.

coan.net: When it is their turn to post a blind...simply stand up...then sit back down after the deal (skip a hand or two)...You can then play with never having to post a blind. Of course, players can always do this, but its harder if blinds are forced.

I know you just gave an answer to this Fencer. But, I really think they should be forced. There is a checkbox to sit out the next round, so that is their out without having to lose a blind. Otherwise, it is too easy for a player to manipulate the system and never post a blind.

I know...Blinds are so small anyway. But I'm hoping for bigger blinds when the "test" phase is over.

Typically, that is on every other site I've played, when a player times out, they are forced to fold. Otherwise a vindictive player can really extend the time to play.

I would guess that if they have to call, they would fold. But if "check" is still available, the action on a timeout should still be Fold.