mctrivia: which is exactly why this idea will never work

JackFiveOff: Ya unfortunetly there is absoulutely nothing you can do to stop cheaters.

Nice ideas but lets see what Fencer says first before you stress yourselves out on the legalities and technicalities etc. :)

mctrivia: It's more than setting up a website. You have to do all of the coding behind the scenes for the $ part to work. That can be expensive when you are factoring in the amount of time it would take to implement. It's a lot more work than you think - I'm sure Fencer can agree w/ that.

And most of my post was regarding cheating. What makes you think people won't look up the best moves when $ is on the line? I mean, people cheat here when all you're playing for is a win or loss...

JackFiveOff: I have no clue what you mean. But seting up a web site is not expensive. $9 a year for a domain name. $4 a month for a high bandwidth low space web server in the US.

mctrivia: This would never work. Do you really think people won't load up fritz and get the best move if $ is on the line? It's not like this hasn't been thought of before. There are several sites that are trying it...they don't get *that* much traffic to make it worthwhile. I won't post links, but you can google it easily enough.

Walter Montego: I don't know Backgammon but I would consider Dark Chess a game of skill just like poker is a game of skill. It involves knowing your odds and playing acordingly. As for 50/50 it does not have to be that specifically. Fencer should get a cut to help keep the site going. Besides in a tournament with 20 people in it, 10 peoples entrence is a lot still.

mctrivia: 50% is a massive rake. It makes no sense for gamblers to have a separate site when there are other separate sites with much lower rakes. The gambling market is very competitive.

mctrivia: I consider 10% too much! Who'd play when the operator gets half? And what's wrong with playing games on this site you're proposing that aren't pure skill, such as Dark Chess or Backgammon?

BIG BAD WOLF: Here is an idea. If the laws in Check allow it maybe Fencer should think of starting a new site(brainkingmoney.com it is available). And have only games of skill chess, penta, reversi, ect were the gambling can be done. This way BrainKing.com can't be blocked for gambling and Fencer can rake in a lot of dow from the gamblers. Have everything 50/50 type tournaments. Fencer gets half the winer gets half.

BIG BAD WOLF: An interesting idea! A trading system of sorts would need to be set up. Also, when one pays for his membership you could be given some Brains. Offering them as a tournament prize would be something you could do with them. Fencer could still give them out for referals.

Brain's value would depend on how many Brains it would take to turn them in to get a year's membership and how hard they are to acquire. I suppose the outright buying of Brains could be figure into it too. That'd certainly help orginize tournaments for when the prize is a membership. It'd really make it easy for the tournament creator to have different prize levels during one tournament too.

How much do you want to bet that they don't enforce that?

I said this to a friend mine in a bar who was standing under a sign printed with that on it. California has strange gambling laws. It was once OK to play Draw Poker and illegal to play Stud Poker in card casinos. Legal by the way since the 1930's. The legal gambling age is 18 or 21 depending on the game one is betting on! As far as I know it is illegal in every state of the United States to play Poker at your house for money! Including Nevada. Can't say that I've ever heard of a successful prosecution of breaking this law though. I consider Pool a game of skill and yet it is illegal to bet on it in California is you are playing in a place that serves alcohol. When I was a kid winning a free game on a pinball machine was illegal in Anaheim (Where Disneyland is) but legal in Santa Ana and Tustin (Neighboring cities). Someone actually took a pinball to court and got the laws overturned. The original pinball machines had no flippers and were gambling machines. That's why Anaheim had them against the law.

As for a contest where the contestants pay an entry fee and all money collected is paid out to the contestants, this is normally not considered gambling as compared to where the organizor takes a cut of the money collected, but here again the game in question has to be taken into account in California! Also, you can have sponsored contests where the money given out in prizes is more than the money collected from the participants. Such as some of the tournaments on this site, or any PGA golf tournament. I'm not sure about NASCAR races, but I think the money awards in it are more than the entry fees paid by the race teams.

This internet is a whole different deal. MikkyT's observation about the government not getting the cut of the action really is their prime complaint. They try to sound high moral and consumer protection advocate like, but we all know what side of the bread is getting the butter.

I think making the site about playing to "win" money and such is not a good idea. As it is now, some people feel the need to cheat to win - if it was for actual money, it would bring out a lot more cheaters using programs and such. Another reason is many people play from work, or certain places which does not allow people to play on gambling sites - and even if the person is playing the "free" stuff with no money involved, it would still be considered a gambling site and could be blocked. (Not to mention the programs which automaticly block gambling sites.)

I came up with an idea awhile back to turn the Brains into a little game/money type of thing awhile back. That is you earn brains for winning games, and tournaments. (very few for games with limits, more with tournaments, and even more with tournaments with a lot of players.) You could also earn brains doing other things, players could offer their brains as extra prizes for their own tournaments, etc... etc...

With the brains in turn, nothing would actually equal out to actual $$ - but things that would not cost Fencer anything - like for XX amount of brains, you could post an approved system message on the front page for everyone to see for XX amount of days. Or you could change the color of your rook/knight to special design colors like purple, red, or multi-color (NOTE: This idea was before gold rooks were introduced - to tell you how long ago I had this idea). You could also buy things like being able to post with your own special icons/smiles in your posts only. Maybe buy your own private discussion board, extra vacation days, post in different colors, post in slightly bigger/smaller fonts (not enough to actually mess anything up - but to help make a post special) etc... etc..

I believe I still have my "long" idea around somewhere. It had a lot more detail, with restrictions to keep people from cheating too bad to get extra brains.

I think something like this would be an interesting addition to the site - give players something else to go after - but with the bottom line that they can not be used to actually "buy" something like extra membership time since that would take away money going towards a new server.

hmmm. After some searching it seems that as long as gambling is not your actual business it may be ok to gamble on line against other players who are also not profiting from the business.

Not really tested in court though, but that seems to be the best guess of several web sites i looked at.

cryptoguru: I am Canadian. And I agrea with you.

Also, it is not classed as gaming/gambling - it would be considered as a competition with an entry fee and prize money. The law would be very different in this respect.

The difference between someone playing an online game and then selling their character for money (which is not illegal) and this idea is also very small.

mctrivia:
I can't beleive they don't allow prize money in the US!!

It's not gambling if you're entering a competition, which isn't based on chance, but purely on skill!

You'd be paying an entrance fee ... and the winner gets a prize!
That's a bit different from gambling!

grenv: Actually, its not illegal. Brainking.com is not a US based website and as such does not come under the duristiction (sp?) of US law, either federal or state.

There are some state laws which prevent citizens of that state partaking in private gambling games (either online or offline in their own home) but these are about as enforceable as a law against same sex couples performing acts of love on one another.

pokerstars.com, 888.com etc all operate as overseas websites and as yet the US government is still floundering about in the dark, having tried and failed to stop its citizens from playing poker online.

The only reason they want to stop it btw is because they aren't getting any taxes from it :)

mctrivia: Maybe it's ok if you can't cash out and the money is used to pay for membership, and if the amounts are kept small it probably wouldn't be targetted.

The site itself would fall under Czeck law, so Fencer would be ok. It would be technically illegal for U.S residents to use it from inside the U.S however.

grenv: I don't beleive it is ilegal if you can't cash out in the form of money. I.E. have to pay membership or buy shirts. But I am not a lawywer though. Also being an internet site. I beleive the laws of the country the server and offices are in are what mater.

The usual games would also co-exist meaning that you can still 'play for free'.

I am a poker player, money is simply the means used to keep score. Thats not to say that players aren't ranked using some form or rating... you see where I'm going with this.

Playing for fun is good... but wouldn't it be nice if we could also have a BrainBank linked to our brainking accounts. We deposit money via whatever secure method can be implemented, and tournaments we play in can have cash prizes - eg, tournament entry is $1, 10 entries, winner takes $10.

Could also have money staked on single matches.

Thoughts?

yeah -- let's start with Tori Shogi and work our way up to Chu Shogi maybe.

Fencer, enjoy your rest and thanks for creating/maintaining this site. But when you do develop more stuff, don't forget some Shogi variants.

LOL Busted.

MidnightMcMedic:

TKR101010: And I once again vote for Dark Cylinder Chess .....

Greetings all, and happy holidays to everyone :)

I realize that Fencer has already responded to the Shogi Variants thread here and that things are in the works for next year, but since people are sharing their opinions on the matter I thought I'd share mine too ... I vote for Chu Shogi :) Tenjiku Shogi too, if possible.

Fencer, no rest. *cracks whip* back to work...NOW...well sorta LOL

Thunks :-D

Fencer: Happy holidays :)

Many things are planned for the next year. I am just taking a rest.

I'd like to see Shogi variants here please. I'd also like to see Shogi handicap games implemented, as my enthusiasm for the game far exceeds my ability. I was thinking about the simplest way to introduce handicap games and I wondered if the following would be a possibility: When you create a Shogi game, as well as seeing white and black in the 'Your Color' drop down box, you could also see '1 Piece Handicap', '2 Piece Handicap' etc, up to '8 Piece Handicap'. If you choose one of the handicap game options then a number of settings would automatically apply to the created game: You would have the white pieces, your first move would consist of the removal of the handicap pieces, it would be a 'normal' game, and it would be unrated. Making all handicap games unrated would get around trying to translate the handicaps into a BKR value. I thought this system might let Shogi players explore handicap games on a 'just for fun' basis. After a certain period of time, perhaps a year or two, there might be enough statistical evidence from the logs of games played to assign BKR values to the different handicaps.

Shogi variants would be great. Tori shogi would be a good one to start with, as it's small enough that the piece movements can be learned quickly. Another one to consider might be Minishogi, which looks like the Los Alamos Chess of the shogi world: standard pieces and rules on a 5x5 board.

headius: I agree with headius here. Even adding a modest Shogi variant such as Tori might garner even more interest in Shogi in general. Those members that feel Shogi is a little too bizarre to approach can get a better feel for the smaller 7x7 board. Go Shogi!

headius: Ok, I'll repeat my feature request in hopes more Shogi fans will pick it up. I would love to see Tori, Wa, and Chu shogi on BK, and I would guarantee to sign up for a paid account immediately if they were available. There are no other places online that fully implement any of these variants, and I have a stack of friends who want to play. Come on you Shogi fans! Voice your support! :)

I was woundering if there could ba a way I could post my current BKR for one or several games on my own web site using either SSI or a on the fly generated graphic with a 4 digit number in it. My server has the capability of executing prety much any type of scripting.

I was thinking of puting an ad for BrainKing on my web site and would like to be able to include my BKRs in the ad. It would also be nice if I could add something so you could track people I refered and have myself added to the brain referel automatically.

grenv: It's "done good".

I fourth the idea ... perhaps Fencer will forth it.

grenv: "you did WELL"

reza: I second (or third) the suggestion to have a single in game note and be able to edit it.

And you did good finding the grammatical error. Some of us english speakers should've went to class more often.

reza: When in this thread, I believe to associate a note with move number would be useful also.

mctrivia and Czuch: Firstly, thanks for the answers. Since English is aforeign language to me, my ears and eyes are more sensitive to these things! And yes, I agree too. Would be excellent if we could edit our notes.

reza: correct

reza: Gramatical errors aside(reza you are correct) I agrea with Big Bad Wolf it would be nice to be able to edit notes.

BIG BAD WOLF: sorry to be off topic but shouldn't it be "Would be nice if we could edit in-game notes (TO SELF).?"

Answer me in a message please so that it won't remain off topic more than this .....

Sorry to interrupt!

Would be nice if we can edit in-game notes (TO SELF).

Now that the notes can be places above the board where you can see them, in games like Dark Chess, Espionage - I like to try to keep track of my opponenets pieces.

It would be nice if I can just edit my one note instead of having to copy-paste it all into a new note with the couple of changes/additions that needs to be done.

MidnightMcMedic: OK, you have my permission to delete my off-topic messages from now on :)

Fencer: Then it's not pure refactoring, but more of a revamp, which includes some refactoring and some user interface redesign. Of course, if you want to keep calling it refactoring, that's OK, just let the good people at Wikipedia about your view as well ;)

alanback: The changes in the view are tightly related to the refacroring process.

Pedro Martínez: Applying that definition, then, the term appears to be inappropriately used below. The definition describes refactoring as a process to make the underlying source code more readable and understandable, without changing the output or such things as the appearance of the user interface.