ScarletRose: Tony's not asking for more vacation days. He's saying that rather than give a lump sum of in January, he'd prefer to have 3 days added at the end of each month.

That would mean 6 additional days for a Rook because twelve 3s is 36, but it could be done as 3 days in Jan, 2 days in Feb, 3 in Mar, etc. This would give no extra days but still spreads out the allocation.

For Knights it would be 2 per month giving 24 for the year or 2 days for Jan and Feb, 1 day for Mar, 2 for Apr, May, etc. giving the current 20.

playBunny: oh.. yes that would be nice.. I could see that way..

playBunny: Thank you for explaining this so perfectly; as you say, BK could allocate 2 days in one month and 3 days in the next.
What do you think of this so far, Fencer?

tonyh: why not just use a little dicipline and not waste them early in the year, that way if there is an emergency you are covered for longer

Vikings: lol. Yeah, self-discipline's the answer. Now what shop sells that stuff 'cos I need some in about 100 areas of my life...

what would happen if someone were to take a two week vacation in February with only 3 vacation days??.

lovelysharon: You mean a real vacation for two weeks and 3 BrainKing days left? They'll lose a vacation day for the first match that would time out on a given day. That match gets extended. The rest of the matches that would time out on that same day get extended too and are covered by the same vacation day. This can happen three times after which the vacation days are used up and the matches time out for real.

Is that what you were asking?

Vikings: Because, Vikings, I take plenty of holidays where there aren't always Internt cafes; what's this 'discipline' nonsense?

playBunny: *nod* thats what she is asking .. and if she isnt .. then i am asking the same thing :)

the frist week of 2006 i will on vacation (probably athens), so i will need 5 days for that

then in march i will be away for another week (austria) so i will need 5 or 6 more days then

that wont work out with just a few days per month

i like the 30 days at once and try to use them wisely (in combination with weekend days :))

Hrqls: Ah, I see I actually misunderstood. Lovelysharon's query wasn't addressed to anyone so I thought it was a separate issue.

It makes sense, then, that lump sum vs monthly paycheck should be a user option.

playBunny: nah .. you understood her perfectly .. i think .. i understood her the same way :)

user options are always my favo(u)rite :)

blah

playBunny: there was more than one person talking on this subject and I guess I was asking the group ... hypotheically if the vacation time was alloted a few days per month one person could not take a two week vacation in early months of the year...

Vikings: as far as the self discipline.. I get 5 weeks vacation each year from work... I'm not sitting home all that time worrying about my backgammon games... I go when the mood strikes... lol..most time it's to my son's house where i do have access but rather spend time with my grandson..

the major reason I joined this site was the current vacation policy.. I just have to remember to keep that auto vacation turned off... lost too many days to it this year..

lovelysharon: Yes, I realised when Hrqls posted that you were continuing the topic.

30 days in January or 3 days per month would surely be a choice for each user to decide. But even if 3 days per month were forced upon people there shouldn't be the problem that you fear, except right at the start of membership. If you take a long holiday in February but none in September through January then you'd easily have built up enough to take 10 days off. It's only in the first year that there would be any problem. If I were implementing that system then I'd avoid even that hardship by starting people off with 10 or 15 days and then adding the 3 days per month thereafter. But giving the choice is better.

I currently go away to visit my kids in dec/jan... feb vacation is with a girlfrind.. back to visit the kids in april for my grandsons birthday.. I take a small vacation in the summer for myself .. now with new grandbaby there's another birthday in october for a visit then.. and back again in dec for holidays.. do you think i can accumulate enough days in between??.. last summer i had an off chance of a holiday in Hawaii with 4 days notice.. I jumped on that.. lol.. .. I say keep the allotment the way it is..

Hrqls: I think we could have 30 days as a start off. Then we deduct vacation days and add on 2 or 3 days a month until we get back to 30 days maximum. That way, we could always have enough days for vacations.
Other sites do it thia way.

tonyh: "Other sites do it thia way" is a bad argument to convince me. Nothing will be changed.

tonyh: other sites can have really bad policies too... at iyt I timed out everytime I traveled.. that is why I am no longer a paying member there and joined here..

Fencer: What, pray, is a good argument to convince you?

tonyh: Actually the current policy is strictly more generous than the "running total" one (I mean, it just always gives you more flexibility).
Imagine that you get a job offer where you will get an annual salary at entrance, and then an annual salary each 1st of January, would you decline it because you are afraid that you could spend all your money in January ? Well, maybe your answer will be yes, but mine won't :-)

lovelysharon: If the incremental allotment gave the same number of days and you started with a decent quotient then you would certainly be able to do your "accumulation of days between". If you couldn't then you'd have to run out of days under the current system as well, because they both provide the same amount.

tonyh: No. The request must be logical, must have a sense. Changing the vacation policy, as you propose, seems illogical to me, that's why I won't do it.

Fencer: If a member has unused vacations days at 31 December, what happens to them? Do they just disappear?

tonyh: Yes.

nabla: So there is your answer; you could save money from your 1st January salary to spill over to the following year. Here, you can't.

I think if we pay for membership we should be allowed to carry our vacation days over, you can in most employment.

oldhamgirl: following this argument, also pawns should be allowed to carry over the vac. I don't pay for my employment.

thats fair enough, but I think if you pay for membership then there should be some perks, sorry

tonyh: Are you kidding? Membership on BrainKing is not like your salary. There are different rules and who doesn't like it, nobody forces him to pay for a membership. 30 days a year is enough for everyone.

tonyh: No, that still wouldn't apply in a monthly system if there is a cap of 30 days. If there is a renewal of the 30 days in January then losing any days on December 31st is moot. In the monthly system you wouldn't get your 3 days if you were already at 30 - that's losing unused days on a monthly basis instead of in December.

I think the monthly allotment is a logical request because it allows another way for a person to manage their vacation days. If it's provided as a choice then Tony, Sharon and Vikings could all be happy.

Fencer: (unless you renew your membership 1/2 way through the year.... then you can get up to 60 days a year!)

BIG BAD WOLF: LOL. Which makes a good case for either a monthly allocation or a complete vacation renewal on the membership anniversary.

playBunny: I have no problems with 30 days at the start of the year. Just plan ahead as best as possible. And with auto-vacation option, you really do not need to plan. Just make sure that is set and if you leave town and can't play - those will kick in.

If for some reason you are short come the end of the year, renew your membership early and it will be reset at that time also. (even though I would hope not too many people would need more then 30 days a year....)

the problem I found with auto vacation is one game may time out .. ok the system takes a vacation day to cover it.. a few hours later another game times out.. the system takes another vacation day to cover that... another few hours game times out another auto vacation day.. so I've used up 3 days to cover one.. I think if you use a lot of vacation time like I do.. it's best not to set auto vacation..

lovelysharon: Are you sure of that? I've been watching the way auto vacation works with other players, and it seems to me that once they add (or subtract, depending on how you look at it) a vacation day, they don't add any more for 24 hours.

alanback: I can't be positive.. maybe Fencer can clarify.. but that is what I thought happened to me.. as you know I am online at least twice a day and playing all my games thru at both sites.. I eased up a little when I was having that trouble with myy hands and poof my vacation time disappeared

alanback: if you read the FAQ http://brainking.com/en/FAQ?ht=20 it states that it uses the day to prevent the game from timing out.. it does not state that it adds another 24 hrs to all your games

lovelysharon: As soon as an auto-vacation day is taken, it applys to the rest of the day. (Server/Fencer time)

So if one game uses the auto-vacation, it does not automaticly add 24 hours to all other games, but if they time out on the same day, it uses the same auto-vacation day.

Here in the USA, 5pm Central Time is midnight for BrainKing. So if I have one game auto-vacation at 4:50 my time, and another at 5:05 - then it will use 2 auto-vacation days since they are on different days according to the server.

BIG BAD WOLF: I could be wrong but I thought I lost 3 days in one...it used up all the time i had left.. doesn't matter now.. I just have to wait out the last couple of weeks then get more in Jan.. I'll be visiting the kids last week of the year and first week of next.. so if i time out .. I apologize way ahead of time..

Marfitalu: I don't know but I can do it if you want me to? ;-))

the system as it is right now doesnt take away all your remaining vacation days at the end of the year ... it fills them back up to 30 day on the first day of the next year.
plus, as bbw said, you can renew early. my membership runs out at november (i think), when i renewed i was back at 30 days again, and i will be back at 30 days again in january (minus the 5 which i will spend on the very first 5 days :))

just use the vacation days when you need them .. try to be clever with your weekend days, and use automatic vacation days for unknow situations :)

the 'days per month' solution is pretty bad when you first start, as you will start with only a few days. this will even out when a couple of months have passed and you saved up enough. if you are above 30 days it should not add more (otherwise someone could hoard 100s of vacation days and abuse those ;)) .. which would make no difference with the end of the year as it is right now

for me the system as it is right now is the most flexible system there is .. as long as you keep yourself in hand just a little tiny bit and save some for later :)

automatic vacation: its like BBW said, i know from experience.
when a game times out and you ahave automagic vacation days set, then 1 day will take from your total vacation days and the game wont time out. that day is now counted as a vacation day for any games which would time out on that same day
(it doesnt add 24 hours to all of your games though)

the fact that it doesnt add 24 hours to all your games make the difference between fixed vacation days and automagic ones ... when you are sure you will need a certain day as vacation day .. set it as a fixed day! .. that way all your games will profit from it by having 24 hours added to them

i renewed early and have 30 days left, i need to take off about 10 days now, are you saying that i will start at 30 again on jan. 1st?

i also assume that i can play when i have vacation days clicked, getting company and might be able to get some games in. am i right in assuming that?

ellieoop: yep, to all of that!

great, thank you:)

I agree that 30 days is enough! Some people abuse that, so heaven forbid giving us more to use!

furbster: this year i had 2 vacations: 1 week in spring and 3 weeks in summer

in november i still had about 20 days vacation left on this site ... i saved those in case i would need them around christmas or for unforseen circumstances

i renewed in november and now have 30 days left .. which i wont use at all :)

good use of weekend days (you can change them once a week) helps a lot to preserve vacation days
have a look at your games and when they time out .. try to move in all your games just before your vacation .. if your fastest game has 3 days per move then you wont have to set vacation days for the first 2 days, you can set the weekend for the 3rd and 4th day, this will save you 4 vacation days already. be sure to have automatic vacation days if something goes weird (you might get into a next round of a tournament with 1 day per move, or someone starts a stairs game with you (although you should retire the stairs while on vacation)

also try to figure out when your opponent will move ... if (s)he will move the day after tomorrow, then you wont have to worry about your game timing out before that (plus the time you have for the move yourself)

try to finish the fast games before your vacation and only join games with longer times per move

use fixed vacation days when you will surely need them as this can preserve vacation days which would have been used for the games which would time out the day after

dont set a vacation day for the first day you will be back .. although you might not have a chance to make a move ... you might have a chance to do so .. which would have made it a waste .. let automagic vacation take care of that day if needed :)

all this helps a lot to preserve vacation days :)

have fun on your holidays!!!! :)

tonyh: You are absolutely right about the carry-over, sorry. Anyway, my comparison with salary was an extreme one. If you use all your money for the year, you are in real trouble. If you use all your vacation days, all you risk is losing some games.
I should quit silly comparisons and just state that IMHO the current policy is fine, maybe just a bit dangerous for those who use auto-vacation.

LOL. It's amazing how so many people seem upset by this suggestion! Tony's request has nothing to do with anybody who is happy with the way things are. He would like an *option*, an alternative - one that would suit him, and probably others, better. [shrug]

playBunny: Many thanks, indeed!!! It is astonishing how affronted people get!
I appreciate that the programming of this alternative may be tricky - but it would be very useful. Having 3 weeks holiday on a remote camp-site in Cornwall tends to destroy vacation time!!