Jim Dandy:

Okay already.... yes, we all (large majority) want Obama to have a successful presidency!


All I am trying to say to you is the 41% in the poll were probably not saying what you were implying them to say! We all define success in different ways! If Obama made gay marriage legal in all states, some would mark that as a success that they could be happy with and others would see it as a success they would not be happy about, and in that context, there are many who would say they want Obama to not be successful!

Czuch: I imagine that if all these people of different backgrounds and beliefs were passangers in the same airplane,they'd be united in wishing the pilot(Obama) a successful flight.

Jim Dandy: Well you obviously dont understand our politics..... its not like we all have the same ideals and goals, and its just a matter of the best man for the job...

There are people who think abortion is murder and some who dont. There are some who think being gay is normal, some who think it is deviant, there are some who think a free market economy with few government regulations is best, others disagree....

When a liberal is successful at implementing their agenda, it goes against most everything that a conservative believes is right, and visa versa... its a constant tug and pull process... Hoping Obama fails in implimentation of some of his policies for a conservative is not shooting ourselves in the foot, as much as it would be a victory!

Czuch: I think even the partisan Fox viewers(or almost 60% of them) know it would be best for everyone if Obama is a success from every perspective.Why shoot yourselves in the foot?

Czuch: i think I need to change this to "I have a question?" Since I forgot there arent any liberals in here, just conservatives and smart independents who always vote their conscience and make up their opinions on a case by case basis, yet vote for democrats 99% of the time, heheheh....


Anywho.... back to the point.... anyone else see the irony in Obamas "spend our way out of recession" policy? Sounds a bit like the trickle down economics to me? Havent we heard so much about how trickle down economics doesnt work? Is that only when it is a conservative doing it?

Jim Dandy:

Half of the country did not vote for Obama because they do not believe that the implementation of liberal policies will be good for the country!

Therefore, some people could be hoping they are wrong, and that his policies will work...?

Jim Dandy:

on whatever scale unsuccessful Presidents are judged in a bi partisian way

I would say that a bipartisan assessment of a presidents success would be based on how well they were able to implement their policies?

Again, since this poll was Fox news people, many/most are conservatives, or at least a very high majority of those who responded that they didnt want him to be successful, and those people could merely be saying they want Obama to fail in the implementation of his policies, based on the fact that they already disagree with the basic concept of his policies based on the fact that he is a liberal and they are conservatives!

Czuch: I'm no genius,but it seems to me that 59% wish to see Obama achieve a successful
Presidency( on whatever scale successful Presidents are judged in a bi partisian way)

and the 41% wish to see his Presidency not be a success(on whatever scale unsuccessful Presidents are judged in a bi partisian way

rod03801:

Thanks Rod, i thought I was losing my mind here....

I think Jim believes that I am just trying to spin things and that it should be obvious to me what is meant here, but I truly dont think it was!

Jim Dandy: It seems very vague to me. How can you possibly get into the heads of the people who voted in the poll and know how they interpreted the question? As has been shown in this conversation, there are different ways of taking the question.

Jim Dandy:

"do you want Obama to succeed in implementing a liberal agenda and policies"

You cant see that as being considered a success for Obama?

Tell me what you mean and then I can respond better

Jim Dandy:

Dont make it so difficult then.... tell me exactly what you think the results mean? You seem to think it is not vague or unobvious, I think it has different interpretations...

Czuch: the figures were 59% and 41%
This was Fox viewer poll,not a national poll.
The question was not "do you want Obama to succeed in implementing a liberal agenda and policies"

but if it was,59% of Fox viewers apparently would,and you know that's a stretch

Jim Dandy:

So, to be clear then, you are interpreting the results to say that 44% of the respondents in this poll want the "Obama Presidency" to be an overall failure?

If this is true, I would think that most of those 44% are conservatives who want Obama to fail at implementing liberal policies that makes our country lean more in an overall liberal way!

Czuch: It was a simple question,the results speak for themselves.I have seen vague poll question before,this isn't one of them

Jim Dandy:

Spin away

I think you are doing a spin of your own, making it sound like 44% of the people in this poll are putting party before country by hoping that Obama fails, right?

Czuch: I would hope Fox does not reflect all conservatives

Czuch: Spin away

Jim Dandy:

Also, I wouldnt be surprised if way more than 44% of democrats wanted the Bush presidency to fail, so dont try to put this "party before country" idea all on conservatives either!

Jim Dandy:

I think you are wrong, I think maybe the 59% were voting with that in mind, but my guess is that of the 40%, they had other things in mind....


my example of bushs popularity.... some people were against him because of Iraq others like myself were against him because he was too much like a democrat, same poll same results but completely different stories.

Czuch:
Artful Dodger: Guys, it was a simple question,you and I both know Obama isn't getting the support of 59% of Fox viewers towards a liberal agenda,it's success or failure as President they were knowingly voting for.

Jim Dandy:

Has "party" surpassed "country" ?

hahaha.. I would say that was the case with Bush haters and Iraq!!!

Jim Dandy:

I'd rather explore the 41% of Fox viewers who wish your President to not succeed

Thats what I am trying to explain to you.... maybe they dont want him to succeed at making our country more socialized, i would be one of those people too!

Artful Dodger: The question was phrased as I stated it.I was a little surprised by the results.Has "party" surpassed "country" ?

Jim Dandy:

There is no way Fox would get a 59% Yes vote if it meant his agenda

You might be surprised... I think even conservatives are not happy with the economic direction of the country right now, and if that is what is meant by "succeed" then I am sure thats what these conservatives who want him to succeed are talking about?

Like my latest posts suggests.... spending our way out of this mess might work in the short term, and would be more favorable to conservatives than lets say, giving all the poor people 5k or something like that...


Like I started out saying.... these polls are no good because they are not specific enough, and what what seems obvious to you what is meant by "succees" others have a complety different idea of what it means!

Czuch: I'd rather explore the 41% of Fox viewers who wish your President to not succeed

I have been wondering.... Obama wants to spend our way our of this recession, and I havent heard any libs complaining about this plan, but I have often heard liberals complain about "trickle down economics", a staple of conservative policy....

But isnt this proposed government spending spree really just a form of trickle down economic policy?

I havent thought this through yet, and its not anything I have heard anywhere, just a thought I had recently, that I would like to discuss and explore a bit...

Czuch: For a President to "succeed" he would be doing well.Hannity himself says he hopes Obama "succeeds" There is no way Fox would get a 59% Yes vote if it meant his agenda

Jim Dandy:

I'm a little shocked that so many Fox viewers hope Obama does not right the ship.

See, thats the problem..... you see "succeed" as righting the ship

But my guess is that out of those 44% who dont want Obama to succeed they have different views of what success means.

Since Obama was the most liberal senator, my guess is that conservatives look at Success for Obama to mean that he succeeds in making this country more socialist, or more liberal in nature!

So if you are a conservative of course you would not want to see him succeed at making this country more liberal in nature, right?

Czuch: It doesn't sound that complicated.To succeed is to do well for the country,I'm a little shocked that so many Fox viewers hope Obama does not right the ship.Now if it was asking "Do you approve of Obama?" that would be a different story,and different stats I would think coming from Fox

Jim Dandy:

Do you want Obama to succeed


The thing with polls is they just dont really tell us anything.

What does success mean?

Its like asking if you like Bush..... when Bushs popularity was at all time lows it wasnt because we all hated him for the same reasons..... some of us hated him because he lost some of his conservative ways, which you would think would make liberals like him a bit more, but liberals hate him so much that even when he acted like a liber they wouldnt admit to liking him!!!

Charles Martel:

Well after all that's been done, I'd still take Bush over gore and Kerry


Uhmmm... can you give us a spread sheet to back that up please? ;)

Q: Do you want Obama to succeed

Yes 59%
No 41%

Well after all that's been done, I'd still take Bush over gore and Kerry

***Sometimes you misunderestimated me***


or is that a "Bushism" and only to be understood by americans?

Czuch: I thought it more of a case that she made Bush squirm, not many politicians like to be on the spot.

Jim Dandy: Yeah, credit for being a biased news reporter with an agenda....

You have to give her credit,well into her 80's she was one of the few White House reporters not willing to give GW a free ride

Jim Dandy: Not true... she asked and he tried to answer, she just doesnt like the answer she was getting...


Reporters also lose sight of the fact that they are there to REPORT, not make the news, she is a typical "left wing biased news media" referred to often here, who is first and foremost a Bush hater! She asked then interrupted him.. he is the president for christ sakes, she is the one showing absolutly no respect, why should he let her even in the room?

Jim Dandy: Helen Thomas Asks President Bush Why He Went to War
Thomash3-22

At the White House Tuesday, veteran correspondent Helen Thomas took President Bush to task on his reasons for invading Iraq. It was the first time Bush had called on Thomas, known as the "First Lady of the American Press", in three years. [includes rush transcript]

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* White House press conference, March 21, 2006

Rush Transcript
This transcript is available free of charge. However, donations help us provide closed captioning for the deaf and hard of hearing on our TV broadcast. Thank you for your generous contribution.
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AMY GOODMAN: We return to President Bush's news conference. Veteran White House correspondent Helen Thomas asked President Bush what some analysts called the most direct questioning he's ever received on his reasons for invading Iraq.

HELEN THOMAS: I'd like to ask you, Mr. President, your decision to invade Iraq has caused the deaths of thousands of Americans and Iraqis, wounds of Americans and Iraqis for a lifetime. Every reason given, publicly at least, has turned out not to be true. My question is, why did you really want to go to war? From the moment you stepped into the White House, from your Cabinet—your Cabinet officers, intelligence people, and so forth—what was your real reason? You have said it wasn't oil—quest for oil, it hasn't been Israel, or anything else. What was it?

PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH: I think your premise, in all due respect to your question and to you as a lifelong journalist, is that, you know, I didn't want war. To assume I wanted war is just flat wrong, Helen, in all due respect—

HELEN THOMAS: Everything—

PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH: Hold on for a second, please.

HELEN THOMAS:—everything I've heard—

PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH: Excuse me, excuse me. No president wants war. Everything you may have heard is that, but it's just simply not true. My attitude about the defense of this country changed on September the 11th. We—when we got attacked, I vowed then and there to use every asset at my disposal to protect the American people. Our foreign policy changed on that day, Helen. You know, we used to think we were secure because of oceans and previous diplomacy, but we realized on September the 11th, 2001, that killers could destroy innocent life. And I'm never going to forget it. And I'm never going to forget the vow I made to the American people that we will do everything in our power to protect our people.

Part of that meant to make sure that we didn't allow people to provide safe haven to an enemy. And that's why I went into Iraq—hold on for a second—

HELEN THOMAS: They didn't do anything to you or to our country.

PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH: Look—excuse me for a second, please. Excuse me for a second. They did. The Taliban provided safe haven for al-Qaeda. That's where al-Qaeda trained—

HELEN THOMAS: I'm talking about Iraq—

PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH: Helen, excuse me. That's where—Afghanistan provided safe haven for al-Qaeda. That's where they trained. That's where they plotted. That's where they planned the attacks that killed thousands of innocent Americans.

I also saw a threat in Iraq. I was hoping to solve this problem diplomatically. That's why I went to the Security Council; that's why it was important to pass 1441, which was unanimously passed. And the world said, 'Disarm, disclose, or face serious consequences'—

HELEN THOMAS:—go to war—

PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH:—and therefore, we worked with the world, we worked to make sure that Saddam Hussein heard the message of the world. And when he chose to deny inspectors, when he chose not to disclose, then I had the difficult decision to make to remove him. And we did, and the world is safer for it.

AMY GOODMAN: That was President Bush answering Helen Thomas at the White House on Tuesday. Commonly referred to as the "First Lady of the Press, Helen Thomas is the most senior member of the White House Press Corps. She has served as a White House correspondent for some 57 years and has covered every president since John F. Kennedy. It was the fist time President Bush has called on Helen Thomas in three years.

Czuch: It's sad when politicians lose sight of the fact reporters are there to report to the people.Thomas asked him questions he didn't like,so Bush basically thumbed his nose to the people wanting those answers.

Jim Dandy: There is a history there, between the two of them, and she blew it awhile ago as far as getting him to answer any of her questions, it all her own fault and it has more to do with her class than his.....

Czuch: I thought it was pretty classless for Bush to snub Helen Thomas in his final press conf today.At 88 she is the dean of White House reporters,he ignored her raised hand,.........stay classy GW

Czuch: ah ha but you called us all doubters......hence the reaction you got.........LOL

(V): You guys asked for a list... didnt say it had to come from someone who hates bush?

Czuch: Wow... enhanced interrorgation (sp) of prisoners is an achievement.... Rejecting a treaty that pretty much now he and his admin say is correct in terms that they are 90%+ sure that the reasons behind the treaty were well founded now.

.... What a great Republican site you found Czuch, but can you find a neutral one, not Repub or Liberal?

Czuch: who determines if it is a **valid opinion**

and I want factual evidence to back up your answer please LOL

Im doing an AD

Czuch: Barnes is known for his loyalty to Bush

Jim Dandy: Well, are liberals the only ones to have valid opinions of Bush then?

Czuch: Barnes has a show on Fox News also,go figure