Charles Martel:

Well after all that's been done, I'd still take Bush over gore and Kerry


Uhmmm... can you give us a spread sheet to back that up please? ;)

Czuch: a spread sheet???

Charles Martel: that was a job to me...indirectly

anastasia: *jab...sorry,highly medicated right now,lol

anastasia: not so much a jab as an attempt to be funny....

what you got, and how come you arent sharing????

Czuch: lol,right now vicodin,and I will never share..they are mine...MINE I SAY!!! ! *runs away giggling like a schoolgirl

anastasia: Good time for a stealth attack then?

Czuch: ROTFLMAO...that really DID make me laugh out loud too!!

Czuch: OK....but who said it????

there is not a Liberal America, there is not a Conservative America. the is the United States of America....

Bernice:

Nice campaign speech....

He is already finding out that great speeches and great platitudes and great promises, and being the first black president are all nice, and might get you elected, but the reality is that he will be able to do nothing special, either good or bad, He will not fulfill most of his promises, and he will be another average Joe president, despite the best efforts of the media and hollywood to make it otherwise.

Czuch: agreed 100%

Czuch: as they all are

Czuch: All leaders make big speeches..... Churchill did, Bush has (both daddy and son).....

And as you say.. time will tell on how bad or good he is, presuming where the USA and the world might be in 5 years is never that accurate.

Artful Dodger: It sounds like something from the Art of War. And a basic strategy towards peace.

(V):

It sounds like something from the Art of War. And a basic strategy towards peace.


Right, except when our enemy is basically hopeless and desperate due to living under brutal dictatorships and the like, we are not allowed to "force" our life on them to help them achieve a society that breeds hope and prosperity, thereby ending their desperate desire to be our enemy!!

We are supposed to just allow them to breed more and more desperate hopeless future terrorists, and do nothing but spend our money time and other resources to feed them when they get hungry!

Czuch: No, not force life.... Give them the choice to be what they want, with their worries and concerns talked about and allow them to live. Otherwise nothing changes, you might get a short break, but the same problems will still be there.

For example, why are we here at this point? What caused the current situation to start in the first place decades ago? Why hasn't anything been done by the international community to break up the situation before hand, who are the ones helping keeping a solution from been made.

(V):

Give them the choice to be what they want,


Well isnt that called democracy???? Do you really believe that the only reason the Iraqis have formed a new government and held free elections etc is because the US forced them into it?

Czuch: Partly yes... many still ain't sure, it's a bit difficult to say Iraq has a true democracy when the gun is still used to control so much of daily life.

History sorta says that a true democracy takes years to get into place, and the possibility of a civil war is quite high.

Artful Dodger: Hitler was a madman given the opportunity to arise thanks to a certain end of WWI treaty.

We are supposed to be civilised educated intelligent people with the ability to solve problems rather then make ones.

Artful Dodger:

"They are fanitical murderers and the only thing they understand is the gun."

Sad but true,and peace puts them out of a job

Jim Dandy:


Sad but true,and peace puts them out of a job


LMAO... I thought you were referring to the US government!

Czuch: You sound conflicted

Artful Dodger: I guess under your real world we'd still be fighting in Northern Ireland, instead of as happened in the real REAL world where people and politicians talked and came to a peace agreement which resulted in the Loyalists and the IRA disarming and now sorting their difference out in talks and government.

Decades of hate and fighting sorted, terrorists just now normal citizens no longer feeling the need to kill thanks to talk.

(V): I thought they just closed the pubs earlier,problem solved

Jim Dandy: Actually I know a story regarding something on those lines....

I have an aunt who lives in Ireland, and my parents from time to time go over and visit her on holiday. One day my parents ended up in a pub to have a spot of lunch and a drink, it turned out though that there was a gathering of certain activists on the IRA side having a chat and discussing things that were private and especially not for the ears of English folk. So... The Pub owner said sorry to my parents and that unfortunately they couldn't actually be in the pub at that time. He also said that the pub across the road was a nice pub and as a matter of apology to tell the landlord he had sent them and that the first drink was to be on him.

(V): I was half expecting you to say that shortly after they moved to the other pub a bomb exploded at the previous one.

Artful Dodger: ..."On the other hand, the Israelis recognized the PLO and not the rights of
the Palestinians, and accepted the existence of a Palestinian people
(for the time being) as an ethnic minority and not as a people with
national rights. For some this seemed as a great victory, but for others
it was clear that the PLO leadership was more preoccupied with form rather
than content.

As matters stand now, the PLO gave up its right to a free Palestine. It
switched camp: it is not opposing imperialism anymore. In return, the
Palestinians were acknowledged as an ethnic minority with no political
rights, and THE ARAB REGIMES COULD WASH THEIR HANDS OF ANY PAN ARAB RESPONSIBLITY TOWARDS PALESTINE....


Apples and oranges? Both fighting another religion, both fighting for the end of occupation by a 'foreign' country, both wars so much based on old hates, fences, border guards, car bombs, mortars, assasinations... and a supposed civilised country giving aid to those who would kill terrorist supporters and activists in the style of info on who and where they are, as opposed to a foreign country blocking international intervention causing the war to continue leading to the death of both friendly and hostile people.

And ahhh yes... The USA supplying money and arms free (through private citizens) to the IRA, and to Israel supplying guns through the government allowing weapons contracts.

And btw.... whatever happened to compliance of security council resoloution 242 and the compliance of it?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6604775898578139565&ei