http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5guoJNWcIU4


Tell the soldiers who's base was bombed in the middle of an English town that the IRA were ok. The buildings that were bombed are still boarded up. The roads that everyone in the area uses are only about 50 yards away.

... I heard recently in looking up on Northern Ireland and need help with understanding Peter King(R-NY) ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRv-dyAZ0SY

Islamic terrorists are no.11 on the list of terror groups in the USA.. the KKK and white supremacists groups rate higher on the threat meter!!!!

A bomb has been made safe in the Republic of Ireland just hours before the Queen's visit.

It was discovered on a bus outside the Glen Royal Hotel in Maynooth, County Kildare at 2130 BST on Monday.

It was later made safe by an Irish army bomb disposal team.

An Irish army bomb disposal unit is dealing with a suspect device at Dublin's Phoenix Park. A suspect package found earlier near the Luas tram line at Inchicore was a hoax.

A suspicious device found at Fairview Park in Dublin also turned out to be a hoax.

The alerts came ahead of the Queen's historic trip to the Irish Republic.

Speaking on BBC NI's Good Morning Ulster, Irish prime minister Enda Kenny condemned those who left the bomb.

"Obviously, the Garda authorities working together with the Brtiish authorities in respect of safety for the Queen have put in place a really serious operation in respect of safeguarding the Queen," he said.

"The vast, vast majority of people here welcome the visit of the Queen and her party. We hope that they will have a very enjoyable time here."

Artful Dodger: what with.... their bare hands against guns and gunships?

Propaganda

Artful Dodger: Sure.. more propaganda from the depths of the American proletariat.

"They bomb Israel all day long and you are silent."

No they don't.. It's become another Northern Ireland. But this time it ain't the British Army and gov supporting the loyalists (in secret *cough*) but the USA allowing Israel to reply to attacks at a killing rate far in excess of what the Palestinians or others can achieve or want to do. At least in Northern Ireland most of the fighting was by small guerilla groups not a fully equipped modern army.

All the time small minority governments (and royal families) keep eating the oil gravy train, oil companies make loads of cash and more people keep dying just for some to say "it's fair because they did it"

Übergeek 바둑이: shhhh it's not allowed to be said that Israel has nukes.. as well as probably having chemical and biological weapons capability.

After watching a nazi war movie on the ghetto's in Poland... I would have though that in itself would lead the Israelis away from such policies. Resistance is a natural progression of being made to live in what are virtually prison camps.

Übergeek 바둑이: The UN has passed many resolution regarding Israel... but the USA always blocks them. It is noted (according to wikipedia.org) ...."that the strategic relationship with the United States encourages Israel to pursue aggressive and expansionist policies and practices".

But I've heard that Israel pays well to US officials that help support their ways. It would be nice if the UN was the security between the two sides, yet that would have to mean the legality of any UN actions against either side has to be recognised by both sides.

... which is unlikely to happen.

Übergeek 바둑이: Mmmmakes you think that some in the USA think the Tea Party will fix everything.......

"My wife has a headache." "It is Obama's fault!"."Here, watch a Tea Party video. That'll fix it!!"

EuroVision is on!! not to be confused with Intervision

Artful Dodger: Do those figures/interpretation include allowances for natural variations or are they just playing with figures again while focussing on the extreme figures.

N' why include Obama??

Artful Dodger: But they have in ... "Regional newspaper La Opinion said the suspect had received treatment at the psychiatric unit of a local hospital in February after being involved in previous violent incidents."

Seeing things again.. head chopping is an old tradition, yet the French found the guillotine a much more accurate and humane method.

Czuch: At the moment I think they are more occupied thought wise by what's happening in the Middle East. With the news of more deaths in Syria from open use of live ammunition..... With one Muslim faith (like the problems between Catholics and Protestants in Northern Ireland) in power and killing protesters of another Muslim faith.. It's already led to tension in factions in neighbouring Lebanon.

N' yes... Many do resent the US.... quite frankly I'd be very surprised after what has been going on over the last half decade at least if they didn't. You don't just make 50 years of being used just vanish from millions of people.

So what is to be said of a Country that has over 80% citizens believing in one religion, of that 80%+ just under half believe in that religions book being literal and that all other faiths are false and are going to hell?

Übergeek 바둑이: If I remember Turkey was to be a base for USA nuclear weapons, but as a concession to the USSR not pressing to base nukes in Cuba such deployment was scrapped. It is still an important country due to it's location.

As a member of NATO it has supported via troops and logistics NATO and UN missions.

Artful Dodger: Is that how your guy describes the Turkish war of independence resulting in the Sultan, etc being exiled?

10. Reagan helped create the Taliban and Osama Bin Laden. Reagan fought a proxy war with the Soviet Union by training, arming, equipping, and funding Islamist mujahidin fighters in Afghanistan. Reagan funneled billions of dollars, along with top-secret intelligence and sophisticated weaponry to these fighters through the Pakistani intelligence service. The Talbian and Osama Bin Laden — a prominent mujahidin commander — emerged from these mujahidin groups Reagan helped create, and U.S. policy towards Pakistan remains strained because of the intelligence services’ close relations to these fighters. In fact, Reagan’s decision to continue the proxy war after the Soviets were willing to retreat played a direct role in Bin Laden’s ascendancy.

However, Reagan—and those around him—can be blamed for ignoring the rise of Islamic militancy in Afghanistan and for failing to see Gorbachev's offer to withdraw as an opportunity to clamp the danger. Certainly, the danger was, or should have been, clear. Only a few years had passed since the Ayatollah Khomeini rose to power in Iran—the shah toppled, the U.S. Embassy employees held hostage, the country turned over to the mullahs, the region suddenly destabilized. Reagan beat Jimmy Carter so decisively in the 1980 election in part because of the hostage crisis.

Gorbachev had accepted that Afghanistan would become an Islamic country. But he assumed that Reagan, of all people, would have an interest in keeping it from becoming militantly, hostilely, Islamist.

In September 1987, after the previous spring's escalation failed to produce results, Soviet Foreign Minister Edvard Shevardnadze met with Secretary of State George Shultz to tell him that Gorbachev planned to pull out of Afghanistan soon. He asked Shultz for help in containing the spread of "Islamic fundamentalism." Shultz had nothing to say. Most Reagan officials doubted Gorbachev would really withdraw, and they interpreted the warnings about Muslim radicals as a cover story for the Soviet Union's military failure.

By this time, Reagan and Gorbachev had gone some distance toward ending the Cold War. The dramatic moment would come the following spring, during the summit in Moscow, when Reagan declared that the U.S.S.R. was no longer an "evil empire." At the same time, though, the U.S. national-security bureaucracy—and, in many ways, Reagan himself—continued to view the world through Cold War glasses.

After the last Soviet troops departed, Afghanistan fell off the American radar screen. Over the next few years, Shevardnadze's worst nightmares came true. The Taliban rose to power and in 1996 gave refuge to the—by then—much-hunted Bin Laden.

From..

http://thinkprogress.org/2011/02/05/reagan-centennial/
http://www.slate.com/id/2102243/

Übergeek 바둑이: He beat the intelligence system via low tech. So much is reliant on electronic devices and he made them useless.

Czuch: It was in one the attached articles to the main story of the killing on the BBC news site. From August in 2010 they "concluded it was being used to shelter a 'high-value target', perhaps even Bin Laden."

From what I have read, there was only a high percentage chance it was Bin Laden and of the three proposals it was decided to send troops in as at least then they could identify who was there.

I think in the end it was a case of find out if is... if not.. look elsewhere. That might explain why non lethal weaponry was not engaged at the time of capture.

Artful Dodger: Don't they teach clean killing when it comes to hunting. Isn't it considered bad form to torture an animal in the act of killing?

War is part of our world.. we have to live with that.

I know sometimes you have to kill someone. But if we think we should not treat animals cruely... how is it possible that a sane person thinks it's then ok to torture a human.

By whose standards.. Conservatism here supports the NHS... yet Conservatism in the USA says they do not.

.. After all Democrats use to be Republicans,, the progressives were in the Republican party. Reminds me of talk after the UK's civil war many centuries ago.

Politics (Artful Dodger, 2009-02-01 19:41:18)

1. February 2009, 18:41:18
[Artful Dodger, United States, Brain Rook (forever), Male] Artful Dodger (hide)
show this user posts | show thread | link
Subject: Re:When the economy worsens, and when Obama's popularity falls, they will see we were right.
Bwild:Not in a million years. They'll blame Bush or the Republicans. I suspect some of the nuts on the left will find ways to continue to blame Bush even into the next decade!
Reply (box)

.................... does that not mean Bush can't take any credit either.. especially after another TWO more years??

I get confused here.. Republicans, especially Tea party members seem to keep changing their minds!!!!

Former George W. Bush administration intelligence and national security officials tell The Daily Caller that the intelligence President Barack Obama acted on when authorizing the mission to kill al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden was likely obtained during enhanced interrogations and/or at the Guantanamo Bay (Gitmo) detention facilities.

....such official, Steve Yates, who worked for Vice President Dick Cheney until 2005, said the intelligence had to have come from detainees one way or another.....

....Cully Stimson, a former pentagon official during the Bush administration and current Heritage Foundation senior legal fellow, told TheDC that he doesnt think its clear yet how the intelligence was obtained or where the detainees who provided important intelligence for the operation were held, and he isnt sure if it will ever be clear. I think the possibilities include the following: one, Guantanamo detainees, two, CIA detainees, but, remember, there were just under 100 of them, we only brought 14 to Guantanamo. It could have resulted from enhanced interrogation techniques. It could have resulted from waterboarding, which only three were waterboarded. It could have resulted from direct questioning by FBI agents early on....

I would have thought that the CIA were able to watch Bin Laden for monthsrather than "16 Hours" (less than one day) suggests information gathering on who Bin Laden was communicating with. That time I would have thought beats a few hours of waterboarding any day of a minor official.

In the end.. a decision over how much longer to watch and when to kill is something to think about. He wasn't exactly going to escape.. unless it is implied that the CIA are that rubbish they can't keep track of one man who doesn't leave one room.

1 New Yorker's web enterprise.. 10,000 units in 2 days.

CIA agents lived in spy house near Bin Laden's compound for MONTHS in most intricate operation in agency's history

The CIA spied on Osama bin Laden for months from its own top-secret safehouse in Abbottabad, it has been revealed.

In one of the most intricate intelligence operations in CIA history, spies moved in to a property next door to Bin Laden's fortified compound to establish his 'pattern of life'.

The surveillance operation was so extensive that the CIA was forced to go cap in hand to Congress in December to ask for tens of millions of dollars more funding, which was met by creaming money from a variety of other agency budgets.

U.S officials refused to reveal how many agents were part of the close-quarters surveillance team but were at pains to stress the remarkable levels of care required because Bin Laden would flee the moment suspicions were aroused.

They used every possible means to gather information, including Pakistani informants, satellite images, telephoto lenses and listening devices in an attempt to record Bin Laden and his cohorts.

However, Bin Laden was so adept at hiding that the CIA admit to admiring his commitment, having rejected the suspicious-looking trappings of bodyguards and vehicles.

According to Pakistan security officials, the al Qaeda leader spent the last five years living in the same room of his mansion where he was shot and killed by U.S. forces.

The claims were made by the terrorist leader's wife, who apparently told interrogators that she and her husband had not left the same room for the past half a decade.

Artful Dodger: You mean he's showing morals regarding war on terror. OMG what a propaganda result for the war against recruitment agents for Al Qaeda. That the USA government is following moral standards set out in the Bible and Qu'ran is going to annoy Americans!!

Bernice: Brown.. yes. But Blair is a more complex case and there is tradition.

Blair was a major player in the end of the 'war' in Northern Ireland, he also persuaded Ghaddafi to stop his nuclear ambitions.. the idea of Ghaddafi having nukes at the moment... not nice.

One of my Grandparents was "nobodies, commoners, untitled, did nothing spectacular in life." .. well apart from a couple of little things.... He got invited to the Queen's Coronation.

.. A thorn in the memory of a political party of one Commonwealth country.

Maggie has a title.... wow... hardly uncommon in the UK's system of government.

Artful Dodger: 2000 years ago (roughly) didn't Christ offer another way.. or are we too irresponsible to be responsible?

Übergeek 바둑이: As in DeAtH.. no. Political suicide by the will of the people or their parties.. and some time removed (as happens) more will come out.

"Our leaders support fascists, dictators and despotic kings when it is politically and economically convenient."

I cannot dispute that.. I wouldn't try. Yet thankfully thanks to an invention by a UK national we can web it and/or it gets reported. So much has come out that regardless of the limitation of "remits" we can see around so much of the bull.

"Then we went to war, not to save Iraqi people, but to make sure our big oil companies made fat profits."

Not entirely true, as mentioned before I think Iraq was an easy victory for the American war machine, while Afghanistan is another Vietnam kinda combat. Blair truly thought Saddam was an evil person. Maybe a debt was thought after the uprising that was encouraged and then left about 250,000 Iraqi's in Saddam's hit list book.

And as you said.. oil.

Thankfully some people have come up with ways around that now to be archaic system of powering transport. Some guy in the UK for years has been for years making bio fuel at home from old chip fat.. nano batteries are just around the corner.

.. Give it time, we might even see the rise of the mighty eco companies in our lifetime

Übergeek 바둑이: Sorry, but I find that an exaggeration.

"Then they want to put several Lybians on trial for crimes against humanity, but then, who judges the emperors?"

Our countries do, that's why there have been several inquiries in to the Iraq war and it's legitimacy. That's why (or so the rumour goes) Blair and Brown were not invited to the recent royal wedding.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-13252192

Czuch: Aye.. and if anyone has seen a DNA test on "who is the father" they can compare family DNA to his.

Ian Tomlinson unlawfully killed by Pc at G20 protests

Ian Tomlinson was unlawfully killed by a Metropolitan Police officer at the G20 protests, an inquest jury has said. The 47-year-old collapsed and died after he was hit by a baton and pushed to the ground by Pc Simon Harwood at the protests in London on 1 April 2009.

His family said the verdict was a "huge relief", while the Crown Prosecution Service could reopen criminal proceedings against Pc Harwood. The officer said after the verdict he had not intended to push him over.

The jury decided Pc Harwood acted illegally, recklessly and dangerously, and used "excessive and unreasonable" force in striking Mr Tomlinson.

Jurors added that the newspaper seller, who was not taking part in the protests, posed no threat.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-13268633

Übergeek 바둑이: Distraction is part of the war on terror.

Iamon lyme: Or you, who knows.. Jerome Corsi might solve who killed Kenny beyond a shadow of doubt. The Genesis arguers might wander if Eden is a historical tale and how man will see it again... but not in our lifetime.

But that's all cyclic talk

Iamon lyme: What is your question.. do you know?? The President didn't pamper to conspiracy theory... oh no.... it's Watergate all over again!!

", because there would be no speculation to put to rest. He didn't just control the story, he inspired it."

Yes there would be.. the programming has been very subtle you probably missed it.

Iamon lyme: Ok.. you are dodging a fact of life to somehow make art of your conspiracy theory? ..............

Is that what that Jerome Corsi does in his books, like the responsibility dodging extreme right wing sites.. "it's all Obama's fault.. the rest of history did not happen. Oh noooooo"

Tuesday: Unfortunately the Pakistanis have a distrust of the USA from being used as a "toy" in the past and then just dumped. Opinions generally of those who were leaving comments (from the site running a comments section) was trust had to be rebuilt. That Pakistan was not again being used as a "toy".

Tuesday: Hiding in plain..ish sight. He blended in with what I gather from the BBC news site were "ethnic Pashtun" who

"......are known to keep their women in strict purdah and that would explain the silence from that house. The Taliban are largely ethnically Pashtun and many come from the tribal areas in north-west Pakistan." ........ (to stop confusion with other ethnic groups in Pakistan)....

A bit embarrassing the compound of unusually high walls and security was only a few hundred yards from the Pakistan Military Academy. One could recon he had help from 'locals'.

Zeeshan, Islamabad, Pakistan
............Just viewed the international media and what is the most shocking and disappointing thing to me is that there is not a single word of appreciation for Pakistan and its sacrifices.

Not a single word of thanks for the Pakistani nation and its army. How disgusting!

The most sacrifices and efforts in the war on terror are and have been by Pakistan; and without the support of Pakistan, all this success of the US would be near to impossible. At least give a word of appreciation for the hundreds and thousands of martyred Pakistanis who have died in the war on terror.


Elog, Kabul, Afghanistan
..........his is a great news for every peace-wanting human being. The backbone of al-Qaeda is broken. We knew the culprit from the beginning.

I wish the anti-terrorism alliance could have listened to us a few years back, so they could have hunted the right person, at the right time and in the right place.

Artful Dodger: N' I'm quite sure there are some extreme Muslim groups feeling like you do.

Shame that blood lust needs millions of deaths.

Iamon lyme: So.. you are saying he has a driver licence and yet all these conspiracy theories kept on being given probability space in extremists heads!! What is going on in right wing land to be able to let it be such big news.

Some UK journalists recon it's took take the lime light off events in the Middle East as yet another USA supported gov gets heavy handed with it's people!!

Bernice: Nobody is in a particularly good state at the moment. Not the UK (England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland).. nor the USA or Australia. And yes.. the wedding might be capable of generating a few 100 million pounds in tourist and service industry income within the UK and the rest of the world via logistics, etc.

Our growth GDP last year was not much less then your own countries. Also just as the snow last year effected the last quarter figures in the UK it is expected that Australia's latest growth results to be either 0% or less due to Mother Nature's hand.

Iamon lyme: Well, I'm looking at several estimates and taking an average of those estimates.. as I doubt at this present time a accurate figure can be obtained.. takes a few weeks or so for the police to cook their expenses!!

"think Bernice was telling me how much tax payers pay every year to keep the royal family in business."

Yes.. well. lol that cherry picked figure ignores the income (in excess of £260 million) that the UK Treasury gets from the Royal Family each year... ie $520,0000.000 .

.. It don't matter to extreme right wingers as it doesn't to extreme anti government groups. They are present in the USA and certain figures suggest a 25% "still don't believe" figure despite the release and confirmation of Obama's long birth cert.

LONDON — The royal wedding brought mixed results to retail, as the London crowds opted for Champagne, Pimm’s-fuelled celebrations and outdoor pursuits rather than shopping on Friday. But as soon as the celebrations were over, the shoppers and tourists came out in force.

“Friday was mixed, with tourists watching the wedding and celebrating,” said Jace Tyrell, communications director of the New West End Company, which represents businesses around Oxford, Regent and Bond Streets.

“But weekend sales have risen almost in the double-digits compared with last year from the influx of tourists. Between last Easter weekend and this one, we’re looking at a very good April.”

Stores including Selfridges, Jack Wills, and Burberry all saw a rise in footfall from the festivities.

“Pre-wedding day, our food hall saw some of our highest store traffic with sales to match in convenience, fresh, party food and cakes as well as fine wine, Champagne and spirits,” said Meave Wall, the store’s director.

“Throughout the weekend, fashion and accessories, including shoes, performed well and royal wedding memorabilia continued to sell through even post-wedding as customers were keen to secure a memento of this historic day,” she added.

Indeed, the tourist shops in town were stripped bare of mugs, t-shirts, and tea towels — the British name for a dishcloth. “We ran out of them and can’t get them anywhere now,” said one store owner in central London.

“The tourists come in to buy them as a cheap gift for friends back home, but the English all come in saying they need them to mop up the champagne at their parties,” he added. Jack Wills, the British brand that’s a favourite among posh college-aged students — more youthful versions of the royal couple — said sales in the run up to the wedding had been fantastic.

“Tourism was certainly a contributing factor, but the media interest surrounding the Jack Wills set — because of the wedding — definitely helped spur sales,” said a company spokesperson.

full article


I mean.. I was in London the day before ...only takes 30 mins by train, on the way back I stopped by Westminster and it was packed. Americans everywhere

Iamon lyme: Because as the statistics show .. it don't matter. A percentage will always feel he's lying. Regardless of it being written in mile high letters (see God's final message to the universe) they would still would not believe him. This is the reality of how brainwashed some people are in America, it's called extremism. It's present in all Countries.

As to the wedding.. yes we pay for the security, which was from various estimates about £40,000,000 (tops, Bernices figure ) yet at the same time created from the event 100's of millions in tourism revenue.

You did know that tourism from international travellers was £9,000,000,000 last year to London.

The Col: Never does in such conflicts... remember, we had Northern Ireland. In the end it didn't matter who did what as they all sides (IRA/Loyalists/Army/British Gov/ Irish supporters) .. and the rest of supporting 'actors' had blood on their hands. We still today have "The Real IRA" (who are not the real IRA) killing even after all the major parties have said "enough".

The Col: Aye, the Palestinians should. As to it being an opinion on the land nicking.. I'm basing my opinion on UN statements regarding the Gaza strip and West Bank. Even the Israeli government has admitted (through watching documentaries on the problem) that in some cases Israeli Jews are taking land that even they have a problem accepting the rationality of the rogue settlements.

Pouring petrol onto embers is not a good way of putting a fire out.

The Col: True.... I would expect Hamas to condemn the killing, but they are an extreme group. Unfortunately as long as Israel keeps nicking Palestinian land they will get a voice.