The Col: It would seem so. BBC news is reporting that "..... Col Muammar Gaddafi is seeking to convince Western powers to accept a plan which would see him cede powers to his son, Saif al-Islam, for a transitional period of two to three years in return for a ceasefire. A Libyan official the pan-Arab newspaper that Saif al-Islam Gaddafi had discussed the proposal with US, British and Italian diplomats. He is said to have also wanted assurances that the Gaddafi family would not face prosecution...."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/9438022.stm

The Col:

> I'll bet Gadhafi is shak'n now

How heroic of our Canadian military to be lackeys for Nato. I am sure they really care about civilians, specially when Qatar just announced that they are ready to start shipping oil from East Lybia. I am really, really sure western oil companies will make no money once Gaddafi leaves power. And I am sure that all the oil money will really go to help poor Lybians, rather than fatten the pockets of oil company executives. Well, it is western style democracy, which means do whatever makes the monopolies rich.

Übergeek 바둑이: Would you rather have Gaddafi's progrom continue? Yes the rebels have said oil will flow and of course us in the west will get the oil.... but in the end result will be one less dictator and murderer in power.

(V):

To be replaced by whom? An oil company executive like Hamid Karzai in Afghanistan? Or by a bank embezzler like Ahmad Chalabi in Iraq? What guarantee is there that he will not be replaced by a corrupt puppet or another dictator?

Like I said before, I don't see our western power doing ANYTHING to change Saudi Arabia. According to the opposition inBahrain 250 have been detained and 44 are missing following the protests there:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20110328/wl_nm/us_bahrain_arrests_1

"Earlier this month, Bahrain's Sunni rulers, the al-Khalifa family, imposed martial law and called in troops from fellow Sunni-ruled Gulf neighbors, including top oil exporter Saudi Arabia, to quell weeks of unrest during pro-democracy protest led by mostly Shi'ite demonstrators."

Will they bomb that country too? I doubt it because they sell cheap oil the way our western empires want. That is the only difference. It is all about oil. Anything else is nothing but empty ideological excuses. Democracy counts only when it gives western monopolies a business advantage.

Joe Biden comes and urges the Bahrain monarchy to hold talks with the opposition.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20110327/pl_afp/bahrainpoliticsunrestus_20110327165457

So the world's hypocrites say "lets hold talks in Bahrain, and let's bomb Lybia". Nice double standard.

Übergeek 바둑이: as always.. the human nature 's dark side prevails.. double standards been happening that way forever.

Übergeek 바둑이: What guarantee is there he will be replaced by another dictator? It might be that at least with this 'battle' the peoples revolt might actually work!! It would be worse if the NATO forces left the rebels to one like Ghaddafi? Do you remember the Iraqi uprising that was encouraged by the west and then let down in terms of logistical support? Saddam massacred the rebels.

I know Saudi Arabia is going through it's revolution and people are and will be killed, detained, etc... Unfortunately we have 'Iraq', North Korea amongst others which have drained Trillions of $ and tied up a fair proportion of troops.

I don't see no magic wand suddenly ending those commitments.

As one friend once said.. it's like peeling an onion with a strawberry at the middle.

(V):

The kings of Bahrain figured that the protesters were dangerous to his regime, so he ordered the army to send in anti-riot police. They shot at the demonstrators, threw tear gas at them and detained over 250, 44 of which have disappeared. Then Joe Biden comes out and says that talks is the way to go. What about providing logistical support to those protesters? Are we leaving them to the wolves, like you said we did in Iraq?

> Unfortunately we have 'Iraq', North Korea amongst others which have drained Trillions of $ and tied up a fair proportion of troops.

So we can spare money and planes for Libya. We can send weapons to the rebels (in case anyone noticed, those rebels are armed to the teeth. I wonder who supplied the weapons.)

I think we are just making excuses for our double standard. Bahrain is OK because they run big banking consortiums and sell cheap oil. Libya is not, because Gaddafi nationalized the oil industry. I don't buy the pro-democracy ideology. I suppose it is acceptable to let Bahrain oppress its population because they are mostly Shia muslims. Libya is a different story. We do oil deals with Gaddafi when it is politically and economically convenient, and when it is convenient we bomb him too. Maybe I am the only who sees oil as the main motivation in all of this. If Libya had no oil, would any of this be happening? Would any of our governments care?

Übergeek 바둑이: Quite honestly ... I don't think they can stop at least some changes. It might be another Solidarity

.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solidarity_%28Polish_trade_union%29 ..... type movement. Some deaths are inevitable.. But it worked.

"If Libya had no oil, would any of this be happening? Would any of our governments care?"

Not as much quite probably. ... .. but use citizens would. And we still as humans 'aid'.

(V): Funny how times have changed.... if it was Bush and not Obama, seriously???

Czuch: If you are referring to Bush I then yes.. funny old world. After the war to free Kuwait the Iraqi's were encouraged to rebel with the understanding they would get support when they did. They didn't get the support.

So not exactly the same.

Übergeek 바둑이: "If Libya had no oil, would any of this be happening?"
of course not.