bobwhoosta: hey bob i know you're a maven .not only your chip total .but i either observed or played in a group with ya. yeah bob that would be right on when playing with card players . i had 1 4 i bet 50 pre flop .i got the ace with 2 no help cards 2 guys are in with me . i increase the bet as there are no straights or flush happening. these 2 guys are calling me . river i go all in .both called .one had a 48 the other bubkus .yet they called my every bet & all in . i made over a G . look when 2 pair , 789 3 or four of a suit. its hard to gauge .i had a guy call my turn 300 bet nut 2 pair he had 3 10 of hearts .& was rewarded with flush. players betting out preflop then check or they're out. on these tables you gotta throw away the book. if you bet early all go out they play the hand to river .if they bet then they pulled something . they will call you all the way down the line. good to talk to a card player. were there big games back in the day ha ha i meant the totals amassed astound me. you must have had a good crew big games. or played for 15 yrs (: anyway g/l to you .maybe run into you in a group game. mookster