Rose: yes I saw all the overdue tournies and I thought why are they just not deleted? Some looked like parts had started but other parts of it were still open to signing up but maybe I was imagining that

SafariGal: It's all about the perception of fairness. I posted about this subject on the BrainKing discussion board around the first or second week of February. It all got lost in a big brouhaha caused by an unrelated subject on February 14th.

I proposed letting the tournament organizer keep the profit and giving Fencer a cut of it. I also said to let the organizer be able to set the profit at whatever level he wanted, including no profit at all or even letting him put extra in for a larger purse.

You presently can sponsor a prize tournament yourself without a fee. And notice, these tournaments are widely attended. The fee-to-enter tournaments with a 30% cut seems too high for just about everyone. Fencer did propose adding month extensions for every ten positions filled in the tournament.

I would change the current set up and let the tournament creator set the percentages to whatever levels he likes and for more places. If the total is less than 100%, he shares it with Fencer, say 75%/25% Creator to Fencer. All types of percentages would be tried, but eventually people would enter those tournaments they thought were fair for themselves. I personally would not enter one that took more than 10% out unless I figured my chances of winning a placing prize were very good.

Then there's the problem of the Brains themselves. Not everyone has them yet. This causes the fee-to-enter tournaments to not get started because of lack of people joining. The pool of people with Brains is small. I have 50 Brains. What am I supposed to do with them?

WEBSAIM backgammon tournament 6(Top 135 Players)

top 135 players Hyper gammon and Back gammon 23 may

qusar is the Number "1", among 7 players of the tournament 'Top 10% Faster Backgammoners for 2006-04 (Nackgammon)'

Top 10% Faster Backgammoners for 2006-04

Congratulations qusar!

Thanks to all other players!

Top 10% Faster Backgammoners for 2006-04

small live tournament, some games random

tyv noj: what does it mean when it says random game? does that just mean that no one knows what it will be until it starts? even the creator?

SafariGal: Yes

Unrated Connection

Salkkuman: on closer inspection it gives a list of a few types of games, does that mean the creator gets to choose a list and the game will be one of the games on the list?

exactly, and which game of those on the list is played is desided randomly. and the tournament would have started when 4 players would have signed up ;)

tyv noj: that is an excellent idea

WEBSAIM backgammon tournament 7(>2200)

qusar is the Number "1", among 6 players of the tournament
'Top 10% Faster Backgammoners for 2006-04 (Backgammon Race)'

Congratulations qusar!

Thanks to all other players!

Tepedeki %10 - Hızlı Tavlacılar 2006-04

I thought I'd set up some Single Elimination for 4 players.



Ludo for 4 - single elimination #10
1 day moves, NO DAYS OFF!

Ludo for 4 - single elimination #11
1 day moves, NO DAYS OFF!

Ludo for 4 - single elimination #12
1 day moves, NO DAYS OFF!

Ludo for 4 - single elimination #13
1 day moves, NO DAYS OFF

Ludo for 4 - single elimination #14
1 day moves, NO DAYS OFF

RandomGammdon #5
Random game types: Backgammon, Nackgammon, Crowded Backgammon, Hyper Backgammon
1 day moves. NO days off. 2 more people needed~

Eriisa: okay, its filled!

I would like to suggest that elimination tournaments are not going to be deleted if the destined number of players were not reached. Currently you can't set a minimum number when you set up an elimination tournament, so if you set it up with 16 players, it will be deleted if only 15 have joined. Why not give one player a bye in the first round and let the others play? It's an elimination anyway, so from round two on it will be no difference any more. One could set 4 players as a system default minimum number, and every tournament with more entries will start as usual.

I would like to create a tournament of Ambiguous Chess and offer a prize money in brains equivalent to a 1-year rook membership (without entry fee). I suppose that I must create the tournament with the "prize money" flag, and then buy the corresponding amount of brains. Am I correct ?
And two more questions :
Am I correct that a brain rook account costs 750 brains (25x30 EUR) ?
If not enough players join, will I get the brains back ?

nabla: You don't need to use Brains for that. Just select the prize checkbox when you create the tournament and then use the standard Paid Membership page to pay for the prize. That's all.
I don't think there would be a problem with not enough players.

Fencer: It is just that I prefer to offer brains, that can be used either for a membership either for something else - for instance, black rooks would not care about winning a one-year membership
And you don't know what minimum number of players I will set

nabla: If you are going to provide the price (that is with no entry fee), then you can offer just about anything you want. If you would like to offer brains instead of membership, then just make sure you put that in the description of the tournament you create.

Then when you send money (PayPal) to Fencer to cover the brains, just make sure you let him know that you are using it to buy "brains" to use as a prize.

(Of course, then the winner could just use the brains to upgrade his membership if they wanted to - then again, if a person wins a membership, I'm sure Fencer would also let them trade it in for brains.... Fencer is usually pretty flexable about things like that)

Maybe you could offer the choice of XXX Brains or XX membership that the winner can choose from (which of course cost the same amount of money for each)

= = = = =

As a side note, Ambiguouse Chess (NEW GAME!!!!) looks pretty interesting. I'm not a chess player, but always like to try new games. Everyone should Check Out The Current Ambiguous Chess Tournaments!

Hum... and of course the new game before that, Breakthrough - Some of those tournaments

Fencer's been pretty busy lately - Great job Fencer!

kleineme: Remember that you can set a number of days for the tourney to wait after the start date. What I do is set mine for something around 7 days, and then watch to see if I need to extend it. I also check the 'start imeediately when filled' box.

Eriisa: Yes, you're right :) But my suggestion is about those tournaments who will never be filled, at least not with the number of players the tourney creator has set up. Take a look at this one: random elimination wild chess. The original starting date was May, 1st, currently nine players have joined, and unless a miracle happens the tourney will be deleted at the end of May. Why not let those nine play, regardless whether the 16 participants are reached or not. I would like to play and I wouldn't mind if I get a bye in the first round, and I would assume that the others won't care either. At least we could play from round two on ;)

kleineme: I see what you mean. If it was my tourney, I was edit the start day and extend it, so it won't be deleted.

The only problem with letting the 9 play, is that 9 cannot be divided by two, so who will the 9th person play against???? The Single Elimination game type pairs off the players so it must be an even number.

I did have one elim tourney that I had set up a while ago, that was set for 16 players and only 8 signed up. I sent Fencer a PM and he edited the tourney for me and changed the 16 to 8 so it could start.

But 9 players wouldn't work, so that option's out.

Eriisa: I think you don't see what he means, Eriisa. Think again about the concept of "a bye" pls. Ok, I give you a hint http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bye_%28sports%29 ;-)

Eriisa: The idea ist to give random players wildcards for the first round. Maybe one could chose wether to start only if the proper amount of players has signed up, or to start when the deadline passes - no matter how many players are in (well - if there are at least 4 of course)

Mr. Shumway: Sounds interesting and strange at the same time as usually everybody here has a wild card, that means can participate in tournaments without qualification. Would there be a diference to an invitation? Or did you just mix things up a bit because of the tournament's name kleineme mentioned?

gringo: But not everybody has a wildcard for the second round. You normally have to qualifiy for it by winning a 1st round match.

gringo: Why not seed the tournament and give the higher rated players a bye? Then the next round would start with a power of two number of players. Simple solution and it will get every tournament of the single elimination type started on time.

16 player tournament, but only 11 sign up. The deadline passes. Now you take the player's ratings and pair them up to add to 17 as they're ranked. 1-16, 2-15, 3-14, 13-4, 12-5, 11-6, 10-7, 8-9. As there isn't any players numbered 16, 15, 14, 13, or 12 players 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, would get a first round bye. Round two would start with 1 versus winner of 8-9. 2 versus winner of 10-7, 3 versus winner of 11-6. 4 versus 5.

The first round in a 11 entrant single elimination tournament would have three games played amongst the lower rated seeds. The three winners would continue on and the second round would have four games with the eight remaining players.

This can done for any number of entrants, odd or even. After one round the power of two number of people are left in the tournament and it will always work out at the end. Fencer should look into doing this. The tournament creator could have a 32 player tournament with 21 entrants and just have it start when the deadline passes.

I believe a few people posted earlier on this site about how brackets and seeding work. It's a real simple process.

BIG BAD WOLF: Thank you for the help, that is clearer now !

Walter Montego: there is a problem though with rating people in random tournaments .. how do you rate the players in a tournament which choses the games randomly from all possible game types ?
(or from just the line types, or the gammon types)

i dont know how the seeding is done nowadays with the random tournaments

Play Ambiguous Chess for a 1-year rook membership !

Hrqls: I hadn't thought of the random game type tournaments. I can think of a few ways.

One way would be to seed them randomly!

Another way depends on how the actual game to be played first is chosen. Does everyone in the tournament play the same game in the first round? If so, after the game is chosen the players could be ranked and seeded by the rating they have in that game. For the second round, you could re-seed the field or keep it as is.

A third way would be for the games to be played to be picked for each round in advance and then the total rating to be used for the seeding. Whether or not the game order is revealed to players if it is done this way would be up to the tournament creator.

I'm sure some other ways can be thought up. I like the second way that I just made up of these three ideas. Allowing the tournament to be started after the deadline with a pared down list could also be done. Say you have a 32 player tournament, but only 21 sign up by the deadline. Even after the deadline is extended it is still 21 entrants, start the tournament with the top 16 seeds. Yes, the ranking and seeding of them is a problem for a random game, but idea number two would work for that too.

Walter Montego: random seeds would give random byes

i like the idea of giving each player in a round the same type of game .. it takes away some factor which is in the random tournaments now though and less different game types would be played in the total tournament (by all players combined) (i think its nice when a lot of different games are player because it gives more established ratings, in the end ;))

another option would be to average the rating over all possible game types and use that average .. it can be wrong though when there are some unrated types in the average .. i dont know whats done with the seeding of unrated players in normal tournaments now?

alanback is the Number "1", between 6 good players of the tournament 'Top 10% Faster Backgammoners for 2006-04 (Crowded Backgammon)'

Top 10% Faster Backgammoners for 2006-04

Congratulations alanback!

Thanks to all other players!

Tepedeki %10 - Hızlı Tavlacılar 2006-04

One question: Why does this (finished) tournament appear in the new tounrament section?

Eastern Bunny

gringo: The Tourney Started Early and When finished it still had time when the creator put the Deadline on...

Daniel Snyder: Thank you, Daniel. But it looks like now it's way over the deadline or not? So is this a bug? Anyway, all these tournaments way over their deadline which I have to browse through for an endless time to see how many more players they need in whatever game to start are really starting to bother me... :-/

Hrqls: The seeding in these tournaments is like in chess instead of in other games. In a 16 player field 1 plays 9, 2 plays 10 and so on. After the first round I don't know how they pair so you would have to ask Fencer. But I would prefer 1-16, 2-15 over the system we use now.

gambler104: The system of seeding a tournament based on the rankings for a single elimination tournament is based on the premise that the final match should be against the number 1 and number 2 rated players. The groupings are done in such a way that this will happen if the higher rated (lower numbered seed) will always win their match in the early rounds. If the lower rated player upsets the higher seed, then they get to carry on in that person's place. They earned it, right?

gambler104: *nod* i prefer that type of seeding as well

the problem with random game types though is that you dont know the ranking of the player, so you cant base the seeding on the ranking

(thanks for posting the way of seeding though, i forgot i asked about that :) i didnt know it was different per game type)

Marfitalu: is there used 'no average' at the moment ? or is there used the rating at which everyone starts ? (which is 1300 ? or 1500 ? or .. ?)

Maybe this should be taken to the Feature Requests board?

Marfitalu: but how is are the players seeded when they are norated ?

MidnightMcMedic: nah .. its not a feature request .. just a discussion about how the tournaments are done

we can take it to another board though if you want, 'brainking' or 'general chat' or any fellowships board :)

MidnightMcMedic: I was under the impression that feature requests or discussions about something that has its own board IE 'tournaments' or 'backgammon' should be brought to that board and not to the 'general' feature requests?

I must have gotten lost in the thread. I thought you guys were asking for a feature to the tournaments. Sorry, carry on with the friendly discussion

New tourneys to sign up for at The Sunshine Club!
☼The Sunshine Club ☼ Gammons / Ludo Tourney
and
☼The Sunshine Club ☼ New Games Tourney