Übergeek 바둑이: Mmmmakes you think that some in the USA think the Tea Party will fix everything.......

"My wife has a headache." "It is Obama's fault!"."Here, watch a Tea Party video. That'll fix it!!"

Thousands of Palestinians marched towards Israel's borders in protest, demanding statehood for the Palestinian people. Israel retaliated by sending tanks and troops with live amunition. The unrest spilled into Egypt where riot police used tear gas and live amunition, wounding several protesters. At the end of the protests Israel had down 15 people and injured 355 people in several locations. This protest was inspired by recent pro-democracy protests in the Middle East, and it was done to mark the aniversary in which Palestinians lost their lands to the newly-formed state of Israel.

The question is, if the international community imposes sanction on Syria, and bombs Lybia, will they do the same to Israel? Or is there a double standard, saying that it is OK to shoot down Palestinians in Israel and Shia Moslems in Bahrain, but it is wrong to shoot down protesters in Syria and Lybia?

Nato has taken sides in the Lybian civil war, not to promote democracy but to ensure that the oil empire remains alive and healthy. Then they impose sanctions on Syria, ignore Bahrain, appease Egypt's military with money, and give Israel carte blanche to do as it wills. We live in a world of imperialist hypocrysy.

Übergeek 바둑이: The UN has passed many resolution regarding Israel... but the USA always blocks them. It is noted (according to wikipedia.org) ...."that the strategic relationship with the United States encourages Israel to pursue aggressive and expansionist policies and practices".

But I've heard that Israel pays well to US officials that help support their ways. It would be nice if the UN was the security between the two sides, yet that would have to mean the legality of any UN actions against either side has to be recognised by both sides.

... which is unlikely to happen.

(V):

I think it goes beyond the USA. Everybody (that means the superpowers, the Security Council, the General Assembly and Nato) have unilaterally sided with Israel. Palestinians get some support from Arab states and to some extent Iran. However, those with the power to bring peace to the region refuse to abandon their one-sided favoritism for Israel. The reasons are historical (the Holocaust as well as prosecution of Jews going back to Roman times) and strategic (western interests in oil and trade routes in the Suez Canal and the Red Sea). It is for this reason that Israel is the largest recepient of military and civilian monetary aid from the USA and Western Europe. The only way taht there is going to be peace there is when both Israelis and Palestinians are treated equally. The problem is that any aid that is given to Palestinians is tied to abandoning armed struggle against Israel. However, a similar demand is not made of Israel. Israel receives the aid, whether they pursue a militaristic policy or not. Israel is no longer a weak, isolated country in the beginnings of its formation. It is now a nuclear power with one of the largest, best trained military forces in the world. Yet western thinking still remains in the Israel of 1948. We need of think of the Israel of 2011, a very different country from what it was 63 years ago.

Übergeek 바둑이: shhhh it's not allowed to be said that Israel has nukes.. as well as probably having chemical and biological weapons capability.

After watching a nazi war movie on the ghetto's in Poland... I would have though that in itself would lead the Israelis away from such policies. Resistance is a natural progression of being made to live in what are virtually prison camps.

Artful Dodger: Sure.. more propaganda from the depths of the American proletariat.

"They bomb Israel all day long and you are silent."

No they don't.. It's become another Northern Ireland. But this time it ain't the British Army and gov supporting the loyalists (in secret *cough*) but the USA allowing Israel to reply to attacks at a killing rate far in excess of what the Palestinians or others can achieve or want to do. At least in Northern Ireland most of the fighting was by small guerilla groups not a fully equipped modern army.

All the time small minority governments (and royal families) keep eating the oil gravy train, oil companies make loads of cash and more people keep dying just for some to say "it's fair because they did it"

Artful Dodger: what with.... their bare hands against guns and gunships?

Propaganda

A bomb has been made safe in the Republic of Ireland just hours before the Queen's visit.

It was discovered on a bus outside the Glen Royal Hotel in Maynooth, County Kildare at 2130 BST on Monday.

It was later made safe by an Irish army bomb disposal team.

An Irish army bomb disposal unit is dealing with a suspect device at Dublin's Phoenix Park. A suspect package found earlier near the Luas tram line at Inchicore was a hoax.

A suspicious device found at Fairview Park in Dublin also turned out to be a hoax.

The alerts came ahead of the Queen's historic trip to the Irish Republic.

Speaking on BBC NI's Good Morning Ulster, Irish prime minister Enda Kenny condemned those who left the bomb.

"Obviously, the Garda authorities working together with the Brtiish authorities in respect of safety for the Queen have put in place a really serious operation in respect of safeguarding the Queen," he said.

"The vast, vast majority of people here welcome the visit of the Queen and her party. We hope that they will have a very enjoyable time here."

... I heard recently in looking up on Northern Ireland and need help with understanding Peter King(R-NY) ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRv-dyAZ0SY

Islamic terrorists are no.11 on the list of terror groups in the USA.. the KKK and white supremacists groups rate higher on the threat meter!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5guoJNWcIU4


Tell the soldiers who's base was bombed in the middle of an English town that the IRA were ok. The buildings that were bombed are still boarded up. The roads that everyone in the area uses are only about 50 yards away.

(V): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04YAkWJw3Js

Pedro Martínez:LMAO!

Pedro Martínez: Awww Pedro, that that is all you find wrong with my post I take as a complement

(V): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOJqAU4sbLg

Pedro Martínez: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afFw91fvNJM

Pedro Martínez: he will never be told.

48:29 Muhammad is the apostle of Allah. and those who are with him are strong against disbelievers, (but) compassionate amongst each other. Thou wilt see them bow and prostrate themselves (in prayer), seeking Grace from Allah and (His) Good Pleasure. On their faces are their marks, (being) the traces of their prostration. This is their similitude in the Taurat; and their similitude in the Gospel is: like a seed which sends forth its blade, then makes it strong; it then becomes thick, and it stands on its own stem, (filling) the sowers with wonder and delight. As a result, it fills the Unbelievers with rage at them. Allah has promised those among them who believe and do righteous deeds forgiveness, and a great Reward.

The Arabic word “ashidda” does not mean ruthless, but strong and firm. Ruthless is an unacceptable translation. Translations of ashidda:

Pickthall: hard; Yusuf Ali: strong; Daryabadi: stern; Khan-Hilali: severe; F. Malik: strong; Shakir: firm of heart; Arberry: hard; Irving: strict

Also, the disbelievers being referred to in these verses are the those who persecuted and attacked the Muslims. Shaykh Fawzee Al-Atharee said the following:
And similarly the disbeliever, if he has good character with us and good manners with us and good way and treatment with us, then we have good manners with him, good behaviour with him, good way with him and good treatment of him. And if his manners are bad and his behaviour is bad [i.e. abusive and cruel], then we treat him with accordance to how he is treating us. This is something permissible in the legislation. But the Prophet s.a.w.s. has indicated very clearly in all the narrations that have been brought and throughout his life, that there must be a matter of balance and to be just. And that is in dealing with the people of disbelief and also in dealing with those who have faith.

The Muslims were commanded to stand up for their religion and defend themselves against the persecution of the disbelievers. Again, if we examine the historical context, we also find that this is referring to those who attacked the Muslims continuously.


************************************

If a country attacked the USA (like when Japan did) what would be the response of the Christian Americans?

Bernice: told I made a grammatical error. If that is all.. I've listened and I will aim to remember just for you and Pedro regarding whose and who's .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5hKQyFBzgI&

Artful Dodger: I would have prefered Obama kept his opinion inside the negotiation room, but it might be inevitable that they move back to pre 1967 borders.It will be alot of give and take, strategically championing a Palastinian negotiation point will pay off when it comes to something being requested of them.I do it all the time in business.I'll let the small concessions I make pile up onto my side, and then use them for a major concession on the other side.

Artful Dodger: And don't be fooled by Netenyahu's response.The more he elevates the value of the 1967 concession the more he will get in return.He didn't just fall off a matzoh ball truck.This whole event may have been strategically planned

Artful Dodger:

> Obama sides with the terrorists against Israel. What a shameful president. He is a disgrace to America.

Why? Because he wants Israel to go to the borders the UN had given to them in the first place? I think the shameful thing is that nobody cares about what happens to Palestinians. Israel had its borders set by the UN. They might be justified in saying that they need some sort of buffer zone against their neighbors, but in reality it is all about ownership of land and water resources.

What about Palestinians? Have they not lived in that land for thousands of years too? Were they not driven out of their homes and their land to carve out Israel? If Palestinians are to live in exile for the rest of eternity, they should at least have some land to live in. People forget that Palestinians became militant as a result of being driven out of their homeland.

Of course, as a Christian you must know that Jesus was born in Palestine. But then, nobody cares that those descendants of the same culture as that of Jesus have their homes bulldozed by Israel's military.

Übergeek 바둑이: The Jewish exodus from Arab and Muslim countries was a mass departure of Jews, primarily of Sephardi and Mizrahi background, from Arab and Muslim countries, in the 20th century. Though Jewish migration from Middle Eastern and North African communities began in the late 19th century, it did not become significant until the 1948 Arab-Israeli War.


From 1948 until the early 1970s, 800,000-1,000,000 Jews left, fled, or were expelled from their homes in Arab countries; 260,000 of them reached Israel between 1948 and 1951; and 600,000 by 1972. Lebanon was the only Arab country to see an increase in its Jewish population after 1948, which was due to an influx of refugees from other Arab countries. However, by the 1970s the Jewish community of Lebanon too dwindled due to hostilities of the Lebanese Civil War.

The reasons for the exodus included persecution, antisemitism, political instability, and the desire to fulfill Zionist yearnings. A significant proportion of Jews left due to political insecurity and the rise of Arab nationalism. Many were required to sell, abandon, or smuggle their property out of the countries they were fleeing. By 2002 Jews from Arab countries and their descendants constituted about 40% of Israel's population.

Additional 200,000 Jews from non-Arab Muslim countries left their homes due to increasing insecurity and growing hostility since 1948. Many Iranian and Kurdish Jews fled and abandoned their property in fear, that they would remain hostages of hostile regimes. When combined all together, as much as 37% of Jews in Islamic countries - the Arab world, Turkey, Iran and Afghanistan, left for Israel between May 1948 and the beginning of 1952. They amounted for 56% of the total immigration to the newly founded State of Israel.

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Übergeek 바둑이: Jewish neighborhoods in Egypt, Yemen, Lebanon, Tunisia, and Morocco, burning synagogues and assaulting residents. A pogrom in Tripoli, Libya, left 18 Jews dead and 25 injured; the survivors were herded into detention centers. Of Egypt's 4,000 Jews, 800 were arrested, including the chief rabbis of both Cairo and Alexandria, and their property sequestered by the government. The ancient communities of Damascus and Baghdad were placed under house arrest, their leaders imprisoned and fined. A total of 7,000 Jews were expelled, many with merely a satchel.[111]

wiki source

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMchDxxFmRQ

Is it true that 40% of American Christians want the end of the world just to be right? Would you want those who believe as such to have their finger on the big red button!!

In the long term regarding Israel and Palestine.. some stability needs to be found/made so that both sides of the conflict feel safe. The alternative is a long term (as it has been) conflict over the right to have a place you can call home.

With all the deaths, prosecution from both sides I would have thought that if the people were asked honestly (not the politicians) they would rather have peace than another 50 years of distrust, fear and wastage of resources.

The USA could do with saving the billions they donate to Israel each year in military aid.

(V): I agree,both sides have valid issues to be addressed.Moving forward respectfully towards eachother is the only path to a solution, not pissing contests

Tuesday: Better get a Brazilian wax, things might get a lil hairy

Tuesday: I have crazy glue gloves to attach to the ankles of those flying towards the sky

Tuesday: I should be fine as long as I don't pick a leper

Tuesday: Well my key that I got to the revolving door better still work... Or a certain personification of our bad natures is gonna be sorry. I have Loki to watch my back

The Col: Or someone who has a bad case of too many beans.

Tuesday: Just say you are a friend of Adam Young. Thanks to a foul up the anti christ went to a typical English family rather than a prominent American diplomat.

He doesn't like the idea of the world ending.

The Col:

Regarding the Second Intifada (uprising), I found the following snippet. The uprising started in September of 2000 and is considered to have ended in November of 2004 when Yasser Arafat died and the new Palestinian Autrhority president Mahmoud Abbas declared an end to the violence in 2005.

"The death toll, including both military and civilian, is estimated to be 6500 Palestinians and over 1100 Israelis, as well as 64 foreigners."

Regarding overall casualties of war, it is difficult to get accurate numbers, but I found the following:

According to the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs, from 1987 to 2010:
Palestianians killed over the age of 18: 7978
Palestinians killed under the age of 18: 1620
Israelis killed over the age of 18: 1503
Israelis killed under the age of 18: 142

This does not include people wounded. I am trying to find better numbers for that, but obviously, more Palestinians than Israelis have been killed. The number being roughly 6 Palestinians dead for every 1 Israeli killed.

This is in line with Israel's superior military force, which is fully armed with tanks, helicopters and war planes. If anything, it is surprising that the numbers are not as skewed as America's wars in which casualties are easily over 100 to 1 (obviously due to America's superior naval and air power).

The situation is sad because both Jews and Arabs are Semitic peoples. Both have been sharing that land for thousands of years, and have been in conflict for thousands of years. Very often the origins of this violence are a case of the chicken and the egg, nobody pointing exactly at when the violence started. All we can point out is to triggers that erupted violence in an already very tense situation. For example, Ariel Sharon visited the Al Aqsa mosque and that triggered the Second Intifada.

Antisemites everywhere must love this conflict. Here are two Semitic peoples killing each other and unable to put aside hate and intolerance in favor of peace. Our western governments are not helping matters by favoring Israel in a one-sided manner. I think it is an issue in which it has become impossible to be impartial. Israel accuses Palestinians of being terrorists. Palestinians accuse Israelis of being fascists. Our western governments want to protect Israel from its hostile neighbors. Those hostile neighbors want to protect Palestinians from Israel. Nobody wants to compromise or make concesions. As always, civilians get squeezed and killed in between.

Tuesday: Especially if it has a good rope hanging from a tree... to swing in for a good bombing

Übergeek 바둑이: .. Not all America's wars. I doubt those ratio's were obtained in the first half of the 20th .... hypothetically a war against the USSR would have been a lose.. lose.

"Nobody wants to compromise or make concessions."

Seen to I think more.

Yet another Christian "prophet" has predicted wrong on the end of the world/universe. Seemingly happy at the death of billions/trillions/zillions throughout the 'cosmos' by the hand of God.

One would suggest to such Christian sects, hell bent on everyone but a 'chosen few' dying... and making a big profit on sales on how to avoid hell.


... to have a beer and relax... and to start living.

Tuesday: With respect to the interpretation held by these guys... A certain faithful few will go to heaven, the rest of us who do not believe as these faithful few are hellbound.

It seems that the interpretation held, also says the whole cosmos(not just the world) is going to end as well. Any other life out there is facing being 'raptured' along with us humans.

.. That is what they were predicting. That the guy at the centre of these predictions got it wrong in 1994. Still so it is reported many folk gave up work and went onto to prepare for the end!!

(V): Hear Hear!

Artful Dodger:

That would be brilliant. A philanderer who still brags of having slept with over 4,600 women. It sounds like women welcoming him to his concerts with "open legs" is a very Christian thing to do. A man who said that he is an Israeli and he feels like a stranger in America. I am sure he would be very patriotic and put America's interests ahead of those of Israel. I think I get the joke. President Trump and Vicepresident Simmons would be a sure winner next election.

Artful Dodger:

"The Nazi's had made their alliances with Islam".

No offense, but this guy should get some history lessons. Turkey made alliances with the Nazis. Islam had nothing to do with it. Turkey hated the Soviet Union because Georgia and Armenia became a part of the Soviet Unionand Bulgaria became communist. Those other "Islamic" countries that joined the axis did so because they were fed up with the British and French empires abusing and exploiting them. Nice history lesson Bill.

Artful Dodger:

> A petition is presented to liberals to sign. It's a petition that would prohibit conservatives access to a voice on the radio and TV.

If the Communist Party decided to create its own news network, would you think it is acceptable? If not, then Fox News should be renamed the Fox Neoconservative Right Wing Commentary Network.

I think anybody should be free to have a news netork, even communists and nazis. After all, we are all for free speech. People sign petitions without even lookingor thinking at what they are about. Of course, right wingers never put any petitions out there. They are without reproach.